Prejudice against Qur'an.

[CATSISS]

Same root word.

If u suppose islam is peaceful,can u give me any example of islam being peaceful other than helping exclusively other muslims and not killing everybody else?.

 

[CATSISS]

maybe younger. we don't know, the whole 9 is like what they state to make it more publically acceptable.

Well if he ****ed a girl that hasnt even gone through period yet,he is a sick pedophil.

 

[CATSISS]

Fundamental, not all.

If u ever asked a street preacher or any hate preacher i bet they will say they are fundamentalist and they will say you are goin to hell.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Christianity is not a political movement in itself.

But it became one fairly early on. Christianity began espousing the doctrine of divine authority to rule pretty early on - first established when Paul said 'There is no order save God has ordained it' - and later when the Church became the state Roman religion it began saying the Emperor could only gain the throne if he received a Christian coronation. The Church made itself political and Christianity hasn't really changed since then. The acts of Dominionists are those of people seeking to entrench Christianity more deeply in to American politics.

It's also worth noting that the current UK Monarch is also the Head of the Church of England & Defender of the Faith.

On the contrary, Jesus said that his kingdom was not of this world and ran away from those who wanted to crown him as their king.

And if Christians had actually remembered this lesson instead of what actually happened historically, that would have been absolutely great. But they didn't - and Christianity is now a political force as a result.

Islam is a political movement in itself. Muhammad’s ultimate goal was the establishment of a global caliphate. He actively pursued this goal by waging warfare on its contemporaries. Moreover, all Muslims are commanded by the Qur’an to strive for the establishment of the global caliphate using all the means that are available to them, including violence.

I concur.

I had never heard about the Christian “extremist” groups that you mentioned.

Argument from ignorance - go look them up.

I bet that most people haven’t either.

Argument from ignorance and argument from numbers fallacies.

You know why? Because they are a small minority that are not supported by the Christian scriptures.

And plenty of Muslims say the same about Islamist groups. Considering Christian groups that promote Homophobia in Africa use anti-gay-sex verses from the Pentateuch to promote their position, I'd say they are supported by Christian scriptures.

Moreover, they rarely, if ever, engage in violence.

And that's burying your head in the sand. More terrorist attacks in America are perpetrated by Christians than by Muslims. Christian attacks on abortion clinics and staff occur far more often than Muslim attacks generally.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthr...threat-to-u-s-freedom-than-islamic-extremism/

From the link above: "Since September 11, 2001, there have been at least 13 attacks against abortion clinics in the US by Christian terrorists, while only 5 attacks linked to Islamic extremism.

So Christian terrorism certainly exists. Again, look up the anti-seleka movement in the Central African Republic.

Compare this to Islamic organizations such ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaeda, and Al-Nusra. Everyone has heard of them. Why? Because they represent the opinions of the most renowned Islamic commentators and follow the example of Muhammad to the letter. Also, they routinely engage in extreme violence.

Because Christian terrorism in America is hardly ever covered outside of the States compared to Islamist terrorism.

More than 80% of the foetuses with Down Syndrome are aborted in the UK. Google it.

I'm looking but I'm not getting this 80% figure you appear to have made up.

In England & Wales foetuses can be aborted on 'ground E' (the likelihood that they'll be born handicapped). The proportion of ground E abortions was:

• 2014: 3,099 abortions (2% of total abortions performed). Of that 3,099; Down's Syndrome was the most commonly reported abnormality: 662 (21%). So that's not 80%.

Here's where I'm citing the statistics from: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/433437/2014_Commentary__5_.pdf page 14, paragraph 2.19.

• 2013: 2,732 abortions were carried out on ground E in 2013. Of that number, 1,301 (or 48%) of those were on the basis of genetic defect. Down's Syndrome abortions made up 590 (or 22%) of that 1,301. That's not 80% either.

Here's where I'm citing the 2013 statistics from: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ortion_Statistics__England_and_Wales_2013.pdf page 12, paragraph 2.14.

Do you actually have a reliable source for abortion statistics? Because 'Google it' can so easily backfire on you.

 

[Crypto2015]

But it became one fairly early on. Christianity began espousing the doctrine of divine authority to rule pretty early on - first established when Paul said 'There is no order save God has ordained it' - and later when the Church became the state Roman religion it began saying the Emperor could only gain the throne if he received a Christian coronation. The Church made itself political and Christianity hasn't really changed since then. The acts of Dominionists are those of people seeking to entrench Christianity more deeply in to American politics.

