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Proof of evolution -at last-

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I would use other means like a trap, tranquilizer gun etc. Don’t see them ruling over human beings do you? Not happening

You're assuming you're going to be in possession of a tranquilizer gun when you encounter a shark or a lion who could rip you apart in seconds.
Wait, did the people in the BIble have tranq guns? Try not to miss the point, please.

How does science deal with consciousness?
It studies, observes and measures it.

And witchcraft is demonic, I wasn’t possessed but controlled by the demonic spiritual realm as explained in Ephesians 2.
Oh is it? When did you demonstrate that?
When did anyone show there is a spirit realm, or a demon, or anything that you've claimed here? Why do you so readily believe things for which there is no evidence while simultaneously rejecting things for which there is actually evidence? That's not rational.

So do you think we should still be killing witches, as the Bible tells us to do?
 
And I countered your assertion by pointing out that if abiogenesis as you describe it, is impossible, then it would have been impossible for your God to have created anything.
Weird how you didn't respond to that. :shrug:
God has life in Himself, is Eternal, the only one who could create everything.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
God has life in Himself, is Eternal, the only one who could create everything.
Which doesn't address the question and isn't in evidence.

You don't get to make rules about things and then just declare the God you worship (and haven't ever demonstrated the existence of) defies all the rules you just laid out. That's silly and irrational.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
lol, I understand that "evidence" is not a law.

Correct!!! So what.

I have respect for you, shunyadragon

The problem is your disrespect for science as science, and yes your self imposed ignorance based on a religious agenda. I could care less concerning your respect for me.

, but I think your self-imposed zeal for believing in evolution as the way life moved along without question of its veracity, and abiogenesis, is something that is, shall we say, astounding. Anyway, have a good night/day, wherever you are.

. . . but??? Ducking out does not address the science, which you reject science as science for an ancient religious agenda without acience,
 
Oh is it? When did you demonstrate that?
When did anyone show there is a spirit realm, or a demon, or anything that you've claimed here? Why do you so readily believe things for which there is no evidence while simultaneously rejecting things for which there is actually evidence? That's not rational.
I’m living in the spiritual realm and can see it because I’ve been born again, you can’t because you’re spiritual dead or blind to it. There’s plenty of demon possessed people doing all kinds of sick things in our world, this is motivated by Satan. Who do you think is behind the push for the one world government? This is a set up for the Anti-Christ to be revealed, haven’t you been paying attention ? All written in the Bible
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I understand that the ToE says it takes a long time for different forms to evolve. A real long time with no genetic proof of any sort, only conjecture. The intermediate forms are not there in reality. In theory, yes, but not really in reality. However, and it's a big however, bats remain bats, whether they're blind or not, same with fishes. There is no proof absolutely that dinosaurs 'become,' or rather evolved to birds.

The genetic evidence is overwhelming objective verifiable evidence and you absolutely know nothing of genetics!?!?!?! (. . . not proof . . . lol for your intentional ignorance of science!!!!).

Yes, evolution took billions of years.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I’m living in the spiritual realm and can see it because I’ve been born again, you can’t because you’re spiritual dead or blind to it. There’s plenty of demon possessed people doing all kinds of sick things in our world, this is motivated by Satan. Who do you think is behind the push for the one world government? This is a set up for the Anti-Christ to be revealed, haven’t you been paying attention ? All written in the Bible
That's not evidence and you're now bordering on conspiracy, which requires even more evidence.

I've already asked you when someone demonstrated that there's a spiritual realm and demons and all you can do is here just keep piling assertion on top of assertion.
I can make things up too, but I'm interested in believing true things.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Appears to be great example of an active imagination of a mind that has rejected the truth and descended into madness.
Im sticking with The Genesis 1 account of Creation, it makes more sense.
Even Jews don't interpret Genesis literally, and it's their book. The only people who interpret Genesis literally are conservative Christians. No one else does except for a few conservative Muslims. Creationism not only has no basis in fact but is also contrary to fact and conclusions in science. So you might feel attracted to creationism and want it ti be valid, but the evidence doesn't support your belief.
 
Even Jews don't interpret Genesis literally, and it's their book. The only people who interpret Genesis literally are conservative Christians. No one else does except for a few conservative Muslims. Creationism not only has no basis in fact but is also contrary to fact and conclusions in science. So you might feel attracted to creationism and want it ti be valid, but the evidence doesn't support your belief.
I’m attracted to Jesus Christ, He holds everything together by His Word, He demonstrated that when He walked the Earth. Don’t care much about the opinions of unbelievers.
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
Regarding taxonomy: Genesis 2:20 & Genesis 2:24 We're doing this with taxonomy. 'Man' and 'Woman' of Homo sapiens sapiens included. And I am unsure what verses you're saying argue against evolution.

A person needs Jesus’ righteousness of perfection.

