Pretty simple thought experiment on these family separations

[Brickjectivity]

This article recounts presidential policy of the last two administrations and major legislation about Immigration to USA. It talks about changes that may soon come and positions of political actors. It does not critique, analyze or morally flavor the information: The U.S. Immigration Debate

 

[Kirran]

Well 1, children are removed from parents daily, you guys on the left just don't care about them because it isn't tied to Trump. 2 they're not in campus lol. They're in shelter, with food and water and such, while the government looks for family to place them with.

A) I'm not an American, so my life in general is not tied especially to its current president and B) I think there are plenty of problems with child welfare systems in the USA as in many (all?) other countries around the world. Of course in some cases children are better off without their parents, if those parents are very abusive, for example.

Alright, camps, shelters where they are detained. I may have made a mistake here, but could you explain the distinction?

Also, WHY not deport the entire family together, if you're gonna send them out? Why take their children and foster them in the USA, rather than sending them all back?

 

[Underhill]

A) I'm not an American, so my life in general is not tied especially to its current president and B) I think there are plenty of problems with child welfare systems in the USA as in many (all?) other countries around the world. Of course in some cases children are better off without their parents, if those parents are very abusive, for example.

Alright, camps, shelters where they are detained. I may have made a mistake here, but could you explain the distinction?

I don't believe there is much of one. Camps tend to be more of a 'community' with outdoor space that houses people. Shelters are usually just a place (usually in one building) to stay temporarily. Functionally they are very similar.

Also, WHY not deport the entire family together, if you're gonna send them out? Why take their children and foster them in the USA, rather than sending them all back?

I believe they do. But in the interim, while they are awaiting trial, the children are separated from the parents. The parents are housed in a sort of low security prison, so the standard operating procedure is to take the kids. If the parents are sent back, the kids are usually sent with them.

The problem is, the process can take months. So these kids are currently often thrown in a cage to wait.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If they migrate illegally, it means they cannot support them, to begin with.

Not to mention the incredibly extreme danger of a trip like that. I'm willing to bet a lot of those children die at the hands of their parents who choose to enter illegally rather than go through channels. Some send their children off alone. If that isn't neglect or a form of abuse I don't know what is.

 

[Milton Platt]

As a social worker I can tell you most kids are upset at separation. I have a moral thought experiment here. Take a young baby away from a drug dealing, domestically violent parent about to go to jail, and the kid will cry their eyes out. Does this mean we should simply send the child to jail, or leave the drug dealer on the street, since the child is upset? What if he's a molestor, leave him on the streets? A thief? How does the crime at all effect the situation of a child not being sent to jail, and a criminal not being free. I mean sending a child to prison or leaving a criminal on the streets just because the child was upset... that's honestly way more disgusting than performing a necessary evil so a child can have a life.

I don't think there is a parallel, if you are trying to compare the people in your example to a parent who's only crime was to cross the border illegally to earn money to support their family or to remove their family from a dangerous environment.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not to mention the incredibly extreme danger of a trip like that. I'm willing to bet a lot of those children die at the hands of their parents who choose to enter illegally rather than go through channels. Some send their children off alone. If that isn't neglect or a form of abuse I don't know what is.

And if they stayed in Honduras, and their kids ended up being murdered, you'd be saying "What kind of terrible parents are these that they couldn't be bothered to get their kids out of harm's way?!"

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what kinds of desperate situations these people are in that they think they have no other choice but to leave home with nothing and drag their kids across the continent looking for safety in the US. Then we should ask ourselves how far we would go to get our children to safety.

 

[jonathan180iq]

H.R.5005 - 107th Congress (2001-2002): Homeland Security Act of 2002

 

[Kirran]

I believe they do. But in the interim, while they are awaiting trial, the children are separated from the parents. The parents are housed in a sort of low security prison, so the standard operating procedure is to take the kids. If the parents are sent back, the kids are usually sent with them.

The problem is, the process can take months. So these kids are currently often thrown in a cage to wait.

I see!

Well, I imagine they could keep them all together quite easily for that period...

 

[Underhill]

Not to mention the incredibly extreme danger of a trip like that. I'm willing to bet a lot of those children die at the hands of their parents who choose to enter illegally rather than go through channels. Some send their children off alone. If that isn't neglect or a form of abuse I don't know what is.

Not so much. I've taken similar trips with my kids with no unreasonable risk. It's called backpacking and we do it all the time.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Not to mention the incredibly extreme danger of a trip like that. I'm willing to bet a lot of those children die at the hands of their parents who choose to enter illegally rather than go through channels. Some send their children off alone. If that isn't neglect or a form of abuse I don't know what is.

As has been pointed out to you before, MOST illegal entrants arrive by plane or car and overstay their visas. Sorry if that's inconvenient for the "neglectful bad people leaving their children to die in the desert" narrative you clearly want to believe in.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Sadly, the rules here prevent me from fully articulating the disgust that your posts evoke -- and should evoke.

So it turns out "Never again! Never forget!" Has a shelf life of slightly less than 73 years.

Well if that isn't an indictment of human nature...

 

[Twilight Hue]

And if they stayed in Honduras, and their kids ended up being murdered, you'd be saying "What kind of terrible parents are these that they couldn't be bothered to get their kids out of harm's way?!"

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what kinds of desperate situations these people are in that they think they have no other choice but to leave home with nothing and drag their kids across the continent looking for safety in the US. Then we should ask ourselves how far we would go to get our children to safety.

So bad it would be like with our desperate ancestors who went over with their kids and settled in the Americas right?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not so much. I've taken similar trips with my kids with no unreasonable risk. It's called backpacking and we do it all the time.

Well it was that safe, they should have stopped once it got safe. Like you eluded, no unreasonable risk, good place to settle right then and there rather than keep pushing the odds.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And if they stayed in Honduras, and their kids ended up being murdered, you'd be saying "What kind of terrible parents are these that they couldn't be bothered to get their kids out of harm's way?!"

Maybe we should be asking ourselves what kinds of desperate situations these people are in that they think they have no other choice but to leave home with nothing and drag their kids across the continent looking for safety in the US. Then we should ask ourselves how far we would go to get our children to safety.

Then change Honduras. Want to know something?

Opinion | How the Most Dangerous Place on Earth Got Safer

Good news for Honduras' murder capital?

Yeah, we're (meaning the horrible US of A) playing our part since 2016 to help stem the tide of illegals ....

 

[Riders]

Im just glad its over with.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Im just glad its over with.

Yes. Trump just signed an executive order stopping family separation.

 

[Twilight Hue]

/chapter

Case closed

Fineto

This Is the End.

That's all folks.

And to all a good-night.

 

[fantome profane]

/chapter

Case closed

Fineto

This Is the End.

That's all folks.

And to all a good-night.

No, it is not over. Not by a long shot.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, it is not over. Not by a long shot.

Figured as much.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So bad it would be like with our desperate ancestors who went over with their kids and settled in the Americas right?

Pardon?