Proof of Islam?

[Trailblazer]

Why do we need to follow uneducated people? It was perhaps OK for Arabia in 7th Century. But why in 19th Century?

You do not need to follow them unless you want to. You would only follow them if you want knowledge about God.
The educated people do not know about God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You do not need to follow them unless you want to. You would only follow them if you want knowledge about God.
The educated people do not know about God.

How can they know about God when God hides himself from the world. He has never shown his presence. Has he come to stop Corona virus? Did he come to help the people of Aceh in earthquakes or tsunamis? Did he appear in Japan to stop American atomic bombing? Did he come to Syria and Iraq to stop atrocities on women by followers of Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi? Do you mean that all who worship God/Allah are uneducated? You say strange things. Is it because of your faith?

 

[Trailblazer]

How can they know about God when God hides himself from the world. He has never shown his presence.

God does not have to show Himself in order to speak to the Messengers.

Has he come to stop Corona virus? Did he come to help the people of Aceh in earthquakes or tsunamis? Did he appear in Japan to stop American atomic bombing? Did he come to Syria and Iraq to stop atrocities on women by followers of Abu-Bakr al-Baghdadi?

No, God does not intervene in human affairs.

Do you mean that all who worship God/Allah are uneducated? You say strange things. Is it because of your faith?

No, that is not what I meant. Many believers are highly educated. I meant that a Messenger of God does not get His knowledge by going to school. Rather, He has innate knowledge and He also gets knowledge from God.

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred.”” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57

 

[Duncan]

Why do you have those books or how did you get hold of them and for what purpose? What do you think of them and why?

Well brother a friend in Israel who follow that cult offered me the books and made me promise to read them and give him my opinion, and as mentioned previously, the Baha‘i follow the teaching of Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri (1817-1892) whose title is Baha’ullah which mean in Arabic (‘The Splendor of God’). As opposed to Muslims who believe Prophet Muhammad to be God’s last prophet to humanity, Baha’ullah believed himself to be the prophet foretold by Sayid Ali Muhammad Shirazi, the founder of the Babi movement. Baha’ullah contradicted the Muslim belief that Abraham, Moses, and Jesus were prophets and not divine. He taught, instead, that God had become manifest in many different forms such as Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, the Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, the ‘Bab’ and Baha’ullah himself. Baha’ullah is not, however, the final and definitive manifestation of God. Other prophets will come, but not for at least 1000 years.

This belief opposes the most fundamental aspect of Islam, which is the distinction made between the creation and the Creator. Islam firmly believes that God is separate and distinct from His creation, and that He never did or will become human. The prophets He sent were fully human, but chosen to deliver His message to humanity. Worship is to be rendered to God only, and not to any created being. Nest in importance to this belief is the belief is that Muhammad was the last and final prophet sent to all of humanity, and the message of Islam is the final message of God, and none other will come until the Day of Judgment. These two principles form the basis and most fundamental principle of Islamic faith, the first pillar of Islam, one clearly contradicted in Baha’i faith.

There are no initiation rites, priesthood or sacraments in the Baha’i religion. However, Baha’is do have certain duties, and are obliged to pray every day (although their prayer is different from that practiced by Muslims); they are also obliged to meet on the first day of each Baha’i month for celebration; to fast from dawn to sunset during the month of ‘Ala (while Muslims fast in Ramadan); to avoid drugs or alcohol; to avoid membership of political parties; and to observe particular holy days such as the birth of Baha’ullah and the martyrdom of the ‘Bab’. Emphasis is placed in their propagation on the unity of humanity and the absolute equality of men and women, and the Baha’is see themselves as working towards the establishment of a world government which will eradicate extremes of wealth and poverty.

previously I talked about the Baha ulla claims to be God, also the Baha’i pride themselves on the Twelve Principles or twelve teachings, which they promulgate. Baha’i speakers focus heavily on these principles considering that these are the best that can be found in any religion. Seven out of the twelve Principles revolve around Unity. You have :

Unity in the political realm.

Unity in the worldly matters.

Unity in freedom.

Unity in religion.

Unity in the nation.

Unity in the tongue.

Unity in genealogy.