Mark 10:17-18 Tells me the way to the kingdom is humility and faith. When asked how to get there, Jesus shows the rich kid through his words of humility and devotion to God, regardless his stature as Christ.
I won't deny you can get there by mimicking or attempting to be Christlike. That's why Jesus was so keen to talk in analogy and imagery to the masses. If one can envision it one can attempt to replicate.
I will argue it being the only way to the only One. Spirit is All, All is Spirit. Mark 3:28-29.
I will admit it incredibly difficult and humble, but if you're posting or reading on a computer/phone, you're not doing it right. Jesus mocked a bunch of people for not giving away all their worldly goods so that they may find the kingdom and thus gain everything.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
God has life in Himself, is Eternal, the only one who could create everything.
I'm not convinced, show us the facts that your claim is true.

Do you think the 9-11 hijackers were doing God's will? They were as fervent as you are and all they provided us was claims as well. Should we accept your claims as well as theirs since neither of you offer evidence?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I’m attracted to Jesus Christ, He holds everything together by His Word, He demonstrated that when He walked the Earth. Don’t care much about the opinions of unbelievers.
So what does this have to do with interpreting Genesis literally when even Jews don't? Are you suggesting that Jews don't know their own book?
 
So what does this have to do with interpreting Genesis literally when even Jews don't? Are you suggesting that Jews don't know their own book?
Depends which Jews you’re talking about, my wife is a Jew she believes in the Genesis account and all the Bible as did the Jews in the Bible and early Church, most importantly the author Jesus Christ.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings, precious...
Lets look at Brian Ford for instance.
Here we have an Evolutionist.
And an atheist.
One of your highly educated scientists.
He gives sound evidence and observed facts that it was not possible for Dinosaurs to be that tall, to have walked onl and.
He proves that they were aquatic, he proves that the Earth must have been a marshy environment with huge forrests and lakes to have supported theae dinosaurs.

Guess what?
All his evidence means nothing to the establishment!
Why, because he is proving a change in the religion of established theories which no ons should even attempt.

Evolutionists are so closeminded they resemble clay figurines unable to get anything into their ears to change their mind!

Ford spends a few chapters showing how the estanlishment of Evolutionist scientists belittle him wrongly.
The attetude of the elite priests of evolution is just horrendous!

Now, why do I use Ford to compare him in this regard?
To demonstrate that scientists are totally bias, and can not even change their views on how the world looked like during the age of dinosaurs, even if it comes from a scientist with the same religion..

Well, I had never heard of Ford (not a dinosaur guy), so I had to look this up. I found Ford's original 'research' - it was an essay on his personal web site. The creationist above refers to a book, so Ford probably took the standard creationist route of whining in book form when the "orthodoxy" did not bow down to his greatness.
Which was not all that great. I also found this - which I reproduce much of below - and one will note that the rebuttal provides citations, whereas Ford's original essay had none. Turns out Ford appears to be a Shapiro-style egotist upset that he did not become a star based on his inaccurate claims.

No wonder creationists like his story - while he is not a creationist, he acts just like them.


As readers interested in dinosaurs will know, Ford made something of a name for himself in the world of vertebrate palaeontology back in 2012 by announcing that palaeontologists have gotten dinosaurs completely wrong. Non-bird Mesozoic dinosaurs were, so says Ford, perpetually aquatic animals that actually sloshed around, shoulder-deep, in the water and were completely unsuited for life on land: the mainstream palaeontological view that these animals were strongly adapted for terrestrial life is, so he says, misguided and woefully wrong.
Ford published an article announcing his infallible hypothesis in science newszine Laboratory News (Ford 2012). Aided and abetted by an inciteful media, his idea received gargantuan coverage in the global press. Instinct told me to ignore the whole circus – in any case, colleagues were already doing a good job of saying what nonsense it was. Alas, I was specifically invited to produce a response and eventually decided, as a damage-limitation exercise, to do so (Naish 2012).
[...]
Needless to say, all of these claims are erroneous and easy to contradict based on the data we have. I’d like to hope that this was all obvious to the people in the audience, but sadly it’s human nature to assume that a person who speaks with authority on an unfamiliar topic is reliable and likely correct, so don’t get your hopes up.
[...]
Sauropods, no matter what Ford may like to tell us, are built like long-tailed, long-necked elephants. They mostly have deep bodies, slender limbs and proportionally small, compact hands and feet – precisely the opposite of what we’d see if they were built for routine life in the water. Those of you who know the dinosaur literature will be aware of the fact that the precise same arguments were used long ago to dispel the erroneous 20thcentury view that sauropods were perpetual swamp-dwellers (Bakker 1971, Coombs 1975): those arguments have been widely accepted by palaeontologists because they appear to be valid, not because (contra Ford) palaeontologists are dogmatically adhering to a status quo because they’re worried about losing research funding or whatever. [*NOTE - that fear of losing funding thing is a classic creationist trope!*]
[...]
Then there’s the extensive skeletal and soft-tissue pneumatisation we know that sauropods had. Ford ignores this, doesn’t mention it and might even (for all I know) be wholly unaware of it, but it’s been shown that sauropods were so air-filled (the bones of some species being up to 89% air) that – if and when they did swim – they must have floated high in the water and been prone to tipping (Henderson 2003). Again, their anatomy shows that they were not suited for a life in water, contra Ford. The extensive tooth wear we see in sauropods is also indicative of a terrestrial life that involved the stripping and biting of foliage belonging to ferns, conifers and so on.
[...]
Within recent years evidence has gradually come together indicating that Spinosaurus – a long-snouted, sail-backed giant theropod from the Upper Cretaceous of northern Africa – was adapted for a life at the water’s edge, and the newest data shows that it has strongly reduced medullary cavities in its long bones, proportionally short hindlimbs, a spreading, functionally four-toed, probably fully webbed foot, and other specialisations for an amphibious or even fully aquatic life (Ibrahim et al. 2014). Ford takes this as support for his primary contention, but he’s cheating.

