Prisoner swap deal to free Shalit

[Jayhawker Soule]

Gilad - Welcome Home

 

[croak]

This is insane. But at the very least, it forces them to acknowledge that hundreds of them are worth one Israeli, so it's not Jews who are the bigots here. I would have traded 10 max.

We should offer prisoner for land swaps. 1 Palestinian for 10 apartment blocks. In PA-controlled land.

And what would that accomplish?

 

[Alceste]

How do we know that all the Palestinian prisoners to be released are "killers" or "terrorists"? AFAIK, Israel arrests people extra-judicially and detains and tortures them indefinitely without trial. Under those conditions, who can say with any confidence that they are criminals?

 

[Caladan]

How do we know that all the Palestinian prisoners to be released are "killers" or "terrorists"? AFAIK, Israel arrests people extra-judicially and detains and tortures them indefinitely without trial. Under those conditions, who can say with any confidence that they are criminals?

I think its fairly easy to establish without extensive research that at least a handful of killers with blood on their hands are released.

 

[sadiq]

How do we know that all the Palestinian prisoners to be released are "killers" or "terrorists"? AFAIK, Israel arrests people extra-judicially and detains and tortures them indefinitely without trial. Under those conditions, who can say with any confidence that they are criminals?

Yeah Samir Kuntar leaving Jail with a degree, I bet math class is torture for a man who cannot count.

Israel is lenient to say the least it's even parodied in Israeli newspapers so do not spread lies about Extra Judicial torture and arrests because if that would actually happen the government would get grilled by our leftist media.

Palestinian detainees have cells with HD T.Vs and leave jail with degrees and get to buy food at a cantina while Shalit rots away in some underground cave while his health deteriorates...

 

[Alceste]

I think its fairly easy to establish without extensive research that at least a handful of killers with blood on their hands are released.

I've only been able to find backgrounds on four or five - and due to the media's inherent bias toward the melodramatic, I have to assume those are the highest profile cases. Of those, one was only a driver and one confessed to under severe and prolonged torture. Also, many have already served over 20 years.

What I'd really like to see is a comprehensive overview of who the prisoners are and the evidence against them. Until then it seems kind of questionabld for people in this thread and the media to be calling them all "killers" and "terrorists".

 

[Caladan]

I've only been able to find backgrounds on four or five - and due to the media's inherent bias toward the melodramatic, I have to assume those are the highest profile cases. Of those, one was only a driver and one confessed to under severe and prolonged torture. Also, many have already served over 20 years.

What I'd really like to see is a comprehensive overview of who the prisoners are and the evidence against them. Until then it seems kind of questionabld for people in this thread and the media to be calling them all "killers" and "terrorists".

Israel rejected demands by Hamas to release high profile terrorists, or terrorists who have masterminded the death of many people or perhaps were directly responsible for the death of many people.
this was made public by the media.
its known that 1000 prisoners released are not all high profile terrorists or 'arch-terrorists'.

 

[sadiq]

Israel rejected demands by Hamas to release high profile terrorists, or terrorists who have masterminded the death of many people or perhaps were directly responsible for the death of many people.
this was made public by the media.
its known that 1000 prisoners released are not all high profile terrorists or 'arch-terrorists'.

Wrong, Israel again made concessions and released some of the high profile terrorists it swore not to release.

Only a driver, They arrested the driver because the man he was driving blew up civilians.
Also:
List of Shalit deal prisoners released - Israel News, Ynetnews

 

[Caladan]

Wrong, Israel again made concessions and released some of the high profile terrorists it swore not to release.

Only a driver, They arrested the driver because the man he was driving blew up civilians.
Also:
List of Shalit deal prisoners released - Israel News, Ynetnews

I guess I should have rephrased my post. or perhaps you should read it in light of press releases.
Israel did reject Hamas' demands to release prisoners which Israel considers 'arch-terrorists'. the fact that there are terrorists who are released is not in question.
If you can build a general picture of the terrorists Israel swore not to release and are in fact released in the deal it would contribute to the debate.