Nevertheless, Baha’i history and doctrine contravene these principles. The Baha’is killed Mohammad Ibrahim by throwing him into the river Tigris for not believing in Baha’ullah’s call you can read that yourself in the Book of Haji Maftoon p23. They attempted to assassinate Nasiruddin Shah, the king of Iran. Baha’ullah killed one hundred and thirty people in one night and plundered their belongings.Again you can verify that in Nuktatul Qaf p161 Baha’ullah ill treated his brother Subhe Azal and Abdul-Baha did worse to his brother Mohammad Ali. Ironically, among the Baha’is themselves there are at least two major divisions at loggerheads with each other - the 3rd generation Baha’i and the Orthodox Baha’i. Lastly, the Baha’is have yet to officially announce the alphabet of the new language they have invented for every person in the world.

There are various intolerant ideas preached by the Baha’is found in the Babi cult before them which have no basis in Islam:

“Babis! God has made war obligatory upon you. Capture cities and people for Babism.” you have that in Bayan chapter 1

“Do not let those who do not believe in the Bayan remain on the earth.” Bayan chapter 1

“Snatch the wealth of those who do not believe in the Bayan.” Bayan Arabic chapter 5

“Rejecters of Bab! Even if you take a bath 1000 times in a day, you shall remain unclean.” Bayan chapter 2

“Whatever belongings of the non-Babis come into possession of the Babis they become clean.” Bayan chapter 4

You know the good thing is when you study other religion and compare them to the religion of God, you can notice the big gap. The Baha’is differ from Muslims in the most fundamental Islamic beliefs and practices. Their leaders have made extraordinary claims to divinity similar to other religious cults. Although they seem to preach peace and unity, their history has been marred by violence. Their history and original teachings also contradict their averred concept of world peace and gender equality.

 

[Duncan]

Of course you believe that, you are a Muslim. But that does not mean it is true. You have no more proof of your beliefs than I do. The Baha'i Faith is not a movement, it is a divinely revealed religion of God, just like Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The Bab and Baha'u'llah received a Revelation from God, just as Muhammad did.

Because Muhammad got His knowledge from God, just like Baha'u'llah who only had a rudimentary education.

Muhammad did what He did for the sake of God, just like Baha'u'llah did.

The Revelation of Baha'u'llah was revealed over a period of 40 years, from 1852-1892

The Baha'is do not believe Arabs wrote the Qur'an. We believe it was revealed to Muhammad by the Angel Gabriel and it was dictated by Muhammad to scribes who wrote it down later.

God cannot write. Only men can write. The Qur'an is a Revelation from God through Muhammad.

It doesn`t make sense, You are saying baha ulla was a prophet like Muhammed, Jesus, Moises peace be upon them, and you also said that he believe in them and the revelation from God like the Quran, but The Holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is the last of the divine prophets. After His Eminence, no other prophet is going to be sent by God. The Prophet of Islam, from the beginning of his mission, introduced himself as the seal of the prophets and was accepted by the Muslims as such. The subject of finality of prophethood in the Islamic milieu is considered to be an important matter and it is not in need of evidence.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.(33:40)

Saad Ibn Abi Waqqas has narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah said to Ali :

You are to me as Harun was to Musa peace be upon him, except that there is no prophet after me.

It is narrated from Abu Huraira that he said:

The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him said: I have been sent for all the people of the world and prophethood has ended with me.

Abu Amama has narrated from the Holy Prophet peace be upon him that he said:

O people, no prophet is to come after me and there is no nation (Ummah) after you. So worship Allah, perform the five daily ritual prayers, observe the fasts of the month of Ramadan, perform the Hajj of Kaaba and pay the Zakat of your wealth, so that your selves are purified. Also obey the ones who are vested with authority among you so that you may enter Paradise.

You see baha ulla was a man who proclaim divinity, people before him did it and there are still people in nowadays who proclaim divinity, the last prophet was Muhammed peace be upon him and the last book of Allah was the Quran.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God does not have to show Himself in order to speak to the Messengers.
No, God does not intervene in human affairs.
No, that is not what I meant. Many believers are highly educated. I meant that a Messenger of God does not get His knowledge by going to school. Rather, He has innate knowledge and He also gets knowledge from God.