It's also worth noting that the current UK Monarch is also the Head of the Church of England & Defender of the Faith.




And if Christians had actually remembered this lesson instead of what actually happened historically, that would have been absolutely great. But they didn't - and Christianity is now a political force as a result.




I concur.




Argument from ignorance - go look them up.




Argument from ignorance and argument from numbers fallacies.



And plenty of Muslims say the same about Islamist groups. Considering Christian groups that promote Homophobia in Africa use anti-gay-sex verses from the Pentateuch to promote their position, I'd say they are supported by Christian scriptures.




And that's burying your head in the sand. More terrorist attacks in America are perpetrated by Christians than by Muslims. Christian attacks on abortion clinics and staff occur far more often than Muslim attacks generally.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthr...threat-to-u-s-freedom-than-islamic-extremism/

From the link above: "Since September 11, 2001, there have been at least 13 attacks against abortion clinics in the US by Christian terrorists, while only 5 attacks linked to Islamic extremism.

So Christian terrorism certainly exists. Again, look up the anti-seleka movement in the Central African Republic.




Because Christian terrorism in America is hardly ever covered outside of the States compared to Islamist terrorism.




I'm looking but I'm not getting this 80% figure you appear to have made up.

In England & Wales foetuses can be aborted on 'ground E' (the likelihood that they'll be born handicapped). The proportion of ground E abortions was:

• 2014: 3,099 abortions (2% of total abortions performed). Of that 3,099; Down's Syndrome was the most commonly reported abnormality: 662 (21%). So that's not 80%.

Here's where I'm citing the statistics from: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ment_data/file/433437/2014_Commentary__5_.pdf page 14, paragraph 2.19.

• 2013: 2,732 abortions were carried out on ground E in 2013. Of that number, 1,301 (or 48%) of those were on the basis of genetic defect. Down's Syndrome abortions made up 590 (or 22%) of that 1,301. That's not 80% either.

Here's where I'm citing the 2013 statistics from: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ortion_Statistics__England_and_Wales_2013.pdf page 12, paragraph 2.14.

Do you actually have a reliable source for abortion statistics? Because 'Google it' can so easily backfire on you.

What Paul said is that we must respect the authorities and be ideal citizens in our State. This is in line with what Jesus said: “…give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar…”. Bear in mind that when Paul said what he said, the Church was being heavily persecuted and Christians were being killed on daily basis. The message that he gave can be summarized as follows: “even if the authorities are unfair, respect them because by being model citizens you will give a better testimony to the pagans”. Earthly authorities are a blessing from God because anarchy is worse than the worse form of government. This is what Paul was saying. He never tried to become a politician or a king. Therefore, Christianity was apolitical in its origins and it is apolitical now.

You choose to ignore the fact that Christian “terrorist” groups are unknown because they rarely, if ever, commit acts of violence. This is in stark contrast with the almost daily violence committed by Islamic terrorist groups.You said that most acts of violence in the US are committed by "Christians". How many of those acts are committed in the name of Christ? Zero. How many in the name of Allah? Thousands (if you include those that are foiled).

Regarding abortion in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...-aborted-every-day-due-to-Downs-syndrome.html

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

What Paul said is that we must respect the authorities and be ideal citizens in our State. This is in line with what Jesus said: “…give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar…”. Bear in mind that when Paul said what he said, the Church was being heavily persecuted and Christians were being killed on daily basis. The message that he gave can be summarized as follows: “even if the authorities are unfair, respect them because by being model citizens you will give a better testimony to the pagans”. Earthly authorities are a blessing from God because anarchy is worse than the worse form of government. This is what Paul was saying. He never tried to become a politician or a king. Therefore, Christianity was apolitical in its origins

Fair enough. I can't argue with that.

and it is apolitical now.

No. Wrong. Religions, like cultures, can change a lot in a span of about two thousand years and Christianity has changed. You're wrong because you've not addressed the organisations and movements I've already given you. Indeed, you hadn't even heard of most of them until I brought them up. Now you're just repeating "Christianity is apolitical" over and over as if repeating this error will make it true. Christianity is entwined with politics on both sides of the pond to the point the two are rapidly becoming indistinguishable.

You choose to ignore the fact that Christian “terrorist” groups are unknown because they rarely, if ever, commit acts of violence.

