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praying to...

Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Koldo said:
Faith that some of us do not need food and water at all, as they starve to death?
Faith that some of us do not need to be healthy, as they undergo amyotrophic lateral sclerosis?

This certainly requires a lot of faith.



Do you really want to go along this road?
It says that we are given what we ask for.
If an amputee asks for a missing limb to be restored, it means it will be done.
Click to expand...

Silly retort is silly.

It's a foregone conclusion, in my educated mind anyway, that the things being asked for are within the realm of common sense. I don't think it's common sense to ask that an end-stage cancer patient be miraculously healed, or that an amputated limb be restored.

Sure, ask and it shall be given to you, but God also has to be the final arbiter of what you need, though you may not understand it.
 
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Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Jainarayan said:
Silly retort is silly.

It's a foregone conclusion, in my educated mind anyway, that the things being asked for are within the realm of common sense. I don't think it's common sense to ask that an end-stage cancer patient be miraculously healed, or that an amputated limb be restored.
Click to expand...

Why must the things being asked for be within the realm of "common sense"?

Jainarayan said:
Sure, ask and it shall be given to you, but God also has to be the final arbiter of what you need, though you may not understand it.
Click to expand...

Read again what is said in that quote from the bible:

''9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?"

"11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father
which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

Bread ( food ) is a good gift. The scripture says that good gifts will be given if they are asked for. Therefore, food ( bread ) will be given if asked for. So, why do some people starve to death?
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
waitasec said:
no not really...maybe god thinks the amputee depends too much on their limbs and needs to depend on god instead.

:sarcastic
Click to expand...

Or there's a lesson to be learned. Maybe these lessons are meant for us.
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Koldo said:
Why must the things being asked for be within the realm of "common sense"?



Read again what is said in that quote from the bible:

''9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?"

"11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father
which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

Bread ( food ) is a good gift. The scripture says that good gifts will be given if they are asked for. Therefore, food ( bread ) will be given if asked for. So, why do some people starve to death?
Click to expand...

:facepalm: Do you know what a metaphor is? Or are you playing word games? My take on it...

No. Yes.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Jainarayan said:
:facepalm: Do you know what a metaphor is? Or are you playing word games? My take on it...

No. Yes.
Click to expand...

That quote says that 'your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him'. And it recognizes that bread ( food ) is a good thing by saying 'whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?' and 'If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children'.

There is no metaphor on Matthew 7:9-11.
 
S

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
Bread ( food ) is a good gift. The scripture says that good gifts will be given if they are asked for. Therefore, food ( bread ) will be given if asked for. So, why do some people starve to death?
Click to expand...

Maybe they're asking the wrong deity. They should shop around more. It's unlikely a war deity would be concerned with feeding the hungry anyway. Or perhaps they're just not kissing his behind hard enough? Gods tend to have big egos.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Jainarayan said:
Or there's a lesson to be learned. Maybe these lessons are meant for us.
Click to expand...

i highly doubt it. **** happens and it's up to us to decide what to do with it.

unless you are willing to concede that there are people who never lost a limb or a loved one until much later in life and who are doing well financially and emotionally as a white collar criminal have nothing to learn
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Katzpur said:
I can't imagine praying to "some imaginary deity." On the other hand, exactly what would you pray to the sun, the earth of radiation for? Do you see them as cognizant of your concerns?
Click to expand...

right, who would do such a thing...??? :shrug:
certainly not i.
 
The Sum of Awe

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Jainarayan said:
"We have an idea of how... " Ah, so we don't know for sure!
Click to expand...

The idea of how it is created is supported quite a bit.

What is a brain? Where defines a brain? How much neural activity is required for an organism to be considered having a brain? Do you know for a fact an ameoba is not conscious? The party line is that it reacts to stimuli... is that really so? Do we know that's all it is?
Click to expand...

You can tell by its actions that compare it to reacting to stimuli, conscious, or unconscious.

You know this? How!? Neuroscientists and theoretical physicists are not even sure what is conscious and what is not, where consciousness comes from, and where it goes. Quantum entanglement and consciousness as part of the universe... ?
Click to expand...

I'm not the only one who knows this, neuroscientists and biologists both would agree it is a process from the brain, we don't know what the process is, but that doesn't mean we don't know it's caused by the brain.

Again, still, yet... you are working within an anthropomorphic frame of reference, which I utterly reject. I'll go with the works and opinions of degreed scientists, and what my gut tells me.
Click to expand...

I think you are, as you are the one saying the universe is conscious.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Jainarayan said:
That's the point. "What, if anything do I learn from this?"
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that has nothing to do with god...
nothing at all. isn't that an interesting thing to point out...those that pray and those that do not are still at the mercy of their POV and willingness to grow from any given situation. to suggest that praying some how ups the odds of anything requires a level of hubris...it's like saying...
my hope is more meaningful if i pray....
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
waitasec said:
that has nothing to do with god...
nothing at all. isn't that an interesting thing to point out...those that pray and those that do not are still at the mercy of their POV and willingness to grow from any given situation. to suggest that praying some how ups the odds of anything requires a level of hubris...it's like saying...
my hope is more meaningful if i pray....
Click to expand...

That's your belief and you have a right to it, as I do to mine. With that, I'm off this Mobius strip.
 
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