Prejudice against Qur'an.

[Unification]

Heaven forbid you take them at their word. Why would they possibly know what their source texts are saying?
You are essentially saying that for 1400 years Muslims don't have the foggiest idea what their most sacred text is telling them.

Thank goodness you have come along to explain it for us.

That requires belief and faith and the source within me discerns that mankind has used these texts to create all sorts of havoc for themselves and others.

I am no different than any "Muslim," what is within them is within me. Same source. The texts are about the human being.

The human being is sacred, there is no such thing as literal sacred land, sacred cities, sacred texts.

Thank goodness you have come along to make excuses for it.

 

[YmirGF]

That requires belief and faith and the source within me discerns that mankind has used these texts to create all sorts of havoc for themselves and others.

I am no different than any "Muslim," what is within them is within me. Same source. The texts are about the human being.

The human being is sacred, there is no such thing as literal sacred land, sacred cities, sacred texts.

Thank goodness you have come along to make excuses for it.

I can rent you one of these puppies so you can dig even faster.

 

[Unification]

I can rent you one of these puppies so you can dig even faster.

Lol, typical reply. Rent it for yourself and dig up the truth. . although I will warn... it may hurt and offend your comfort. It may quake and rattle the brain a bit.

 

[YmirGF]

Lol, typical reply. Rent it for yourself and dig up the truth. . although I will warn... it may hurt and offend your comfort. It may quake and rattle the brain a bit.

Look, all you have shown is that these warped texts can be interpreted in virtually any way one wishes. That is NOT particularly meaningful or helpful given that Muslims themselves to do see the texts as you are attempting to portray them. It's like me reinterpreting the words of Jesus or Buddha in nuanced ways to further my own narrative while blithely ignoring how the majority of thinkers have interpreted those same words and writings for eons. I wouldn't expect too many people to take me seriously.

 

[Unification]

Look, all you have shown is that these warped texts can be interpreted in virtually any way one wishes. That is NOT particularly meaningful or helpful given that Muslims themselves to do see the texts as you are attempting to portray them. It's like me reinterpreting the words of Jesus or Buddha in nuanced ways to further my own narrative while blithely ignoring how the majority of thinkers have interpreted those same words and writings for eons.

Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad are the same things and they are not exoteric to any human being.

Not so, there are only so many things the human being has in common and they are within, metaphysically, and consciously.

Again, change is not negative... radically altering and shifting conscious minds and hearts is very positive. I don't abide by the "since they've been interpreted a way for eons that must mean what they are saying." That is comfort and laziness. One here, another there, and more and more will see and understand, awaken to what they were once blinded to.

 

[YmirGF]

Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad are the same things and they are not exoteric to any human being.

If what they had to say was within the grasp of all one wonders why they needed to come and say what they did. Obviously, they knew something your average garden gnome did not.

Just a knitpick: I never put Buddha and Christ on par with Muhammad. It would never occur to me to do so. I do question the judgement of those who think nothing of doing just that.

Not so, there are only so many things the human being has in common and they are within, metaphysically, and consciously.

Except where they differ, of course.

Again, change is not negative... radically altering and shifting conscious minds and hearts is very positive.

Perhaps in the long term, but catharsis is often accompanied by periods of great upheaval. Jus' sayin'...

I don't abide by the "since they've been interpreted a way for eons that must mean what they are saying." That is comfort and laziness. One here, another there, and more and more will see and understand, awaken to what they were once blinded to.

Saying that Muslims are blind to what they source text says is probably not going to win many over to your side of the conversation. Good luck, though.

 

[Unification]

If what they had to say was within the grasp of all one wonders why they needed to come and say what they did. Obviously, they knew something your average garden gnome did not.

Just a knitpick: I never put Buddha and Christ on par with Muhammad. It would never occur to me to do so. I do question the judgement of those who think nothing of doing just that.

Except where they differ, of course.

Perhaps in the long term, but catharsis is often accompanied by periods of great upheaval. Jus' sayin'...

Saying that Muslims are blind to what they source text says is probably not going to win many over to your side of the conversation. Good luck, though.

Well, the tree and garden is our dendritic brain and nerves. Which all human beings have. We can plant exoteric Bodhi trees, knowledge trees all that we want... but let's face it... knowledge only resides within.

Words that do not pass because they apply to within any human being, ancient and present as we all have always had the same inner workings and experiences. Applying them literally, outwardly, or historically are silly. We live now and in present times. There is no profit or inner growth worrying about the past and having knowledge of myths and superstitions that are not historical.