Allah does not meet the messengers, he does not talk to them. The messengers get brain-waves. If Allah can send brain-waves to messengers, why does not he send those waves to other people also? And why should I believe in someone else's brain-wave or disturbance, I do not know what it might have been and for what purpose? I believe in my own brain-waves.
If he does not, then for all practical purposes, he is a useless entity.
I wish Bahaollah had some modern education. In that case he would not have considered Adam and Noah as manifestations of Allah, and accepted them for what they are - myths. Would not have believed in prophecies. He might have accepted that women also have brains and that LGBTQ have an equal right to life. But we can't expect things like that from uneducated people.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

That is a difficult question for me to answer since I do not know everything that is in the Qur'an.
Suffice to say that the Baha'i Faith is not an offshoot of Islam; it is an independent Revelation from God and it has new social teachings and new laws as well as a new message from God, as noted below..

Some of the central teachings of Baha'u'llah are as follows: Bahá'í teachings - Wikipedia

The primary underpinning of the Baha'i Faith is Progressive Revelation

Progressive revelation is a core teaching in the Bahá'í Faith that suggests that religious truth is revealed by God progressively and cyclically over time through a series of divine Messengers, and that the teachings are tailored to suit the needs of the time and place of their appearance.[1][2] Thus, the Bahá'í teachings recognize the divine origin of several world religions as different stages in the history of one religion, while believing that the revelation of Bahá'u'lláh is the most recent (though not the last—that there will never be a last), and therefore the most relevant to modern society.[1 ]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_revelation_Baha'i

The primary message of Baha'u'llah that was new for this age in history is the unity of mankind.

“My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286

“The Purpose of the one true God, exalted be His glory, in revealing Himself unto men is to lay bare those gems that lie hidden within the mine of their true and inmost selves. That the divers communions of the earth, and the manifold systems of religious belief, should never be allowed to foster the feelings of animosity among men, is, in this Day, of the essence of the Faith of God and His Religion. These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source, and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.

The utterance of God is a lamp, whose light is these words: Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. He Who is the Day Star of Truth beareth Me witness! So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 287-288

Since Baha'Ullah seemed to not discredit the Qur'an and it is considered at least somewhat important that it is at least made mention of, maybe you would be interested in finding the time read its verses at www.islamawakened.com/quran which has numerous translations and resources for every verse. If you notice a translation you particularly like, you might seek out a copy of that.

In reading the Qur'an, you may discover that there is no difference at all between the teachings of Baha'Ullah and what is in the Qur'an, or you may discover points where Baha'Ullah had brought differences or updates.

Personally, I don't find the Qur'an to be very archaic or dated seeming considering its agem and it seems easily relevant and applicable today.

In reading the Qur'an thoroughly and carefully even once in English and with your knowledge of the Bahai religion, you may end up discovering many things you enjoy or which enhance your understanding and readings of Bahai literature, ideasm, and statements even though the Bahai religion is considered separate now or independent of the Qur'an or whatever the official stance may be.

I'd strongly reccomend everyone to do this, atheists, Christians, friends and enemies if Islam and Muslims, since such a huge population considers this book called the Qur'an important and influential in one way or another, fluency in it is like fluency in a language spoken by numerous people which also may give better ways to moderate their behaviors, statements, or actions, giving an advantage in discussions.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Allah does not meet the messengers, he does not talk to them. The messengers get brain-waves. If Allah can send brain-waves to messengers, why does not he send those waves to other people also? And why should I believe in someone else's brain-wave or disturbance, I do not know what it might have been and for what purpose? I believe in my own brain-waves.
If he does not, then for all practical purposes, he is a useless entity.
I wish Bahaollah had some modern education. In that case he would not have considered Adam and Noah as manifestations of Allah, and accepted them for what they are - myths. Would not have believed in prophecies. He might have accepted that women also have brains and that LGBTQ have an equal right to life. But we can't expect things like that from uneducated people.

Interesting idea! "Myths are the manifestations of Allah" "Allah sends brainwaves and has not sent some the same brain waves as others". I love it!

 

[Aupmanyav]

Allah feeds myth ideas, myths feed Allah idea. Both derive strength from each other.

 

[Trailblazer]

Allah does not meet the messengers, he does not talk to them. The messengers get brain-waves. If Allah can send brain-waves to messengers, why does not he send those waves to other people also?

