Prejudice against Qur'an.

[CATSISS]

I already answered that.... whatever is causing a human to suffer... destroy, slay, and eradicate those abstract things.

It is better to slay those things within someone rather than allow them to linger and consume.

If anger consumes someone and has drove them away from peace, slay and drive out that anger. Anger is raping and enslaving the mind.

It is no different than the bible, it's not referring to literal heritage Jews or Israelites... just as the Quran isn't referring to literal Muslims.

The problem is how do you change an extremist that has been brainwashed since he could speak that has beaten his wife,discriminate others and killed for the sake of his imaginary leader?,they got to be a computer so u can reprogram them.

 

[Unification]

Oddly, I found it to perpetuate a serious misunderstanding of human nature, due largely to the likely mental illness(es) that its writer probably suffered from. (And yes, I have read several translations in English - from cover to cover.)

That serious misunderstanding of human nature is the human nature itself still reading it literally and historically and how they already to perceive it to be.

The entire problem in the first place.

 

[CATSISS]

I already answered that.... whatever is causing a human to suffer... destroy, slay, and eradicate those abstract things.

It is better to slay those things within someone rather than allow them to linger and consume.

If anger consumes someone and has drove them away from peace, slay and drive out that anger. Anger is raping and enslaving the mind.

It is no different than the bible, it's not referring to literal heritage Jews or Israelites... just as the Quran isn't referring to literal Muslims.

I rather just destroy all quran than try and waste my time on changing extremists minds,which is imposible.

 

[Augustus]

but im still better of with the cherry pickers,let me give u an example of a violent passage in the quran and u tell me how not to take it literally " “And slay them wherever ye find them(non believers), and drive them out of the places when they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…"

That's not a literal reading. It's an exegetic reading, that's why it has [brackets]. Also literally 'drive them out from where they drove you', is a limited command. A literal reading does not make it what you think it does.

Consume not your goods between you in vanity; neither proffer it to the judges, that you may sinfully consume a portion of other men's goods, and that wittingly. (188)They will question thee concerning the new moons. Say: 'They are appointed times for the people, and the Pilgrimage.' It is not piety to come to the houses from the backs of them; but piety is to be godfearing; so come to the houses by their doors, and fear God; haply so you will prosper. (189)And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors. (190)And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them -- such is the recompense of unbelievers -- (191)but if they give over, surely God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.(192)Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is God's; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers. (193)The holy month for the holy month; holy things demand retaliation. Whoso commits aggression against you, do you commit aggression against him like as he has committed against you, and fear you God, and know that God is with the godfearing.

Now some people do interpret these verses to be commands to violent jihad, but it relies on an exegetic reading, not a literal one.

 

[CATSISS]

That serious misunderstanding of human nature is the human nature itself still reading it literally and historically and how they already to perceive it to be.

The entire problem in the first place.

Even the writer is a psyco,what do u expect from the followers?

 

[CATSISS]

That's not a literal reading. It's an exegetic reading, that's why it has [brackets]. Also literally 'drive them out from where they drove you', is a limited command. A literal reading does not make it what you think it does.

Consume not your goods between you in vanity; neither proffer it to the judges, that you may sinfully consume a portion of other men's goods, and that wittingly. (188)They will question thee concerning the new moons. Say: 'They are appointed times for the people, and the Pilgrimage.' It is not piety to come to the houses from the backs of them; but piety is to be godfearing; so come to the houses by their doors, and fear God; haply so you will prosper. (189)And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors. (190)And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them -- such is the recompense of unbelievers -- (191)but if they give over, surely God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.(192)Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is God's; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers. (193)The holy month for the holy month; holy things demand retaliation. Whoso commits aggression against you, do you commit aggression against him like as he has committed against you, and fear you God, and know that God is with the godfearing.

Now some people do interpret these verses to be commands to violent jihad, but it relies on an exegetic reading, not a literal one.

What about the part that says "slay them where ever ye find them"hows that not cruel?its clearly written.

 

[Unification]

The problem is how do you change an extremist that has been brainwashed since he could speak that has beaten his wife,discriminate others and killed for the sake of his imaginary leader?,they got to be a computer so u can reprogram them.

There actually is and there has been extensive research and testing of it using light and energy to alter cells. But then they'd all have to be captured which won't work.