The messenger is irrelevant, the message is relevant.

Thank you, I don't have an image to protect nor am I am man pleaser and comforter when it comes to interpretations that have weakened mankind.

Truth is painful, and yes upheaval just is.

 

[roger1440]

True.
Also in the NT Jesus says " "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." That would exclude most of the world.

In most writings regarded as scripture, there can be found offensive things.
This is the danger of taking every word as 'truth'.
IMO, people should have their own realisations and not borrow them from any book or person.

Then again, the Gospel of John wasn't written for "most of the world". It was written for Jews.

 

[outhouse]

Then again, the Gospel of John wasn't written for "most of the world". It was written for Jews.

No.

It was written for Hellenistic Proselytes and gentiles in the Diaspora who were divorcing Judaism and had already separated from it.

 

[Parsimony]

@Gharib I don't think you answered my question before. Do you think religious beliefs other than Islam should be tolerated? Do you think it is okay to be prejudiced against non-Islamic religions? Do you think that government should remain neutral about religion or should it show favor to a particular religion?

 

[Gharib]

Gharib, the prevalent attitude in the west is a gross ignorance of Islam and what it does and does not teach, without even getting to the the myriad of nuances found in the opinions of your so-called "scholars". The vast majority have never even seen a Qur'an, let alone read one from cover to cover, in any language, let alone studied it for years on end. The point is that the overwhelming majority of Muslims believe the Qur'an is the literal word of god. Christians can easily dismiss what is in their Bible as being the fables of a bygone era, mythological tales created to explain complex aspects of human nature and the human condition. Due to the nature of Islamic scholarship and how opinions are given credence, Muslims are not quite so unlimited in their ability to be critical of their single source text, though the hadiths are a different animal altogether.

In regards to seeing Muslims as being terrorists, it is extremely unfortunate that so many have had the religion they love hijacked by a lunatic fringe that has a penchant for behaving badly. If only there were not so many groups to cite and so many terrible incidents - in recent memory - for people to draw on. For example, as soon as I heard of the shootings in San Bernadino, I immediately assumed that the shooters were Muslims. My reasoning was simple. There is virtually no other group of people that is giving rise to this type of virulent strain of killers. Though it is important to remember that all Muslims are not fanatical terrorists, it is also fairly accurate to say that a good number of terrorists these days, sadly, consider themselves to be devout Muslims - regardless of what others think or say about them. In no way should people hold average Muslims responsible for these acts and violence or acts of retribution against average Muslims should be dealt with severely.

Personally, I don't know what the answer is, Gharib. I respect you and I wonder if you have any ideas?

Sorry for the late reply, but good post. I like your thoughts on this.

A lot of what you've said is true and I think just as all Muslims or our faith shouldn't be viewed in bad light, I guess the same applies to non-Muslims in that it is unfair to expect them to all know about Islam and it's teachings. Which is why I think it's all in the media. Personally I do not see their agenda as being just something which grabs attention and generates revenue, it is an outright witch hunt against Islam and Muslims.

I agree that the state should not interfere with the media, but it's come to a point where the media is tearing up communities and turning people against each other. For this reason I think governments should interfere.

 

[Gharib]

I am more than happy to admit that a significant portion of the west is probably prejudiced against the Qu'ran and Islam. I am also comfortable admitting that the media has contributed to this perception as well. Muslims can only do so much and I think this is probably going to be a very long term battle over religious identity as globalisation, secularism and religious orthodoxy collide.

A major part of the problem is the simplistic "good versus evil" moral narrative in the west (and possibly amonmgst the muslim world) which means we omitt our own failings whilst condemn everyone elses as characteristic. This is not a problem that is unique to Islam, as historically the same pattern has been played out before. it is characteristic of western paranoia of "alien" beliefs as being of the devil (though now we use secular language, often of mental illness to describe the source of evil). I genuinely don't know how to turn the tide of Islamophobia but I probably should sit down and read some religious texts to know what is actually in them. I might at least be able to help Muslims on RF better as they don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush. no religion or belief system is entirely good, because no human being is either. our beliefs reflect that our moral fallability.