Because other people do not have the divine mind that is able to receive those brain-waves.
Also because God does not choose to send them to ordinary people.

And why should I believe in someone else's brain-wave or disturbance, I do not know what it might have been and for what purpose? I believe in my own brain-waves.

Nobody said you should, belief should always be a choice.

 

[Tober Canton]

How can they know about God when God hides himself from the world.

It's impossible for God to hide itself, I don't think you understand Tawhid in Islam. Allah is the All, it encompasses everything and everything returns to it after physical death. It is distinct from everything as the source but it covers everything as the Divine Unity (Tawhid).
There is No God but God (La ilaha illa'llah) - as to explicate, nothing exists but God.

The Islamic view of the Divine is a total subsuming of both Advaita (God's Unity, encompassing all) and Dvaita (God being absolutely incomprehensibly different from the Universe, being it's source).


Also check out this well written article: Tafsir(Sura 11:5-6) Transparency before God

 

[Trailblazer]

It doesn`t make sense, After His Eminence, no other prophet is going to be sent by God. The Prophet of Islam, from the beginning of his mission, introduced himself as the seal of the prophets and was accepted by the Muslims as such. The subject of finality of prophethood in the Islamic milieu is considered to be an important matter and it is not in need of evidence.

Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing.(33:40)

In response ton that I am going to post what @ adrian009 posted on this forum four months ago:

HI @Link
Its great you speak Arabic. I don't speak Arabic and rely on the English translations of which I include several for Quran 33:40:

Sahih International: Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Pickthall: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.

Yusuf Ali: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.

Shakir: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.

Muhammad Sarwar: Muhammad is not the father of any of your males. He is the Messenger of God and the last Prophet. God has the knowledge of all things.

Mohsin Khan: Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever AllAware of everything.

Arberry: Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but the Messenger of God, and the Seal of the Prophets; God has knowledge of everything.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

Of course there is not a single English translation that says Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. In plain English 'Seal of the Prophets' does not mean Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. So it comes down to the Arabic and meanings of words that are not captured well with translation into another language.

As you speak Arabic then you may appreciate the use of the words Rasool and Nabi in regards the Quran generally and specifically verse 33:40. The reference to these two Arabic words appears highly relevant and their juxtaposition crucial not just to each other but to the phrase "I am not the father of mankind". One analysis considering Sura 33 as a whole could be in regards to Muhammad being sonless and how his marriage to Zaynab is perceived. However, I believe the phrase is an allusion to the Prophet Adam who was the Father of all mankind. So when Muhammad speaks of being the seal of the Prophets, He speaks of being the last of the lineage of Prophets (Nabi) from Adam to Himself. That makes sense historically because there have been no more Prophets of that lineage. However He does not claim to be the seal of the Messengers or Rasools.

So Muhammad being the seal of the Prophets clearly alludes to a lineage of Prophets from Adam to Muhammad. Baha’is call this the Adamic cycle which we believe ended with the advent of the Madhi (the Bab) during 1844. Baha'u'llah in His work the Kitab-i-Iqan alludes to with the phrase 'seal of the Prophets' and how the phrase is applicable to other Messengers/Rasool. This concept is clearly supported by Christian scripture. For example in the Book of Revelation 22:13 we have reference to Christ being the ‘Alpha and the Omega’, or the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet. In that sense Christ is also the beginning and end and the seal of the Prophets as with Muhammad.

#2adrian009, Wednesday at 8:37 PM

You see baha ulla was a man who proclaim divinity, people before him did it and there are still people in nowadays who proclaim divinity, the last prophet was Muhammed peace be upon him and the last book of Allah was the Quran.

Baha'u'llah claimed to be a Manifestation of God, not God.
Baha'u'llah never claimed divinity, He denied the allegations that He claimed to be God.

“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228

 

[Trailblazer]

Since Baha'Ullah seemed to not discredit the Qur'an and it is considered at least somewhat important that it is at least made mention of, maybe you would be interested in finding the time read its verses at www.islamawakened.com/quran which has numerous translations and resources for every verse. If you notice a translation you particularly like, you might seek out a copy of that.

