Profiting off war in Ukraine

[Twilight Hue]

Not much freedom in a grave 6 feet under.

Russia has the resources to keep this going for several more years.

With the North Korean cannon fodder, it could be a much longer time than that.

 

[Nakosis]

Here are Putin's conditions for even starting negotiations or sitting at the table. Putin wants to keep all the territory he already controls, he wants Ukraine to give up all land that Russia claims including land that Ukraine still controls, he wants Ukraine to demilitarize and promise no alliance with the west. In other words, he wants a complete surrender before negotiations even START.

Putin lovers want exactly what Putin wants. This is not a strawman.

Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

President says as soon as Ukraine withdraws its troops from Russian-claimed regions, declares neutral status, Moscow will halt all combat operation - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

You said unconditional surrender, then provide a list of conditions.

 

[soulsurvivor]

You said unconditional surrender, then provide a list of conditions.

Giving everything that Putin wants is unconditional surrender. His conditions are that he gets everything he wants - the four provinces completely, Crimea, Ukraine demilitarized, Ukraine neutral without alliances.

It would not be unconditional, if Ukraine could put some conditions of its own - but apparently that is too complicated for you to understand.

 

[Nakosis]

but apparently that is too complicated for you to understand.

Sure, attack the poster when you don't have an argument.
Come back when you got one.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Sure, attack the poster when you don't have an argument.
Come back when you got one.Y

The argument was before that line. You conveniently ignored it. Here it is again:

It is unconditional surrender because Ukraine cannot put any conditions of its own while negotiating.

Ukraine not being able to put conditions - is otherwise known as unconditional. No conditions from Ukraine means unconditional.

Giving everything to Putin means surrendering. So, giving everything to Putin without any conditions of your own, means 'unconditional surrender.'

 

[Nakosis]

The argument was before that line. You conveniently ignored it. Here it is again:

It is unconditional surrender because Ukraine cannot put any conditions of its own while negotiating.

Ukraine not being able to put conditions - is otherwise known as unconditional. No conditions from Ukraine means unconditional.

Giving everything to Putin means surrendering. So, giving everything to Putin without any conditions of your own, means 'unconditional surrender.'

I was referring to the earlier strawman, that anyone opposed to the war wants an unconditional surrender.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I was referring to the earlier strawman, that anyone opposed to the war wants an unconditional surrender.

I did not say anyone who opposed the war wanted unconditional surrender. I said Putin wants unconditional surrender, And all Putin lovers want what Putin wants.

As for those who don't love Putin and are opposed to the war. I don't have any idea what they want to happen. Putin's conditions are unconditional surrender even before starting negotiations. So what do these people want Ukraine and its allies to do?

Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

President says as soon as Ukraine withdraws its troops from Russian-claimed regions, declares neutral status, Moscow will halt all combat operation - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[oldbadger]

How many would have to die before you decided the cost was too great?

Putin taking all Ukraine would soon produce a very large quantity of deaths. Many thousands of deaths.

It seems quite obvious that most countries in Europe do want to help Ukraine to defend against the invader.

If you want to remove yourselves from such a stand then you will.

 

[Nakosis]

Putin taking all Ukraine would soon produce a very large quantity of deaths. Many thousands of deaths.

It seems quite obvious that most countries in Europe do want to help Ukraine to defend against the invader.

If you want to remove yourselves from such a stand then you will.

There are other options to peace besides allowing Putin to take all of Ukraine.
So lets take such exacerbations out of the discussion.

 

[Nakosis]

I did not say anyone who opposed the war wanted unconditional surrender. I said Putin wants unconditional surrender, And all Putin lovers want what Putin wants.

As for those who don't love Putin and are opposed to the war. I don't have any idea what they want to happen. Putin's conditions are unconditional surrender even before starting negotiations. So what do these people want Ukraine and its allies to do?

Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

President says as soon as Ukraine withdraws its troops from Russian-claimed regions, declares neutral status, Moscow will halt all combat operation - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

As long as you understand that not everyone who is against the continuation of the war in Ukraine is a Putin fan.

 

[soulsurvivor]

As long as you understand that not everyone who is against the continuation of the war in Ukraine is a Putin fan.

As long as you understand that any non-Putinfan who is against the continuation of war has absolutely no idea how to stop Putin's aggression and end the war. They just want Ukraine to surrender as Putin demands (maybe they do not actually say so)

 

[oldbadger]

There are other options to peace besides allowing Putin to take all of Ukraine.
So lets take such exacerbations out of the discussion.

What options are possible?

 

[Nakosis]

What options are possible?

Like what 52% of the people of Ukraine want. Allow Russia to keep the 1/5th of Ukraine they currently hold in exchange for an end to the war.

Also, hopefully letting people who want to be part of Russia and those who don't immigrate appropriately.

 

[Nakosis]

As long as you understand that any non-Putinfan who is against the continuation of war has absolutely no idea how to stop Putin's aggression and end the war. They just want Ukraine to surrender as Putin demands (maybe they do not actually say so)

Do you have an idea how to stop Putin's aggression?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Do you have an idea how to stop Putin's aggression?

The only way is to continue arming Ukraine and hope the Russian people will get tired of losing lives and money every month (interest rates are at 21% in Russia). This will take at least 2-3 years.

Ukraine may not last that long because of its smaller population, so Poland may need to provide soldiers. It is unfortunate but Putin does not care how many lives are lost on both sides.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Look, if you don't want to do what your God tells you to, just join with us pagan types and then you can hate..... all day long.
But if you cherry pick from what Jesus said then you might have joined with us without knowing it.

Christians have chosen Barabbas. The irony is completely lost on them.

 

[Nakosis]

The only way is to continue arming Ukraine and hope the Russian people will get tired of losing lives and money every month (interest rates are at 21% in Russia). This will take at least 2-3 years.

Ukraine may not last that long because of its smaller population, so Poland may need to provide soldiers. It is unfortunate but Putin does not care how many lives are lost on both sides.

That's my view, Russia can keep at this longer than Ukraine.
To continue the war, I only see Ukraine losing more than it has already lost.
I think at this point, Ukraine has stalled the invasion enough to make Putin willing to negotiate.
As time goes on, and Ukraine resources and internal sentiment wane, Putin will have less reason to negotiate.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Here are Putin's conditions for even starting negotiations or sitting at the table. Putin wants to keep all the territory he already controls, he wants Ukraine to give up all land that Russia claims including land that Ukraine still controls, he wants Ukraine to demilitarize and promise no alliance with the west. In other words, he wants a complete surrender before negotiations even START.

Putin lovers want exactly what Putin wants. This is not a strawman.

Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

President says as soon as Ukraine withdraws its troops from Russian-claimed regions, declares neutral status, Moscow will halt all combat operation - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

IOW, he wants the war to continue.

 

[soulsurvivor]

As time goes on, and Ukraine resources and internal sentiment wane, Putin will have less reason to negotiate.

As of now Putin is not negotiating. Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

 

[Nakosis]

As of now Putin is not negotiating. Putin lists Russia's conditions for peace talks with Ukraine

Russia and Ukraine came close to an agreement in 2022, but that was nixed by Boris Johnson since the West was not yet ready to end the war.