In comparison to the scale of Islamist terrorist attacks, I agree. That said, the fact Christian terrorist attacks occur at all proves my point - terrorism is defined as using violence; especially for political aims. That said, Christianity has been given enormous privilege in American (and British) governance. In the former nation, Christians can simply enact policies based on their beliefs; in some cases it costs the taxpayer thousands of dollars to have these breaches of the Establishment Clause rectified. Restrictions on women's right to bodily autonomy are brought in because Christian pro-lifers think they should be turned into walking incubators; their rights subordinate to the ball of cells in their uterus.

This is in stark contrast with the almost daily violence committed by Islamic terrorist groups.You said that most acts of violence in the US are committed by "Christians". How many of those acts are committed in the name of Christ? Zero.

Here's a list of the worst Christian terrorist acts in the last 30 years. It's by no means a full list of every Christian terrorist act.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-a...ks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

Here's a list of Christian terrorist acts experienced by one person who worked in a Planned Parenthood clinic which doesn't even do abortions.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/aut...lived-through-as-a-planned-parenthood-worker/

How many in the name of Allah? Thousands (if you include those that are foiled).

Again, I can't argue with this. I'm not saying Muslims don't commit acts of terrorism. And no, I wouldn't count the ones that are foiled since they weren't actually committed.

Regarding abortion in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...-aborted-every-day-due-to-Downs-syndrome.html[/QUOTE]

Okay, there's a source. I do wonder where they're getting the number from though, since this paragraph: "The research shows that around 1,100 babies in England and Wales are aborted every year because of Down's syndrome, an increase from 300 in 1989/90." flies in the face of the Government's own statistics (the ones I provided you with earlier). Additionally, there is no link to the study the article cites. Curious.

1,100 foetuses with Down's are aborted every year? No. The number was 590 in 2013 and 662 in 2014.

 

[Unification]

If u suppose islam is peaceful,can u give me any example of islam being peaceful other than helping exclusively other muslims and not killing everybody else?.

Perhaps you're not understanding.

A word meaning peace is not the same as certain religious ideologies not being of peace.

For me, everything that you're referring to that is not of peace, is not "Islam."

I wouldn't call most of it "Islam," I'd call it anti-Islam or anti-peace.

 

[Unification]

If u ever asked a street preacher or any hate preacher i bet they will say they are fundamentalist and they will say you are goin to hell.

Sure, many not all.

I would just tell them that they are already in hell by hating.

 

[Unification]

Well if he ****ed a girl that hasnt even gone through period yet,he is a sick pedophil.

Do you believe the Quran should be interpreted literally and historically?

 

[Crypto2015]

Fair enough. I can't argue with that.



No. Wrong. Religions, like cultures, can change a lot in a span of about two thousand years and Christianity has changed. You're wrong because you've not addressed the organisations and movements I've already given you. Indeed, you hadn't even heard of most of them until I brought them up. Now you're just repeating "Christianity is apolitical" over and over as if repeating this error will make it true. Christianity is entwined with politics on both sides of the pond to the point the two are rapidly becoming indistinguishable.




In comparison to the scale of Islamist terrorist attacks, I agree. That said, the fact Christian terrorist attacks occur at all proves my point - terrorism is defined as using violence; especially for political aims. That said, Christianity has been given enormous privilege in American (and British) governance. In the former nation, Christians can simply enact policies based on their beliefs; in some cases it costs the taxpayer thousands of dollars to have these breaches of the Establishment Clause rectified. Restrictions on women's right to bodily autonomy are brought in because Christian pro-lifers think they should be turned into walking incubators; their rights subordinate to the ball of cells in their uterus.



Here's a list of the worst Christian terrorist acts in the last 30 years. It's by no means a full list of every Christian terrorist act.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-a...ks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men

Here's a list of Christian terrorist acts experienced by one person who worked in a Planned Parenthood clinic which doesn't even do abortions.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/aut...lived-through-as-a-planned-parenthood-worker/



Again, I can't argue with this. I'm not saying Muslims don't commit acts of terrorism. And no, I wouldn't count the ones that are foiled since they weren't actually committed.

Regarding abortion in the UK:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...-aborted-every-day-due-to-Downs-syndrome.html

Okay, there's a source. I do wonder where they're getting the number from though, since this paragraph: "The research shows that around 1,100 babies in England and Wales are aborted every year because of Down's syndrome, an increase from 300 in 1989/90." flies in the face of the Government's own statistics (the ones I provided you with earlier). Additionally, there is no link to the study the article cites. Curious.