Patience and teaching the book in alternative ways. Will lead to gradual neurological plasticity.

It'd be nice to be able to burn all of the texts, but they all exist on the Internet.
The best solution would be to teach it in more peaceable ways because it's not going anywhere.

I honestly think that all countries should pull out all and any vested interest in the Middle East and let them do what they do while focusing on protecting and fortifying their own countries home turf. It's their religious wars, we should stay out of it. They'll end up killing most of each other. It's unfortunate but our butting in, support for Israel, etc. has contributed heavily and discreetly to these issues.

As for the doctrination in the UK, Europe, US... we should continue to teach reform in alternative ways and embrace the Muslims who are of peace and want reform.

 

[Augustus]

What about the part that says "slay them where ever ye find them"hows that not cruel?its clearly written.

And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors. (190)And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then,

Jihadis use these verses to support violence, I don't deny that. It's not simple literalism though, most of Islamic teachings rely on exegesis/apologetics and are thus subjective.

 

[outhouse]

most of Islamic teachings rely on exegesis/

And there is the whole problem.

Its not credible exegesis. And there is not one standard followed by all.

So its a free for all with no proper guidance or control.

 

[YmirGF]

That serious misunderstanding of human nature is the human nature itself still reading it literally and historically and how they already to perceive it to be.

The entire problem in the first place.

So... your assertion that the Qur'an is not a problem is a superficial opinion at best then, based on your own analysis above.

 

[YmirGF]

And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors. (190)And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then,

Jihadis use these verses to support violence, I don't deny that. It's not simple literalism though, most of Islamic teachings rely on exegesis/apologetics and are thus subjective.

Given that the Islamic State is now under attack from several agents gives them all the ammo they need to say they are fighting a defensive war.

 

[outhouse]

So... you assertion that the Qur'an is not a problem is a superficial opinion at best then, based on your own analysis above.

he has admitted in other threads his opinion is emotional based over knowledge.

 

[Unification]

So... your assertion that the Qur'an is not a problem is a superficial opinion at best then, based on your own analysis above.

The interpretations, exegesis are the problem.

 

[Unification]

he has admitted in other threads his opinion is emotional based over knowledge.

Right, you false witness on others frequently... giving you not much credibility that you desperately desire, if you lie about others... most of the things you say are also likely lies.

 

[YmirGF]

The interpretations, exegesis are the problem.

It's not like they don't have pretty rich material to work with. The 1400 years of exegesis didn't rise out of a vacuum.

 

[Unification]

It's not like they don't have pretty rich material to work with. The 1400 years of exegesis didn't rise out of a vacuum.

That not the point. You are making something said and turning it into more than what it is.

Material and exegesis are separate.

Then there are animal natured human's interpreting the material in animalistic ways.

 

[YmirGF]

That not the point. You are making something said and turning it into more than what it is.

Material and exegesis are separate.

Then there are animal natured human's interpreting the matierial in animalistic ways.

So, what's your point? Do we simply ignore the rather pathetic parts of the Qur'an and praise the Kumbaya portions? It's almost like you haven't actually read the damned thing, LOL.

 

[Unification]

So, what's your point? Do we simply ignore the rather pathetic parts of the Qur'an and praise the Kumbaya portions?

They are only pathetic if they are interpreted as pathetic, literal, and historical.

There are nothing about texts that are "praiseworthy."

 

[YmirGF]

They are only pathetic if they are interpreted as pathetic, literal, and historical.

There are nothing about texts that are "praiseworthy."

That's all very well for you to say and think, but Muslims themselves, overwhelmingly believe the Qur'an is the LITERAL word of God. THAT is problematic. The commentaries, after the fact, by so-called Muslim "scholars" simply add fuel to the fires. So, because it is seen as being the literal word of god, that is why you have so many wild and crazy interpretations. That feature goes directly back to the source text and underscores it being the problem.

 

[Shusha]

I rather just destroy all quran than try and waste my time on changing extremists minds,which is imposible.

And the problem with this attitude is that it is no different than the attitude of those radicals, like IS, whom we are trying to combat. Tolerance and respect for other faiths does not include destroying them or their holy scriptures. It does include working together with all of humanity to find useful, morally upright understandings of all scriptures and all faiths. And, yes, that is the harder path. And, yes, that will require time and effort to change extremist thinking. But it is the right way through this.