Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[McBell]

So, what your saying is that theres no reason why laws are made.
That depending on the person, its validity is subjective. Is that what your saying? Otherwise, theres no need for me to post a list of objective laws. Killing might as well be viable, forget the reasons. If someone kills your wife, despite the fact that she may have ran over the killers dog the day prior, in his mind hes morally justified. In yours, however, hes not. Lets hop on that ship.

You are the one claiming absolutes, not me.
All I have done is ask for a list of those absolutes you make claim of.

Are you going to support your claim with the lists I asked for?

 

[Thruve]

You are the one claiming absolutes, not me.
All I have done is ask for a list of those absolutes you make claim of.

Are you going to support your claim with the lists I asked for?

a list of objective laws?

if yes, no thanks.
To you all laws are subject to validity.

Go one thinking life is isn't a basic human right, especially since selfishness seems to have over ruled it.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

THANK GOD for the law.




I guess those might as well be subjectively valid.

Personally, I'm glad that the law in my country doesn't restrict abortion.

Exactly what's your basis for demanding that the fetus be protected? It can't be a matter of human rights (even if we grant human rights to the fetus), since you would deny bodily autonomy to the woman. If a pregnant woman doesn't have a right, then it can't be a human right.

What's your justification for this super-status for fetuses?

 

[McBell]

a list of objective laws?

if yes, no thanks.
To you all laws are subject to validity.

Go one thinking life is isn't a basic human right, especially since selfishness seems to have over ruled it.

There you go again...

Making yourself the fool by trying to dictate to me what I think, believe, feel, etc.

It is to bad you royally suck at it.

but whatever helps you get through the day, right?


Now that we have established your claim is a bold faced lie, care to revoke it?

 

[Thruve]

Personally, I'm glad that the law in my country doesn't restrict abortion.

Exactly what's your basis for demanding that the fetus be protected? It can't be a matter of human rights (even if we grant human rights to the fetus), since you would deny bodily autonomy to the woman. If a pregnant woman doesn't have a right, then it can't be a human right.

What's your justification for this super-status for fetuses?

Im not fighting for the fetus. Reread some of my previous posts so you get a better clarification on that. Im fighting for women to have the strength to overcome fear and societal pressure to have an abortion over countless reasons OTHER than life or death situations. We should be fighting down the reasons because what its turned into today is a contraceptive option.

 

[Thruve]

There you go again...

Making yourself the fool by trying to dictate to me what I think, believe, feel, etc.

It is to bad you royally suck at it.

but whatever helps you get through the day, right?


Now that we have established your claim is a bold faced lie, care to revoke it?

Alright. So what I've gathered is that life is NOT a basic human right to you.
What ever happened to dignity, oh, your an atheist. Anything that points up goes right out the window.

 

[McBell]

Alright. So what I've gathered is that life is NOT a basic human right to you.
What ever happened to dignity, oh, your an atheist. Anything that points up goes right out the window.

Still trying to dictate to me.
sad really, that you are that desperate.


Now that it has been established you are not interested in honest discussion...

 

[Thruve]

Still trying to dictate to me.
sad really, that you are that desperate.


Now that it has been established you are not interested in honest discussion...

Im trying to dictate to you? Where the hell are you getting that? Are you even reading my posts dude? Like?

You want an honest discussion? Abortion, no matter how one tries to justify it, is murder. Denying someone life, is murder. Morality aside. Reason aside. Bottom line, it is murder. So people adhere to the fetus now. So denying anything with the potential of life is not murder now. Living cells that are continuously multiplying to form that of a human being, regardless of perception of pain, is not murder. Well lets get to the basics. Anything with potential of life,although denied out of selfishness in most cases, is still murder.
Discuss that.

To you, life isnt a basic human right, and thats based off what you;ve tried to prove me on a few pages ago. Why are you interpreting that as me dictating you.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey guys, I'm unsubscribing from this thread for subscription management. Please forgive me for any thing you didn't like coming from me. I only gave my views, of which I could be wrong, and I didn't intend to force any of them on others.

Thank you.

 

[McBell]

Im trying to dictate to you? Where the hell are you getting that? Are you even reading my posts dude? Like?

Are you so ignorant you do not know or is it you are being dishonest?
Neither sounds promising for an honest discussion...

You want an honest discussion? Abortion, no matter how one tries to justify it, is murder.

Right off the bat with the dishonesty...
Not that I am the least bit surprised.

Don't know what i am talking about?
Look up the definition of the word "murder".

Denying someone life, is murder.

Ouch.
Two lies in a row...

Morality aside. Reason aside. Bottom line, it is murder.

Three.

So people adhere to the fetus now.

Strawman

So denying anything with the potential of life is not murder now.

Strawman

Living cells that are continuously multiplying to form that of a human being, regardless of perception of pain, is not murder. Well lets get to the basics. Anything with potential of life,although denied out of selfishness in most cases, is still murder.
Discuss that.

It is a bold faced lie.

To you, life isnt a basic human right, and thats based off what you;ve tried to prove me on a few pages ago.

Strawman.

Why are you interpreting that as me dictating you.

You know nothing about my thoughts, beliefs, knowledge of, etc. on abortion or rights.
You have simply dictated to me what I think, feel, believe, etc. in order to justify your self righteous dishonest emotional rantings.

So once again you demonstrate your unwillingness, or inability, to have an honest discussion on this topic.