1,100 foetuses with Down's are aborted every year? No. The number was 590 in 2013 and 662 in 2014.[/QUOTE]


A distinction should be made between Christianity and religions based on Christianity. The former are the combined teachings of the Jewish prophets and Jesus, as contained in the Bible. The latter are earthly institutions that claim to represent the will of God on this earth. As I said before, Christianity is apolitical. The books of the New Testament clearly state that “our citizenship is in heaven” (Philippians 3:20) and that our kingdom “is not of this world” (John 18:36). However, it is true that religions based on Christianity (i.e., Catholicism or Protestantism) can and unfortunately have had political goals. It must be emphasized, however, that the political aspect of these religions developed itself in spite of Christianity, and not because of it. When it comes to Islam, we see that its founder, Muhammad, was as much of a political leader and a warrior as he was a religious leader. Islam is filled with political injunctions that include the waging of war in order to expand the territories controlled by Islam. Its ultimate goal is not to convert the whole of humanity to Islam, but to bring the whole of humanity under the control of an Islamic global caliphate.

Finally, your list of terrorist acts committed by Christians is simply nonsense. For example, it highlights the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, which was perpetrated by a white supremacist. He was not a Christian at all, unless you think that he was Christian just because he was white. He also mentions the murderer of Dr. George Tiller, Scott Roeder. It is true that Roeder claimed to be a Christian, but it is also true that he had long history of mental illness, something that is conveniently not mentioned in your list. Then your list turns utterly ridiculous by citing the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting, in which Christians were actually the victims. The perpetrator, James Adkinsson, explicitly said that he was motivated by racism, hatred of democrats, and homophobia. That’s how your list turns a terrorist attack against Christians into a terrorist attack committed by Christians. Some of the other incidents may be legit, but your list as a whole is not. It is a dishonest list.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

A distinction should be made between Christianity and religions based on Christianity. The former are the combined teachings of the Jewish prophets and Jesus, as contained in the Bible. The latter are earthly institutions that claim to represent the will of God on this earth.

No True Scotsman fallacy. By this logic there are no Christian churches or sects anywhere because all churches and sects are earthly institutes whose members claim to (uniquely, in many cases) understand God's will on Earth.

As I said before, Christianity is apolitical.

As I said before, you're wrong. I, at least, have given you examples of why you're wrong.

The books of the New Testament clearly state that “our citizenship is in heaven” (Philippians 3:20) and that our kingdom “is not of this world” (John 18:36).

Tell that to the countless monarchs who were under the belief that God sanctified their respective reigns. Christianity started out apolitical but became political.

However, it is true that religions based on Christianity (i.e., Catholicism or Protestantism) can and unfortunately have had political goals.

No True Scotsman again. You have no authority to define what is and is not True Christianity. If the people involved profess a belief in Jesus then they're Christian.

It must be emphasized, however, that the political aspect of these religions developed itself in spite of Christianity, and not because of it.

Jesus himself was an example of a religious and political force. He amassed a following, subverting the religious and political authority of the Jewish religious leaders of his day, and attempted to undermine the Jewish religious tradition by announcing their rituals had become obsolete.

Finally, your list of terrorist acts committed by Christians is simply nonsense. For example, it highlights the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting, which was perpetrated by a white supremacist. He was not a Christian at all, unless you think that he was Christian just because he was white.

Okay, fair enough. The list involved doesn't just include Christian terrorism. So I was wrong in insinuating that it was just a list of Christian terrorist acts.

He also mentions the murderer of Dr. George Tiller, Scott Roeder. It is true that Roeder claimed to be a Christian, but it is also true that he had long history of mental illness, something that is conveniently not mentioned in your list.

Having a mental illness doesn't stop a person being Christian. Dr Tiller wasn't just attacked by Roeder either; he was shot by Shelly Shannon who is a convicted Christian terrorist - and she in turn inspired another terrorist, Paul Hill, to shoot Dr John Britton and his bodyguard. Paul Hill also studied under Greg Bahnsen who is one of the founders of Christian Reconstructionism.

Christianity is up to its neck in this - it's the primary motivation for these attacks and the CR movement.

Then your list turns utterly ridiculous by citing the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting, in which Christians were actually the victims. The perpetrator, James Adkinsson, explicitly said that he was motivated by racism, hatred of democrats, and homophobia. That’s how your list turns a terrorist attack against Christians into a terrorist attack committed by Christians. Some of the other incidents may be legit, but your list as a whole is not. It is a dishonest list.

