Pro Life or Pro Choice?

[Smart_Guy]

oh my god you cant control the world sir so stop trying. god you sound like the U.S. millitary trying to stread you message to people that dont what it.

It's okay man, he's only asking for a clarification. Following the "benefit of the doubt" notion, I don't think he had any ulterior motives saying it. I hope so

 

[bluegoo300]

It's okay man, he's only asking for a clarification. Following the "benefit of the doubt" notion, I don't think he had any ulterior motives saying it. I hope so

i hope so too because he keeps coming off to me as very stereotypical.

 

[Smart_Guy]

yes i a very much agree with that

I'm glad you do

 

[Smart_Guy]

The problem isn't abortion; it's lack of access to abortion. And it most certainly affects your culture.

Are you implying we are not developed/civilized enough to have such access? I'm not bothered or anything, I'm just wondering what you have in mind.

Either ways, I said that the wife had an abortion. This implies something here.

 

[Smart_Guy]

i hope so too because he keeps coming off to me as very stereotypical.

That's okay man, try and speak your mind to him without taking it hard on yourself. Sometimes we just need to clarify things to others so they can understand. We are people, we're not perfect

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

oh my god you cant control the world sir so stop trying. god you sound like the U.S. millitary trying to stread you message to people that dont what it.

So you don't like me imposing my views on you when you don't want them? Ironic.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Are you implying we are not developed/civilized enough to have such access? I'm not bothered or anything, I'm just wondering what you have in mind.

Either ways, I said that the wife had an abortion. This implies something here.

I'm saying that abortion is heavily restricted in your country, so this problem is around you, too. When I referred to its effects, I was mainly thinking about the cost in human life and denial of freedom that this restriction causes.

 

[bluegoo300]

So you don't like me imposing my views on you when you don't want them? Ironic.

Look when it comes to ironic and imposing views many would consider me the biggest Hippocratic out the i hate how America forces other country’s to embrace democracy or we won’t fund them but then i go and join the army. but you know what i love the country i live in and enjoy its freedom and i love to help people so I’m proud to serve this nation. anything else im pretty open minded about most anything

 

[Smart_Guy]

I'm saying that abortion is heavily restricted in your country, so this problem is around you, too. When I referred to its effects, I was mainly thinking about the cost in human life and denial of freedom that this restriction causes.

Well in this case I'll have to repeat my self that I said she had the abortion in the and and:

If the mother is the least threatened, it is her choice to decide.

What people talk about and the media presents aren't always the truth.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well in this case I'll have to repeat my self that I said she had the abortion in the and and:


What people talk about and the media presents aren't always the truth.

I was basing my opinion on whay the UN said on the matter:

http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/abortion/doc/saudiarabia.doc

This document says that to get an abortion, a woman needs the permission of her husband and approval from a panel of doctors. I thought you said it was her choice. Who's wrong: you or the UN?

 

[Smart_Guy]

I was basing my opinion on whay the UN said on the matter:

This document says that to get an abortion, a woman needs the permission of her husband and approval from a panel of doctors. I thought you said it was her choice. Who's wrong: you or the UN?

If there is a risk to the health of the mother, the abortion takes place if she chooses to no matter what the husband says, full stop. This is how it is here no matter what the so called UN or the intergalactic association say (if they existed, heh).

Your source probably says so in the case the pregnancy is normal. Here the father is obliged to take care of the financial part of the children and they do so instead of expecting the mother to do so, which means the mother has nothing to worry about other than her health issues.

It is the mother's choice to have an abortion if there was even a slight risk to her health (the part you neglected, and I hope it was unintentional), and please no more hints to open a can of worms against Saudi Arabia (Sorry, but your posts give the impression of that), and let's stay on topic. You have something about Saudi Arabia, please open a new thread and feel free to say what you want.

Before I go, please quote the part that says the permission of the husband is required, in a clear context, not a phrase, to support your claim. Thank you.

 

[Thruve]

Now all you need to do is show that your opinion on the justifications should be taken seriously because....?

Because human rights.
Haven't I met you at the circus before?
I paid to see the show, and uhm, I believe you were the star in the 4th act.

 

[McBell]

Because human rights.

ah, you mean the arbitrary rights that are given to humans by humans?

Why should the "rights" of the fetus outweigh the rights of the mother?

 

[Willamena]

ah, you mean the arbitrary rights that are given to humans by humans?

They're not arbitrary, they have sound grounding in philosophy.

Why should the "rights" of the fetus outweigh the rights of the mother?

It's a matter of equal rights, projected even for potential humans.

 

[s2a]

Last poll:

Pro-choice: 48
Pro-LIfe: 17

Choice wins.

Anything else?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's surely not the minority.

Some of you are just.. ugh.