In reading the Qur'an, you may discover that there is no difference at all between the teachings of Baha'Ullah and what is in the Qur'an, or you may discover points where Baha'Ullah had brought differences or updates.

Thanks, I hope to eventually have time to read the Qur'an, although I do not have time right now.
If you want to better understand the relationship between the Baha'i Faith and Islam, I recommend you read
The Kitáb-i-Íqán.

The Kitáb-i-Íqán (Persian: كتاب ايقان‎, Arabic: كتاب الإيقان‎ "The Book of Certitude") is one of many books held sacred by followers of the Bahá'í Faith; it is their primary theological work. One Bahá'í scholar states that it can be regarded as the "most influential Quran commentary in Persian outside the Muslim world," because of its international audience.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the Book of Iqan or simply The Iqan.

The book is in two parts: the first part deals with the foundational discourse that divine revelation is progressive and religions are related to one another, with each major monotheistic religion accepting the previous ones and, often in veiled terms, prophesying the advent of the next one. Since the questioner is a Muslim, Bahá'u'lláh uses verses from the Bible to show how a Christian could interpret his own sacred texts in allegorical terms to come to believe in the next dispensation. By extension the same method of interpretation can be used for a Muslim to see the validity of the claims of the Báb. The second and larger part of the book is the substantive discourse and deals with specific proofs, both theological and logical, of the mission of the Báb. One of the best-known and best-loved passages of this part is known as the "Tablet of the True Seeker."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitáb-i-Íqán

Personally, I don't find the Qur'an to be very archaic or dated seeming considering its age and it seems easily relevant and applicable today.

I believe it is certainly more relevant to today's world than the Bible, and the spiritual teachings are just as relevant as the spiritual teachings in the Writings of Baha'ullah, since they are essentially the same.

In reading the Qur'an thoroughly and carefully even once in English and with your knowledge of the Bahai religion, you may end up discovering many things you enjoy or which enhance your understanding and readings of Bahai literature, ideasm, and statements even though the Bahai religion is considered separate now or independent of the Qur'an or whatever the official stance may be.

I am sure I would discover that, and I feel somewhat recalcitrant in my duties as a Baha'i who has not even read the Qur'an, but there is some personal history behind that since I only recently even read many of the Baha'i Writings with serious intent I never did post my personal story on here.

I'd strongly reccomend everyone to do this, atheists, Christians, friends and enemies if Islam and Muslims, since such a huge population considers this book called the Qur'an important and influential in one way or another, fluency in it is like fluency in a language spoken by numerous people which also may give better ways to moderate their behaviors, statements, or actions, giving an advantage in discussions.

I would recommend the same.

 

[Tober Canton]

Thanks, I hope to eventually have time to read the Qur'an, although I do not have time right now.
If you want to better understand the relationship between the Baha'i Faith and Islam, I recommend you read
The Kitáb-i-Íqán.

The Kitáb-i-Íqán (Persian: كتاب ايقان‎, Arabic: كتاب الإيقان‎ "The Book of Certitude") is one of many books held sacred by followers of the Bahá'í Faith; it is their primary theological work. One Bahá'í scholar states that it can be regarded as the "most influential Quran commentary in Persian outside the Muslim world," because of its international audience.[1] It is sometimes referred to as the Book of Iqan or simply The Iqan.

The book is in two parts: the first part deals with the foundational discourse that divine revelation is progressive and religions are related to one another, with each major monotheistic religion accepting the previous ones and, often in veiled terms, prophesying the advent of the next one. Since the questioner is a Muslim, Bahá'u'lláh uses verses from the Bible to show how a Christian could interpret his own sacred texts in allegorical terms to come to believe in the next dispensation. By extension the same method of interpretation can be used for a Muslim to see the validity of the claims of the Báb. The second and larger part of the book is the substantive discourse and deals with specific proofs, both theological and logical, of the mission of the Báb. One of the best-known and best-loved passages of this part is known as the "Tablet of the True Seeker."

Interestingly, as you say that you haven't read the Qur'an (which is one of the most profound texts ever written, hardly anything surpasses it), you'd be intrigued to learn that a considerable amount of the first half of the Kitab i-Iqan is an expanded commentary on Surah Hud (11th Surah of the Qur'an).
The Kitab i-Iqan doesn't solely focus on it though but it is very much a foundation of the Kitab i-Iqan, but brought into the current dispensation of Prophet Baha'u'llah

Basically, Prophet Hud, Prophet Salih, Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad the the Bab (general structure).