Again, that was based on my assumption that the list contained only acts of Christian terrorism. The list itself is not dishonest - my initial interpretation of said list was a mistake.

Oh, and just by using your above logic, most atrocities by Islamic State aren't acts of terrorism because their victims are mostly other Muslims. You might want to stop and think about the double-think you're employing.

I notice, of course, that you haven't gone near the list of Christian terrorist actions listed by Bryn Greenwood on Twitter. Telling.

 

[CATSISS]

Perhaps you're not understanding.

A word meaning peace is not the same as certain religious ideologies not being of peace.

For me, everything that you're referring to that is not of peace, is not "Islam."

I wouldn't call most of it "Islam," I'd call it anti-Islam or anti-peace.

U really need to read the quran,seriously.

 

[Unification]

U really need to read the quran,seriously.

I do, and I am not conformed to it historically, literally, exoterically in any way. It's for the emotionally mature.

It's all going on within mind and body.

Some of it was added to suit certain agenda's but most of it is about a deep sense of inner self.

 

[CATSISS]

Do you believe the Quran should be interpreted literally and historically?

Cant u see the problems already?its because most muslims here in uk either ignore it or take it literally,they simply knew its imposible not to take it literally,i wish they wont take it literally but a lot of them do,thats why there are cherry pickers!!,but im still better of with the cherry pickers,let me give u an example of a violent passage in the quran and u tell me how not to take it literally " “And slay them wherever ye find them(non believers), and drive them out of the places when they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…"

 

[YmirGF]

I do, and I am not conformed to it historically, literally, exoterically in any way. It's for the emotionally mature.

It's all going on within mind and body.

Some of it was added to suit certain agenda's but most of it is about a deep sense of inner self.

Oddly, I found it to perpetuate a serious misunderstanding of human nature, due largely to the likely mental illness(es) that its writer probably suffered from. (And yes, I have read several translations in English - from cover to cover.)

 

[CATSISS]

I do, and I am not conformed to it historically, literally, exoterically in any way. It's for the emotionally mature.

It's all going on within mind and body.

Some of it was added to suit certain agenda's but most of it is about a deep sense of inner self.

like i said,doesnt matter what it is,but whats in it and the result,just look at how violent are muslims here in europe enforcing sharia laws even in sweden at least 25% of its women will get RAPED by a muslim male,if u really want that to happen in your country go ahead accept islam and see the result.

 

[CATSISS]

I do, and I am not conformed to it historically, literally, exoterically in any way. It's for the emotionally mature.

It's all going on within mind and body.

Some of it was added to suit certain agenda's but most of it is about a deep sense of inner self.

like i said,doesnt matter what it is,but whats in it and the result,just look at how violent are muslims here in europe enforcing sharia laws even in sweden at least 25% of its women will get RAPED by a muslim male,if u really want that to your country go ahead accept islam and see the result.

 

[Unification]

Cant u see the problems already?its because most muslims here in uk either ignore it or take it literally,they simply knew its imposible not to take it literally,i wish they wont take it literally but a lot of them do,thats why there are cherry pickers!!,but im still better of with the cherry pickers,let me give u an example of a violent passage in the quran and u tell me how not to take it literally " “And slay them wherever ye find them(non believers), and drive them out of the places when they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]…"

I already answered that.... whatever is causing a human to suffer... destroy, slay, and eradicate those abstract things.

It is better to slay those things within someone rather than allow them to linger and consume.

If anger consumes someone and has drove them away from peace, slay and drive out that anger. Anger is raping and enslaving the mind.

It is no different than the bible, it's not referring to literal heritage Jews or Israelites... just as the Quran isn't referring to literal Muslims.

 

[Unification]

like i said,doesnt matter what it is,but whats in it and the result,just look at how violent are muslims here in europe enforcing sharia laws even in sweden at least 25% of its women will get RAPED by a muslim male,if u really want that to happen in your country go ahead accept islam and see the result.

You're making assumptions. I dislike all of those ideologies. They must be slayed within minds.

 

[Unification]

like i said,doesnt matter what it is,but whats in it and the result,just look at how violent are muslims here in europe enforcing sharia laws even in sweden at least 25% of its women will get RAPED by a muslim male,if u really want that to your country go ahead accept islam and see the result.

When taken literally, you will have literal males controlling literal females.
When taken internally, you will have the conscious mind within any human controlling the subconscious mind within any human.

If a conscious mind is dwelling on negativity.... the woman(subconscious mind) will be raped/controlled/enslaved to that negativity.