proof of the true God?

[Brickjectivity]

What or where is the proof of the true God, the Creator and Judge, the Living God, the Most High who lives forever and ever?

One or more NT writers say "God is spirit". In those times it was not known that thoughts were asdociated with brains, and so instead they were described in terms of the air that carried words. I think you have to ask what would be the ancient equivalent of the modern term 'Conceptual', and I think the answer you find will be that it is the Greek 'Pneuma' which then appears in the NT as 'Spirit'. What we have is Jesus saying God is conceptual, and I think it is dishonest to teach people otherwise. God is invisible, untouchable, unchangeable etc. many descriptions, but for the NT to call God 'Spirit' should be quite telling. Therefore the evidence for a conceptual God is necessarily going to be conceptual, and in the face of ignorant claims that this is atheism it is certainly not idolatry. Also the creations of God are implied to be conceptual, wjich NT writers usually support. What is idolatry is adding physical form and accessability, especially that which comes through some leader suggesting individuals must in effect follow any leader other than God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Eh. The bible will disapear. Peoples faith will gradually change. Thats just the nature of life; something we take for granted, really. .............. I do think the originial teaching of christ is lost by many people reinterpreting the bible.
Actually, that fact alone means years later, the bible will be so different that the only thing we hope to stay the same is the spiritual and cultural part of us that we transfer from one generation to the next............
But, yeah, spirituaity changes all the time. I would not be surprised in 2060 we would all be muslims.

To me the ^ above ^ also sounds that you would not be surprised that the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 will Not happen.

Christendom (apostate Christianity) often goes by their church traditions or their church customs loosing the original 1st-century teachings of Christ as found in the Bible, thus reinterpreting Christ's original teachings.
That does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes their reinterpreted church customs / traditions as wrong.

King James tried to make some changes to the Bible but those changes have been exposed.
The Douay Version added some book to Bible canon but those apocryphal books proved to be out of harmony with the ' 66 ' harmonious books of Bible canon. So, to me the answer is "No" the Bible will Not be any different.

Many think the Bible will disappear, and I find that to be in harmony with Jesus' recorded words at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false. In other words, Jesus was stressing there is a BIG difference between 'quantity and quality' such as in his illustration about the genuine ' wheat ' Christians growing together with the fake ' weed/tares' Christians until the Harvest Time (our time frame).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As many times before date predictions for an Armageddon and Return have always failed,

People having ' date predictions ' does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes those calculations as wrong.
Jesus gave instructions to his followers to take the good news message about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 to the most distant parts of the Earth. We are now at that ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Even modern technology has helped make rapid Bible translation possible for people earth wide to have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages as never before in history.
So, this means we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the ' one ' who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
As it is written, so it shall be.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is the seer/knower. Who else can see/know it? However, mind can fold up on itself and let the seer reveal the seer.

To me, reading the ^ above ^ that the ' mind can fold up on itself ' reminds me of a parachute Not properly prepared.
For the mind to work right it must be like a parachute that is open, however, some people's minds are just so wide open that one might think their brains have fallen out.

An inquiring mind wants to know. The inquiring people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 wanted to know and that is why they searched for the Seer/God, and they researched daily what they were learning, as to what they were hearing was really found in Scripture.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To me the ^ above ^ also sounds that you would not be surprised that the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 will Not happen.

Christendom (apostate Christianity) often goes by their church traditions or their church customs loosing the original 1st-century teachings of Christ as found in the Bible, thus reinterpreting Christ's original teachings.
That does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes their reinterpreted church customs / traditions as wrong.

King James tried to make some changes to the Bible but those changes have been exposed.
The Douay Version added some book to Bible canon but those apocryphal books proved to be out of harmony with the ' 66 ' harmonious books of Bible canon. So, to me the answer is "No" the Bible will Not be any different.

Many think the Bible will disappear, and I find that to be in harmony with Jesus' recorded words at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false. In other words, Jesus was stressing there is a BIG difference between 'quantity and quality' such as in his illustration about the genuine ' wheat ' Christians growing together with the fake ' weed/tares' Christians until the Harvest Time (our time frame).

Ummm. I'll get back to this. Im just using simple logic just as any other topic. Things die out. Nothing stays the same nor is anything eternal. The bible will disapear just not in our lifetime. We can hope it stays, but the fact history doesnt stay static for one thing is beyond whats written in any sacred scripture.

Its just life.

Using the bible to support itself is circlar logic. How does history stay static regardless if its religous in nature?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To me the ^ above ^ also sounds that you would not be surprised that the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 will Not happen.

Christendom (apostate Christianity) often goes by their church traditions or their church customs loosing the original 1st-century teachings of Christ as found in the Bible, thus reinterpreting Christ's original teachings.
That does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes their reinterpreted church customs / traditions as wrong.