 

[Trailblazer]

Nevertheless, Baha’i history and doctrine contravene these principles. The Baha’is killed Mohammad Ibrahim by throwing him into the river Tigris for not believing in Baha’ullah’s call you can read that yourself in the Book of Haji Maftoon p23. They attempted to assassinate Nasiruddin Shah, the king of Iran. Baha’ullah killed one hundred and thirty people in one night and plundered their belongings.Again you can verify that in Nuktatul Qaf p161 Baha’ullah ill treated his brother Subhe Azal and Abdul-Baha did worse to his brother Mohammad Ali. Ironically, among the Baha’is themselves there are at least two major divisions at loggerheads with each other - the 3rd generation Baha’i and the Orthodox Baha’i. Lastly, the Baha’is have yet to officially announce the alphabet of the new language they have invented for every person in the world.

There are various intolerant ideas preached by the Baha’is found in the Babi cult before them which have no basis in Islam:

“Babis! God has made war obligatory upon you. Capture cities and people for Babism.” you have that in Bayan chapter 1

“Do not let those who do not believe in the Bayan remain on the earth.” Bayan chapter 1

“Snatch the wealth of those who do not believe in the Bayan.” Bayan Arabic chapter 5

“Rejecters of Bab! Even if you take a bath 1000 times in a day, you shall remain unclean.” Bayan chapter 2

“Whatever belongings of the non-Babis come into possession of the Babis they become clean.” Bayan chapter 4

I am not sure where you are getting your information but unless you can prove it is actually true it is false information promoted and propagated by the enemies of the Baha'i Faith who are hoping to convince hapless souls that the Baha'i Faith is not what it clams to be. This kind of calumny is commonly seen whenever a new Manifestation of God appears on earth, and there is a reason for it: Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth.

This is what happens whenever a new Manifestation of God appears on earth:

“From the beginning of the world until the present time each ‘Manifestation’ 1 sent from God has been opposed by an embodiment of the ‘Powers of Darkness’.

This dark power has always endeavoured to extinguish the light. Tyranny has ever sought to overcome justice. Ignorance has persistently tried to trample knowledge underfoot. This has, from the earliest ages, been the method of the material world.

In the time of Moses, Pharaoh set himself to prevent the Mosaic Light being spread abroad.

In the day of Christ, Annas and Caiaphas inflamed the Jewish people against Him and the learned doctors of Israel joined together to resist His Power. All sorts of calumnies were circulated against Him. The Scribes and Pharisees conspired to make the people believe Him to be a liar, an apostate, and a blasphemer. They spread these slanders throughout the whole Eastern world against Christ, and caused Him to be condemned to a shameful death!

In the case of Muhammad also, the learned doctors of His day determined to extinguish the light of His influence. They tried by the power of the sword to prevent the spread of His teaching.

In spite of all their efforts the Sun of Truth shone forth from the horizon. In every case the army of light vanquished the powers of darkness on the battlefield of the world, and the radiance of the Divine Teaching illumined the earth. Those who accepted the Teaching and worked for the Cause of God became luminous stars in the sky of humanity.

Now, in our own day, history repeats itself.

Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth: they resist the Command of God; they invent calumnies, not having arguments against it, neither proofs. They attack with masked faces, not daring to come forth into the light of day.”
Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks

 

[Trailblazer]

Interestingly, as you say that you haven't read the Qur'an (which is one of the most profound texts ever written, hardly anything surpasses it), you'd be intrigued to learn that a considerable amount of the first half of the Kitab i-Iqan is an expanded commentary on Surah Hud (11th Surah of the Qur'an).
The Kitab i-Iqan doesn't solely focus on it though but it is very much a foundation of the Kitab i-Iqan, but brought into the current dispensation of Prophet Baha'u'llah

Basically, Prophet Hud, Prophet Salih, Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus, Prophet Muhammad the the Bab (general structure).

As I said in my post, there is a reason I have not read the Qur'an, and it is not through lack of interest.