Ultimately, females who want abortions are free to do so. They know exactly what they are doing, and no matter how hard they try to justify their decisions, most are not justified. Overall, it will be something they will take to their grave.

I see an abortion no differently than a female banging her own stomach ten times with her fists. It has the same outcome. The image alone is horrifying. Why are people creating new images to make it anything less? Oh, because it's less horrifying and makes me feel better.. awe... No.

If you learn you have a condition to which giving birth, or the pregnancy alone, might kill you, then one can justify an abortion. If your a crack whore and getting pregnant doesn't induce a motherly instinct, which hopefully would give you the strength to let go of your problems and thrive in another way, and your health is not only a risk, but your childs as well, abortion is justified.

In reference to this:
Ok ^ This last post is convincing, I get it. Morally, its more understandable than not but after complications of a 1st pregnancy, and/or the 2nd one, USE A CONDOM IF YOU DESIRE NOT TO GO THROUGH IT AGAIN. If you choose to have another child on the other hand, DON'T COMPLAIN and fight for "zomg a women's right to choose". If your satisfied that your suffering was worth while in years to come, you also don't have the right to complain. You should have had an abortion then, since your complaining, but you didn't. So why complain.

Whats the problem then? This ISN'T the majority of circumstances that lead one to have an abortion.

This is basic human rights were talking about. Those females on MTV are role models. Why? Because any under age female who gets pregnant knows exactly where to go or who to reach out to, especially with google at their finger tips, to get an abortion. Regardless of age, you open that hole.. you better expect something bigger to eventually pop out. Don't want something to pop out? Use ur noodle, either close the hole, run to the store, go to MD Now, Planned parenthood, etc, and get the shot. If you don't and you get pregnant, oh well! Life lesson for you! Oh, No, Wait! Abortion has become the new contraceptive option. Oh! The Irony!

Abortion America's number one Killer
Abortion is the Number One Killer of Black Americans | LifeNews.com

Thats alot of women who can't withstand morning sickness. Lawl?

But naw, lets give them their rights. Lets pity everyone for their issues =((
( you poor baby), and not promote strength and endurance for females with unjustifiable abortions.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why there continues to be a war on women. Condescending attitudes toward women's reproductive health and for women who wind up with medical complications from pregnancy (which there are a lot of), as if it's an "inconvenience" at the level of a tummy ache.

It's a deeply embedded shame that's offered to women and their reproductive health as if it's all centered around morality and life ethics, rather than what is at the heart the real issue of women's health. It's not hormones, it's "that time of the month" when a woman is a *****. Pregnancy isn't a medical condition, it's a result of a woman making a choice and taking responsibility. Ectopic pregnancies, endometriosis, uterine cysts, fibroids, pre-cancerous HPV cervical issues....somehow someway fall under the umbrella of a woman not being a good enough woman morally, and she's suffering because she brought it on herself.

I can see that Eve is sill being blamed for that whole apple metaphor.

Fetal viability is the most sound marker for the line of abortion medical ethics. It's the standard I support. Before a fetus is capable of surviving outside the uterus, the woman gestating should always take precedence over the fetus, as it literally is feeding off her 24/7 in order to exist. Once viability is reached, and it stands a chance at survival outside the uterus, a fetus can and should IMO be considered a potential life that must be taken into consideration in a decision on pregnancy termination, inducing labor, etc. That is, since the fetus can be supported and enabled by outside agencies other than a woman's uterus.

Roe vs Wade, IMO, is an excellent constitutional interpretation. My thoughts are that it's the best opinion out there. If you have a uterus, and you shudder at the thought of having an abortion, don't have one. I'll stand for your right to continue a pregnancy to term as many times as you want (since we're not China). It's your choice. If you have a uterus, and you don't want to take on the risks associated with pregnancy and childbirth, I'll stand for your right to terminate the pregnancy.

But I'll never have the audacity to tell another woman what she should or should not do with her uterus. I once did when I was pro-life. I'll never go back to that.

 

[Thruve]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why there continues to be a war on women. Condescending attitudes toward women's reproductive health and for women who wind up with medical complications from pregnancy (which there are a lot of), as if it's an "inconvenience" at the level of a tummy ache.

It's a deeply embedded shame that's offered to women and their reproductive health as if it's all centered around morality and life ethics, rather than what is at the heart the real issue of women's health. It's not hormones, it's "that time of the month" when a woman is a *****. Pregnancy isn't a medical condition, it's a result of a woman making a choice and taking responsibility. Ectopic pregnancies, endometriosis, uterine cysts, fibroids, pre-cancerous HPV cervical issues....somehow someway fall under the umbrella of a woman not being a good enough woman morally, and she's suffering because she brought it on herself.