King James tried to make some changes to the Bible but those changes have been exposed.
The Douay Version added some book to Bible canon but those apocryphal books proved to be out of harmony with the ' 66 ' harmonious books of Bible canon. So, to me the answer is "No" the Bible will Not be any different.

Many think the Bible will disappear, and I find that to be in harmony with Jesus' recorded words at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false. In other words, Jesus was stressing there is a BIG difference between 'quantity and quality' such as in his illustration about the genuine ' wheat ' Christians growing together with the fake ' weed/tares' Christians until the Harvest Time (our time frame).

Also, this has nothing to do with my statements and questions.

 

[shunyadragon]

People having ' date predictions ' does Not make the Bible as wrong, but makes those calculations as wrong.
Jesus gave instructions to his followers to take the good news message about God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 to the most distant parts of the Earth. We are now at that ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Even modern technology has helped make rapid Bible translation possible for people earth wide to have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages as never before in history.
So, this means we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the ' one ' who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
As it is written, so it shall be.

The Bible being right and wrong is not the issue here. The Bible is the Bible, and there are different conflicting and contradictory beliefs involved where different groups claim to know what is right and wrong about the Bible, and what individual citations mean.

Considering the ambiguity of scripture and claims of interpretations of vague prophecies by fallible humans, and the warnings in scripture, makes predictions more than highly questionable.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ummm. I'll get back to this. Im just using simple logic just as any other topic. Things die out. Nothing stays the same nor is anything eternal. The bible will disapear just not in our lifetime. We can hope it stays, but the fact history doesnt stay static for one thing is beyond whats written in any sacred scripture.
Using the bible to support itself is circlar logic. How does history stay static regardless if its religous in nature?

Right, even Psalms 102:25-26 informs us creation is perishable, but that does Not mean that God will Not protect what part of creation He wants protected. As Psalms 104:5 says the foundations of the Earth will Not be removed forever.
So, things do die out, but that does Not mean God's purpose for the humble meek people to inherit the Earth will die out. Rather, upright ones will remain as per Proverbs 2:21-22.

Mankind can trace its biblically speaking religious family tree back to its base in ancient Babylon.
As the people migrated away from ancient Babylon they took with them their non-biblical religious ideas and practices and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
That is why we see so many similar or overlapping religious concepts and practices spread world wide today.
So, what started in ancient Babylon did Not stay static but evolved into the modern-day monstrosity now called Christendom ( apostate Christianity ).
So, from the birthplace of non-biblical religion in ancient Babylon is now still flourishing today, but Not for much longer.

 

[atanu]

To me, reading the ^ above ^ that the ' mind can fold up on itself ' reminds me of a parachute Not properly prepared.
For the mind to work right it must be like a parachute that is open, however, some people's minds are just so wide open that one might think their brains have fallen out.

An inquiring mind wants to know. The inquiring people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 wanted to know and that is why they searched for the Seer/God, and they researched daily what they were learning, as to what they were hearing was really found in Scripture.

When I said ‘mind folding onto itself’, I was probably not precise. I meant introversion of mind. And that is not at all akin to parachute not prepared.

A person will be able to seek the Seer within only when the preparation is complete, time is ripe and with the grace of the Seer.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Youre all over the place.

Right, even Psalms 102:25-26 informs us creation is perishable, but that does Not mean that God will Not protect what part of creation He wants protected. As Psalms 104:5 says the foundations of the Earth will Not be removed forever.

We are parishable. Everything is. Everything dies or decays.

So, things do die out, but that does Not mean God's purpose for the humble meek people to inherit the Earth will die out. Rather, upright ones will remain as per Proverbs 2:21-22.

Gods purpose depends on the believer. When there are no more believers, god vanishes. He doesnte exist apart from believers.

Using the bible to prove itself is circular logic. It doesnt help unless you have other support to cite your claims.

I honestly dont mind if you dont. Im not proving you wrong so.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

When I said ‘mind folding onto itself’, I was probably not precise. I meant introversion of mind. And that is not at all akin to parachute not prepared.
A person will be able to seek the Seer within only when the preparation is complete, time is ripe and with the grace of the Seer.

For me to be more precise I should have said a parachute Not properly prepared.
Seek the Seer only when the preparation is complete. ( properly prepared parachute ).
' time is ripe with grace of the Seer ' or as Jesus said at John 6:44 that No man can come to Jesus except that the Seer who sent Jesus calls or draws that person, or as John 6:65 says that No man can come to Jesus unless it is granted (grace) by his Seer/God.

 

[DPMartin]

If a Loving Creator exists, and if it wanted us to have proof of its existence, we would have proof that would leave us no doubt. Therefore, either a Loving Creator doesn't exist or it has a good reason for keeping us in the dark about its existence.