 

[Thruve]

Are you so ignorant you do not know or is it you are being dishonest?
Neither sounds promising for an honest discussion...


Right off the bat with the dishonesty...
Not that I am the least bit surprised.

Don't know what i am talking about?
Look up the definition of the word "murder".


Ouch.
Two lies in a row...


Three.


Strawman


Strawman


It is a bold faced lie.


Strawman.


You know nothing about my thoughts, beliefs, knowledge of, etc. on abortion or rights.
You have simply dictated to me what I think, feel, believe, etc. in order to justify your self righteous dishonest emotional rantings.

So once again you demonstrate your unwillingness, or inability, to have an honest discussion on this topic.

LOL k

 

[Euphoria]

Until such a time comes where people are forced to be hooked up to others as some bizarre form of life support, until such a time where it becomes moral to force others to donate blood and organs to save a dying person's life, until then the morally consistent option is pro-choice.

At it stands pregnancy is life-threatening. It may be less so with modern medicine, even so, abortion is a safer alternative to pregnancy. We, all of us, have the option of opting out when something is life-threatening. No one will force you into a car, no one will force you onto a roller-coaster, nobody will make you smoke, nobody will legally impose upon you a threat to your life without your consent. Nobody can even make you undergo a life-saving operation against your will (if you're a coherent, mentally stable adult, anyway).

So why is it that pregnant women are considered by some to have less bodily autonomy than somebody who refuses to donate blood? If someone giving blood every day, being nauseous, experiencing terrible pain, handicapping their ability to do X for some months at a time, and undergoing permanent physical changes all while risking their life to do so will save a STRANGER dying in a hospital... why should it be legal to give them a choice? Clearly it's better if we force people to risk their lives for strangers, force people to give up their time and health for strangers.

What is the difference between forcing a woman to have her body used as an incubator, against her consent and will and despite the risk to her health, why is that okay, when it will most likely never be permissible in our society to force someone to donate blood, over and over again no matter how this impacts their daily life, just so that someone else might live?

To me that is the only defense necessary. Simply, we do not force others to risk their lives without their consent, to refuse to give women the option to opt-out of a life-threatening experience is cruel and inconsistent with both the current state of our laws and the common morals that we see throughout society.

If we should not force everyone to risk their lives, to sacrifice their health, time, life, and plans for others, then we should not force women exclusively to do these things. Just because someone is dependent on you for life does not mean that your ability to lead your own life, to rule your own health, should so blatantly be disregarded in favor of theirs.

Why does the woman's life suddenly become irrelevant, just because the stranger that depends on her for life isn't born yet?

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Suppose scans and x-rays show that a baby is likely to be born severely mentally and physically handicapped, does the mother have the right to give birth to it and condemn it to a life as a vegetable?

 

[Thruve]

Suppose scans and x-rays show that a baby is likely to be born severely mentally and physically handicapped, does the mother have the right to give birth to it and condemn it to a life as a vegetable?

Have you not seen the handicapped students in HS? Do they look like vegetables to you?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Suppose scans and x-rays show that a baby is likely to be born severely mentally and physically handicapped, does the mother have the right to give birth to it and condemn it to a life as a vegetable?

I guess Stephen Hawking should be euthanized, then.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

I said 'vegetables'.
Once a week, disabled groups come into town in minibuses, and although most can get around ok with a little help, some are very badly disabled both mentally and physically and don't know what planet they're on, slobbering, incontinent, groaning etc (please don't make me draw a picture)..
So if scans and x-rays revealed they'd be born that way, surely the mother should have the right to choose to abort?

 

[Shad]

The issue of abortion is really a facade for greater issues within society. The abysmal state of the adoption and foster services make it as an option problematic. The conflict of preventive actions funded by healthcare systems. The issues with healthcare funding the procedure itself. The social stigma of young mothers, out of wedlock, etc. The lack of support for single and young parent(s). The lack of support for said parents when it comes to education.

I voted other as I believe an improvement to the above mentioned systems would reduce the controversy of this issue to a minor one. I side with Pro-Choice as an alternative as many do not care about external factors nor secondary effects either position has. Too many are focused on a single part without realizing the system itself is flawed.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Incidentally, Jesus said "the flesh is of no importance, it's the soul that counts".
So if a soul is trapped in a useless body, isn't it our Christian duty to allow the mother to terminate a pregnancy if scans reveal it'd be born chronically disabled?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I said 'vegetables'.
Once a week, disabled groups come into town in minibuses, and although most can get around ok with a little help, some are very badly disabled both mentally and physically and don't know what planet they're on, slobbering, incontinent, groaning etc (please don't make me draw a picture)..
So if scans and x-rays revealed they'd be born that way, surely the mother should have the right to choose to abort?

Incidentally, Jesus said "the flesh is of no importance, it's the soul that counts".
So if a soul is trapped in a useless body, isn't it our Christian duty to allow the mother to terminate a pregnancy if scans reveal it'd be born chronically disabled?

If you're going to use that argument, it opens the door to euthanasia of people whose lives we deem to be lesser. That's not a road I'm interested in traveling down.

 

[Thruve]

If you're going to use that argument, it opens the door to euthanasia of people whose lives we deem to be lesser. That's not a road I'm interested in traveling down.

I used to drive to Detroit once a year to visit family some years ago. Ohio was the only state with anti abortion signs along the highway.

Oh, and i remember seeing a sign about doomsday lol It was advertising a website for everyone to go visit.