I can see that Eve is sill being blamed for that whole apple metaphor.

Fetal viability is the most sound marker for the line of abortion medical ethics. It's the standard I support. Before a fetus is capable of surviving outside the uterus, the woman gestating should always take precedence over the fetus, as it literally is feeding off her 24/7 in order to exist. Once viability is reached, and it stands a chance at survival outside the uterus, a fetus can and should IMO be considered a potential life that must be taken into consideration in a decision on pregnancy termination, inducing labor, etc. That is, since the fetus can be supported and enabled by outside agencies other than a woman's uterus.

Roe vs Wade, IMO, is an excellent constitutional interpretation. My thoughts are that it's the best opinion out there. If you have a uterus, and you shudder at the thought of having an abortion, don't have one. I'll stand for your right to continue a pregnancy to term as many times as you want (since we're not China). It's your choice. If you have a uterus, and you don't want to take on the risks associated with pregnancy and childbirth, I'll stand for your right to terminate the pregnancy.

But I'll never have the audacity to tell another woman what she should or should not do with her uterus. I once did when I was pro-life. I'll never go back to that.

I made it clear in a few other posts that if a womens LIFE is at risk, to which morning sickness and minor complications can be toughed out, then I too cannot tell a women what to do. Baby or death, Many men would make the same decision. On the other hand, It seems more women use health complications to justify their decision of having an abortion. A women who embraces her child is going to tough out the morning sickness, shes going to take on the risks, shes going to try. Any other women who doesn't do so, whos life isn't at risk, will justify health risks to have an abortion. Look at the numbers I posted in those articles. It's become a new contraceptive. Abortion is the new contraceptive option. Congratulations freedom fighters. Congratulations women's rights. It's sickening.

I too know women who I may of had an influence on in reference to their decision to have an abortion. One in particular got pregnant while willingly having sex without a condom. We were best friends, and I straight up told her she knew the risk. She wasn't ready for a child, so she said. She just got into school and hadn't the job to fund a child. I supported her nonetheless on whatever she desired to do, however I tried convincing her that I had a neighbor who could help her so that she didn't have to make the decision on her own. She already had made her decision, what she was battling was her morality. In the end she chose to have an abortion.

In highschool I was friends with a girl named Lauren. She was a sweet girl, but she was too sexually active for an 18 year old girl. Regardless, we all knew she had gotten pregnant multiple times that year, but that she had 'miscarriages' each and every time. Whether she was trying for a baby or not I will never know, but All I do know was that one day in class she called me to come to the girls bathroom in another building. Why? She had another miscarriage, and dropped the fetus in the toilet. She had a miscarriage in class. I mean, seriously? Seriously...? Girl needed help, and I always felt bad for her.


I can understand ones fear of having a child, but the argument that most women get abortions over 'health risks' is absolute TRASH. End of story. I already made my statement for women who could literally die over pregnancy, but women who would otherwise have to tough up some symptoms, if they wanted to be a mother, or knew sacrifice, theyd tough it up, and in the very least not pull the health risk argument for abortion.

 

[Thruve]

But I'll never have the audacity to tell another woman what she should or should not do with her uterus. I once did when I was pro-life. I'll never go back to that.

I don't blame you. I don't either. Seems you were the hardcore pro-life activist to which irony has taken hold of you. That doesn't mean, however, that you don't have an opinion, especially on the masses who do get abortions.

No ones arguing the decision on a life or death situation. The problem is its not always a life or death situation.



Personally, I Don't feel males have enough responsibility over a pregnancy. If a female wanted an abortion, I would require the male to pay for it.
Her irresponsibility over an unwanted pregnancy should also hold him just as irresponsible.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I think you guys are misunderstanding each other here. (what the, now there's a 16 letter word )

I see you keep getting back at each other hard. Maybe your words seem displeasing when read, but when I looked between the lines, I saw that all of you are really kind people wanting the good for the side you first found in front of you, which does not by all means mean that you don't care about the other side. Perhaps because some life experiences made you more aware of one side than the other.

Come on guys, group hug? Um, men step aside for now, I wanna hug women only

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Fetal viability is the most sound marker for the line of abortion medical ethics. It's the standard I support. Before a fetus is capable of surviving outside the uterus, the woman gestating should always take precedence over the fetus, as it literally is feeding off her 24/7 in order to exist. Once viability is reached, and it stands a chance at survival outside the uterus, a fetus can and should IMO be considered a potential life that must be taken into consideration in a decision on pregnancy termination, inducing labor, etc. That is, since the fetus can be supported and enabled by outside agencies other than a woman's uterus.

The fetus should only be protected when they can survive outside the womb? What about the brain and sentience? It's okay to rip a fetus apart in the womb when they are sentient?