Firstly, the idea that Spinosaurus might be aquatic isn’t an idea that the community has been contesting, nor was Ford the first to invent it. Au contraire: as more and more data has come in, we’ve seen Spinosaurus make the metaphorical transition from an animal that waded at the water’s edge (Taquet 1984) to one that routinely swam (Amiot et al. 2010) to one that was predominantly aquatic (Ibrahim et al. 2014). We’ve made this transition on the basis of the accruing of evidence – you know, the sort of thing that scientists are supposed to do. Does what we think about Spinosaurus apply to other big theropods, or to other big dinosaurs, as Ford insists? No. The aquatic features of Spinosaurus are (so far as we know at the moment) unique to Spinosaurus, making it wrong for Ford to point to this one taxon and say “I told you so!”.
[...]
Ford’s contention about the alleged aquatic habits of dinosaurs makes a good story. It makes for an entertaining talk, and it's a fun topic of the sort that journalists love to write about. Why? Predominantly because Ford can be portrayed as the lone truther battling against a barbarian swarm of opposition. We love stories like this. And a big part of the Ford lecture that I listened to wasn’t about dinosaurs themselves, or about science, but about the ‘community reaction’ to his idea, about the fact that angry palaeontologists and palaeontological writers reacted with abject hostility to his idea (he referred to Brian Switek’s article on a few occasions).

In fact, Ford specifically said that he was surprised at the venomosity and aggression contained in these responses. They clearly prove, so he said, the existence of a blinkered and biased approach in the mainstream palaeontological community, a vested commitment in the textbook dogma that museum displays, research careers and those ubiquitous and easy-to-obtain financial grants are all so dependent on. Such is the appeal of this lone truther concept that – so Ford told us – a book and even a Hollywood movie (all movies are made in Hollywood, right?) are perhaps going to result. Oh puh-leez, pass the sick bucket.

And so on...
Creationists like Ford's story because, intellectually/egotistically, they are kindred spirits.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Here is something I can agree with
Do you think you know the Torah better than Jews?

Do you think you have adequate expertise in science to reject and dismiss the results of professional scientists in biology and other sciences?

For you to be correct in your religious beliefs many tens of thousands of scientists have to be wrong. And they are wrong by following facts and data. How do you explain this?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Depends which Jews you’re talking about, my wife is a Jew she believes in the Genesis account and all the Bible as did the Jews in the Bible and early Church, most importantly the author Jesus Christ.
Well she is only one, and she is likely being influenced by your beliefs.

I'm referring to Jews as the whole, not just your wife's opinion.
 
Well she is only one, and she is likely being influenced by your beliefs.

I'm referring to Jews as the whole, not just your wife's opinion.
There’s no way our thinking is the same, yours and my definition of terms aren’t even the same so how can we ever come to terms on anything? My wife was a believer before we met, to say the Jews don’t believe in the literal text of Genesis and Creation isn’t true either, some Jews do and some don’t.
 
Do you think you know the Torah better than Jews?

Do you think you have adequate expertise in science to reject and dismiss the results of professional scientists in biology and other sciences?

For you to be correct in your religious beliefs many tens of thousands of scientists have to be wrong. And they are wrong by following facts and data. How do you explain this?
Many scientists are wrong and they have facts, sure but then their interpretation of those facts are the problem.
Have you answered the question of consciousness?
The human genome?
Science cannot figure these out so to say evolution apart from God did this, just doesn’t make any sense at all. Then for you to say you have facts when science cannot explain life, laws etc. Earth hanging in space on nothing and just a slight wobble and we are all dead and you say there isn’t any God. Well, ok you can but that thinking really doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Do you think you know the Torah better than Jews?
Would be a diss on the Jews if me a Gentile knows the Torah better than they do. But if they don’t believe God for the Creation account in Genesis then yes I do know the Torah better and they have gone the way of the Kings that forsook God for Idols.
 
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