Problems vs. Solutions and criticizing (e.g.), BLM

[Revoltingest]

Proportionally to blacks or just more whites than blacks?

"More" = Greater quantity
"Blacks at greater individual risk" = Greater proportion of their population

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

sigh.. BLM is an example of a more general situation. So, using BLM as AN EXAMPLE, what are they protesting? Let's say they're protesting police shooting black people. Okay, what are the actual stats? Of course it would be great if no one got shot by police, but people of all colors get shot by police, so, what are the stats? Do you think BLM are experts in these stat? Perhaps, and if so, they should provide them.

IN GENERAL, experts are experts in a particular domain. I'm not saying that any old expert should be able to weigh in, I'm saying that expertise should be respected - in the domain. But that identity does not convey expertise.

No, of course not but identity and expertise should be preferred to just expertise.
Let me give you an example I am familiar with - drug abuse. Now would you prefer an expert or an recovered drug abuser with expert expertise?

 

[dybmh]

The bigger problem I'm trying to address is that this is an example of mass hysteria.

bingo.

both sides.

mass hysteria.

So, Dr. Icehorse... if that's the diagnosis, what's the treatment? Is there anything that can be done *now* to relieve the symptoms?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The bigger problem I'm trying to address is that this is an example of mass hysteria. I don't know the stats, you don't know the stats, and I'm pretty sure that BLM and the vast majority of the protestors don't know the stats.

So how do you know that? Are you an expert?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do the statistics you have track unarmed citizens, or overall use of force?

I've looked at both, plus unwarranted contact which doesn't result in force.
It's certainly a problem that cops hassle people without cause, & this (per
research) afflicts blacks more than white.
Unarmed vs armed....I've not looked into that detail.

 

[columbus]

Isn't this implying that "it" ( killing or harming unarmed citizens ) happens to white people just as much as non-white people? At the very least it minimizes / diminishes the extent of the problem?

Assuming that someone was "implying" something that they didn't say, and responding to that instead of what they did say is generally known as a "strawman argument".

That's what I generally see from BLM supporters. They don't want to talk about the real threats to young black men. Lousy parenting. Rotten schools. Drug dealers protected by their communities of users.

No. They want to talk about the handful of wrongful deaths caused by the police, and only that. If anybody brings up the real threats they are assumed to be white racists.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

bingo.

both sides.

mass hysteria.

So, Dr. Icehorse... if that's the diagnosis, what's the treatment? Is there anything that can be done *now* to relieve the symptoms?

He's not a real doctor.
He just plays on on TV.

 

[dybmh]

Is there anything that can be done *now*

How about a capitalist solution? Incentivize de-escalations with monetary bonuses?

Also, body cams, 6 per uniform, two on each shoulder facing forward and backward, and 2 on the helmet facing forward and backward. Implementation and procurement would be economic stimulus during the pandemic ( if the contracts were limited to American owned businesses, of course )

 

[dybmh]

He's not a real doctor.
He just plays on on TV.

Don't we all... don't we all...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Assuming that someone was "implying" something that they didn't say, and responding to that instead of what they did say is generally known as a "strawman argument".

That's what I generally see from BLM supporters. They don't want to talk about the real threats to young black men. Lousy parenting. Rotten schools. Drug dealers protected by their communities of users.

No. They want to talk about the handful of wrongful deaths caused by the police, and only that. If anybody brings up the real threats they are assumed to be white racists.
Tom

Now I hear it differently when I listen to the news and in depth Internet sites.

 

[columbus]

So how do you know that? Are you an expert?

The stats aren't hard to find.

For example, the FBI posts stats online. They break down murders in the USA, both victims and perps, by age and race and gender. The information is available for people who want it.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Isn't this implying that "it" ( killing or harming unarmed citizens ) happens to white people just as much as non-white people? At the very least it minimizes / diminishes the extent of the problem?

That would be a mistaken inference, based
upon what I posted, & what I've read.
Consider.....
Let's say we removed all racism from policing.
And that blacks then would be abused & killed
at the same rates that whites currently are.
That would be an improvement, but a poor result.

If the focus is solely upon race, then that would
diminish the solution to the problems of police
recruitment, training, accountability, qualifications,
efficacy, management, & transparency.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The stats aren't hard to find.

For example, the FBI posts stats online. They break down murders in the USA, both victims and perps, by age and race and gender. The information is available for people who want it.
Tom

Yes, and that is all there is. No other statics or understanding is relevant. Black culture is insular and not in contact with white culture or the authorities as such. Blacks and whites never meet and influences each other. They live in different universes. Black culture is so unique as special and it is totally its own.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The stats aren't hard to find.

For example, the FBI posts stats online. They break down murders in the USA, both victims and perps, by age and race and gender. The information is available for people who want it.
Tom

Take 2:
What causes culture, crime, bad parenting and so on? You shouldn't ask that question? Why? Because then your narrative breaks down.

I mean it. Never ask a scientific question of causation for what you claim is the cause. Don't you dare ask what causes culture, crime, bad parenting and so on!

 

[columbus]

Yes, and that is all there is. No other statics or understanding is relevant. Black culture is insular and not in contact with white culture or the authorities as such. Blacks and whites never meet and influences each other. They live in different universes. Black culture is so unique as special and it is totally its own.

I have no idea why you believe this. It makes no sense to me.

But if you do, you do.

We've had other conversations here on RF which I didn't understand either. Like the one where you insisted that a person who throws a brick through a window is innocent of vandalism.
I just don't understand your logic.
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't we all... don't we all...

I play a Scottish groundskeeper.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I have no idea why you believe this. It makes no sense to me.

But if you do, you do.

We've had other conversations here on RF which I didn't understand either. Like the one where you insisted that a person who throws a brick through a window is innocent of vandalism.
I just don't understand your logic.
Tom

Read my next take on your post.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I play a Scottish groundskeeper.

I am more angry here than in RL. I am working on it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have no idea why you believe this. It makes no sense to me.

But if you do, you do.

We've had other conversations here on RF which I didn't understand either. Like the one where you insisted that a person who throws a brick through a window is innocent of vandalism.
I just don't understand your logic.
Tom

It might be a matter of perspective.
The one who pays to fix the window would call it "vandalism".

 

[Revoltingest]

Just saw an advert on TV...
"All lives can't matter until black lives matter."
I wonder what the composer of that slogan intended?
Would it change any minds for the better?
Or would eyes just roll?
It doesn't appear to be about solving any problems though.