The long story of how and why I became a Baha'i almost 50 years ago and what happened after that would explain why I never read the Qur'an. I never even read one page of the Bible until seven years ago when I first started posting on forums. I have had no interest in religion for most of the years I have been a Baha'i, but I never lost my belief in Baha'u'llah, or in God. Then seven years ago I decided to make another attempt at being a Baha'i, an endeavor that has claimed all my time. I have my story all written up so I could post it but this thread is not about me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Allah is the All, it encompasses everything and everything returns to it after physical death. It is distinct from everything as the source but it covers everything as the Divine Unity (Tawhid).

The Islamic view of the Divine is a total subsuming of both Advaita (God's Unity, encompassing all) and Dvaita (God being absolutely incomprehensibly different from the Universe, being it's source).

Which is a problem. It can either be completely 'Advaita' or completely 'Dvaita'. There cannot be a mixing of two. If it is 'Dvaita', then I will ask for a proof. And you have no proof (irrespective of what your books/Qur'an/Bible/Tanakh/Bhagawat Purana says. You can only talk). Of course, you can take recourse to 'special pleading':

Because other people do not have the divine mind that is able to receive those brain-waves.

There are all sorts of minds. intelligent minds, dumb minds, independent minds, servile minds, scheming minds, calculating minds, deceiving minds, peaceful minds, warring minds, sane minds, insane minds, humble minds, arrogant minds, forgetful minds, narcissistic minds, etc. Now you add one more kind of mind.

I'd strongly reccomend everyone to do this, atheists, Christians, friends and enemies if Islam and Muslims, ..

Atheists are generally quite aware of Bible and Quran and of other books too. They have arrived at their position after reading all these books. Many a times they know these books better than the followers of these religions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Baha'u'llah in His work the Kitab-i-Iqan alludes to with the phrase 'seal of the Prophets' and how the phrase is applicable to other Messengers/Rasool. This concept is clearly supported by Christian scripture. For example in the Book of Revelation 22:13 we have reference to Christ being the ‘Alpha and the Omega’, or the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet.

In that sense Christ is also the beginning and end and the seal of the Prophets as with Muhammad.

Bahaollah would say so because he is, in legal sense, an "interested party". The statement of an "interested party" would not even be considered in a court, more so because he has no evidence to offer (of course, it is a different thing that no Abrahamic religion has any evidence to offer).

Bahaollah gave a secondary position to Jesus, since he said that Bab was the returning Jesus, the Mahdi, and he is a notch higher than that, being a manifestation. He makes Jesus and Bab his heralds. There is no end to the ego of Bahaollah. So Jesus may be Alpha and Omega, but he is still a notch lower than him.

And finally, tell me who were Jesus and Mohammad for Bahais? At times you list them in the nine or so manifestations, and here you are terming them as prophets, Bahaollah being something different, he was not a prophet. Why do you change your colors like a chameleons? Some times this and some times that.

Then seven years ago I decided to make another attempt at being a Baha'i, an endeavor that has claimed all my time.

Do you mean for the last seven years you are doing nothing else but promoting Bahai belief in internet forums? Do we get a compensation?

 

[Tober Canton]

Which is a problem. It can either be completely 'Advaita' or completely 'Dvaita'. There cannot be a mixing of two.

This may be your own personal dogma but this is not fact. Dvaita always dissolves into Advaita ontologically one way or another. You can never believe that God is innately separate from it's creation (manifestation/creation/emanation/the universe/etc) or else you contradict the very concept of God (Absolute Reality).

 

[Aupmanyav]

This may be your own personal dogma but this is not fact. Dvaita always dissolves into Advaita ontologically one way or another. You can never believe that God is innately separate from it's creation (manifestation/creation/emanation/the universe/etc) or else you contradict the very concept of God (Absolute Reality).

If Allah /God is innately the same and ontologically Dvaita (Duality) dissolves into Advaita (non-duality) one way or the other, then whom are you worshiping? Why are you doing such an ignorant thing as worshiping yourself? You are the same as Allah / God. That is what the Hindu books say too: "Tat twam asi" (You are that). Ana al-Huq (Arabic: أنا الحَقيقة). Then Bahaollah is misleading you to worship an imaginary entity, Allah.