Thank you for your nice words. I do agree with what you've said. Islam has actually been placed under a very big and bright spotlight so the least people can and should do is to be a little curious so as to want to read about it and form their own opinion as an informed non-Muslim. It's like Christianity, I never knew much about it other than what other Muslims used to say while I was growing up. But now that I can speak to Christians and understand their beliefs how they see them, I have come to understand that a lot of what I've heard as a child, although they served as mockery, were just nonsense. I think that everyone should at least have that little drive and curiosity to learn about things on their own rather than take it from the media.

 

[CATSISS]

What's so bad about that verse, and there are also many versions. You're doing the same thing... Calling the disbelievers in peace, purity, and mercy as the worst of living creatures. (ISIS members.)

Either u have to be a blind muslim or u support ISIS to say that verse isnt bad and if u are a non muslim that verse itself will backfire at u,so its useless to defend that verse cuz if u are a non muslim u are gonna get killed as well(rational person).

 

[CATSISS]

Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad are the same things and they are not exoteric to any human being.

Not so, there are only so many things the human being has in common and they are within, metaphysically, and consciously.

Again, change is not negative... radically altering and shifting conscious minds and hearts is very positive. I don't abide by the "since they've been interpreted a way for eons that must mean what they are saying." That is comfort and laziness. One here, another there, and more and more will see and understand, awaken to what they were once blinded to.

Anyways buddha is not a god he never claimed to be and never will be he is just a teacher,do your research first.

 

[Crypto2015]

Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad are the same things and they are not exoteric to any human being.

Not so, there are only so many things the human being has in common and they are within, metaphysically, and consciously.

Again, change is not negative... radically altering and shifting conscious minds and hearts is very positive. I don't abide by the "since they've been interpreted a way for eons that must mean what they are saying." That is comfort and laziness. One here, another there, and more and more will see and understand, awaken to what they were once blinded to.

Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad taught diametrically opposed things.

 

[Unification]

Anyways buddha is not a god he never claimed to be and never will be he is just a teacher,do your research first.

A god can be seen as one being and becoming. I know it's difficult to de-condition our common alternate perceptions of a mere irrelevant word.

Anyways, I don't claim that Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad were ever real historical figures.

 

[Unification]

Jesus, Buddha and Muhammad taught diametrically opposed things.

It's easy to see it that way when viewed literally and historically.

I see the same goals, with different language and words used... go to war within and destroy and eradicate everything in mind that causes suffering and harm..deny those things, after that liberation/salvation/freedom from suffering occurs. One going from hell(suffering) to happiness(heaven.) One going from an enslaved mind to a free mind.
Same paths and ways.

It's difficult to decondition the mind due to how instilled and how the crowd and majority has taught such about Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad. Destroying our own perceptions are painful, while the rebuilding/altering is painless. Man has this compulsive need to see everything literal and historical and make exoteric images out of everything and anything with texts that never happened literally or historically and are mythological.

 

[outhouse]

It's easy to see it that way when viewed literally and historically.

I see the same goals, with different language and words used... go to war within and destroy and eradicate everything in mind that causes suffering and harm..deny those things, after that liberation/salvation/freedom from suffering occurs. One going from hell(suffering) to happiness(heaven.) One going from an enslaved mind to a free mind.
Same paths and ways.

It's difficult to decondition the mind due to how instilled and how the crowd and majority has taught such about Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad. Destroying our own perceptions are painful, while the rebuilding/altering is painless. Man has this compulsive need to see everything literal and historical and make exoteric images out of everything and anything with texts that never happened literally or historically and are mythological.

Wow, a lot of word salad and no dressing, that is no way even addresses the context of the topic you replied to.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Did Christian Extremists or Christians linked to Terrorism threaten the makers of the video? It strange that they deleted.

I gues they received threats from Christian Terrorist Groups.

 

[CATSISS]

It's easy to see it that way when viewed literally and historically.

I see the same goals, with different language and words used... go to war within and destroy and eradicate everything in mind that causes suffering and harm..deny those things, after that liberation/salvation/freedom from suffering occurs. One going from hell(suffering) to happiness(heaven.) One going from an enslaved mind to a free mind.
Same paths and ways.

It's difficult to decondition the mind due to how instilled and how the crowd and majority has taught such about Jesus, Buddah, and Muhammad. Destroying our own perceptions are painful, while the rebuilding/altering is painless. Man has this compulsive need to see everything literal and historical and make exoteric images out of everything and anything with texts that never happened literally or historically and are mythological.

Buddha actually taught to even sacrafice ourselves to any beings animals,plants 0r whatever,while muhammad ****s a goat,underaged child and basically slay evryone(im an atheist not buddhist)