 

[Rakhel]

Question:
what is "security arrangement" as far as Israel is concerned? I have an idea but want to make sure.

 

[sadiq]

I guess I should have rephrased my post. or perhaps you should read it in light of press releases.
Israel did reject Hamas' demands to release prisoners which Israel considers 'arch-terrorists'. the fact that there are terrorists who are released is not in question.
If you can build a general picture of the terrorists Israel swore not to release and are in fact released in the deal it would contribute to the debate.

Arch-Murderers like Abd al-Hadi Ghanayem, The man hijacked a Bus drove it into a ravine and murdered 16 Civilians.
And they're even releasing men who masterminded Suicide bombings...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How do we know that all the Palestinian prisoners to be released are "killers" or "terrorists"? AFAIK, ...

Your concern is agenda driven and contrary to the facts and, as such, worthless. Do support those on the to-be-released list. Will you take responsibility for their future acts. (The truth is two-fold: you have no clue what they did and are totally unconcerned about what they may do in the future. It's a despicable stance.

 

[Alceste]

Your concern is agenda driven and contrary to the facts and, as such, worthless. Do support those on the to-be-released list. Will you take responsibility for their future acts. (The truth is two-fold: you have no clue what they did and are totally unconcerned about what they may do in the future. It's a despicable stance.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a despicable stance? As I said, I have not seen the case against the palestinian detainees, so I am skeptical of claims they are all dangerous.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

AFAIK, Israel arrests people extra-judicially and detains and tortures them indefinitely without trial.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is a despicable stance?

"Innocent until proven guilty unless you're Israel" is both despicable and antisemitic, not to mention hypocritical.

 

[Levite]

"Innocent until proven guilty unless you're Israel" is both despicable and antisemitic, not to mention hypocritical.

I would frubal this if I could.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is a disgusting polarization. On the one hand: Israelis who know that some of them will be arbitrarily blown to bits by those released back into the service of terrorism. On the other: a growing 'liberal' hate mob who could care less.

 

[Alceste]

"Innocent until proven guilty unless you're Israel" is both despicable and antisemitic, not to mention hypocritical.

So these prisoners have all been tried through the criminal justice system and found guilty of something? How can you be sure of that without more information? Doesn't Israel detain people indefinitely without trial any more?

I do not believe the military courts that process Palestinian prisoners are any more credible than the military courts that process the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, and I believe there are serious concerns about arbitrary detainment and lack of due process from credible organizations like Human Rights Watch and B'Tselem.

I am more than willing to be proven wrong (by evidence, obviously, not rhetoric). That can't happen if you would rather be outraged that I won't join in this mindless chorus that the Palestinian prisoners are all murderers and terrorists than provide evidence to back up your claim that they are.

 

[Alceste]

"Innocent until proven guilty unless you're Israel" is both despicable and antisemitic, not to mention hypocritical.

I should also mention that making a great Pavlovian leap to wild-eyed accusations of anti-semitism every time you stumble across someone who refuses to brainlessly regurgitate the Israeli government's narrative doesn't make for a good debate.

 

[Rakhel]

Doesn't Israel detain people indefinitely without trial any more?

sorry for the quote mine, but thought to answer this particular question. I know of 3 men in Mississippi who committed a crime about 15 years ago(give or take) who have never been tried yet are still sitting in jail, and a man here in NYC who has been in jail for at least 5 years and still hasn't been to court.

Fair and speedy trials are the dreams of the naive.

 

[Alceste]

sorry for the quote mine, but thought to answer this particular question. I know of 3 men in Mississippi who committed a crime about 15 years ago(give or take) who have never been tried yet are still sitting in jail, and a man here in NYC who has been in jail for at least 5 years and still hasn't been to court.

Fair and speedy trials are the dreams of the naive.

We get timely trials here, in compliance with section 11 of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I don't know what's going on in the US, but I would hardly hold it up as an exemplar of functioning democracy to which the rest of the world should aspire.