If a Loving Creator exists and wants us to have free will along with moral guidance, we would be born with a simple, universal (meaning cross-cultural) moral guidance system. I think we probably have such a system -- and although it wouldn't be compelling evidence that a Loving Creator exists, it's enough to create the suspicion in my mind.

Over the last 30 years or so, science has been heading toward the intuitionist theory to explain conscience and away from the rationalist theory. This is the beginning of support for my hypothesis of a universal conscience. Here's a small sample:

From the New York Times: "According to Yale psychologist Paul Bloom, humans are born with a hard-wired morality. A deep sense of good and evil is bred in the bone. His research shows that babies and toddlers can judge the goodness and badness of others' actions; they want to reward the good and punish the bad; they act to help those in distress; they feel guilt, shame, pride, and righteous anger."

What if He doesn’t want you to have free will? What makes you think free will exists anyway? what, because you can choose whatever is posable in the flesh? If of course you live in a society that lets you.

What if He isn’t a loving Creator? And you’ve been duped into thinking He’s supposed to be. A ruthless drug dealer loves his children but he will cut your throat at the drop of a hat. does that mean because he loves his own, he should love you too?

You should note that it is His own that claim the experience of His Love, and those that are not don't get the same experience do they?.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Youre all over the place.
We are parishable. Everything is. Everything dies or decays.
Gods purpose depends on the believer. When there are no more believers, god vanishes. He doesnte exist apart from believers.
Using the bible to prove itself is circular logic. It doesnt help unless you have other support to cite your claims.
I honestly dont mind if you dont. Im not proving you wrong so.....

Right, I agree we are perishable. Everything as it stand now is perishable, dies or decays.
God does Not vanish where there are No believers. There will always be believers.
Everywhere people are born with the capacity for spiritual inclinations. So, God does exist apart from believers.
Since the Bible is the Textbook for believers then it is Not circular logic but that Textbook is the educational tool that a Christian would use to stand by his statements. So, God's purpose depends on His Textbook.
The 'powers that be ' will prove God's Textbook to be accurate because they will fulfill His Word.
For example: In the past God used the political/military world as His long Arm of the Law to carry out His will.
So, it should Not surprise anyone that once again God will use the political/military world (even the U. N.) to be His Arm of the Law to carry out His will against apostate religion.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Right, I agree we are perishable. Everything as it stand now is perishable, dies or decays

Yes..

God does Not vanish where there are No believers. There will always be believers.

When there is no more people on earth, there is no god; we can hope, but the fact god is not physical in nature means he exist in the life and hearts of people alive. When there is no people, there is no god.

Everywhere people are born with the capacity for spiritual inclinations. So, God does exist apart from believers.

We do have capacity for spiritual inclinations so we sometimes lean towards the religion which helps with our wellbeing. Biblical spirituality is just one option not the option.

We dont know this apart from what you read and what you experience. Take away the bible and people and describe god without the prophets.

Since the Bible is the Textbook for believers then it is Not circular logic but that Textbook is the educational tool that a Christian would use to stand by his statements. So, God's purpose depends on His Textbook.

Circular logic means you are using the same source to which you made your claims. Of course the bible will support itself (circular logic). The challenge is trying to find other sources to back up its validity; one that doesnt reflect what the bible sayas in another form.

Educational tools are not always spiritual facts.

It depends on the person. Its not spiritual in and of itself.

 

[atanu]

For me to be more precise I should have said a parachute Not properly prepared.
Seek the Seer only when the preparation is complete. ( properly prepared parachute ).
' time is ripe with grace of the Seer ' or as Jesus said at John 6:44 that No man can come to Jesus except that the Seer who sent Jesus calls or draws that person, or as John 6:65 says that No man can come to Jesus unless it is granted (grace) by his Seer/God.

How exactly do Jesus and Seer differ?

 

[joe1776]

What if He doesn’t want you to have free will? What makes you think free will exists anyway? what, because you can choose whatever is posable in the flesh? If of course you live in a society that lets you.

Well then, if free will doesn't exist, I'd obviously be wrong.

What if He isn’t a loving Creator? And you’ve been duped into thinking He’s supposed to be. A ruthless drug dealer loves his children but he will cut your throat at the drop of a hat. does that mean because he loves his own, he should love you too?

Well then, in that case, I'd be wrong again.

You should note that it is His own that claim the experience of His Love, and those that are not don't get the same experience do they?.

If a Loving Creator exists, then I'd expect that its love would be unconditional because conditional love (I will love you if you please me) isn't love at all -- in which case, you'd be wrong.

 

[DPMartin]

It would depend on how you conceptualize the idea of "God" whether or not there would be proof of the concept's truthfulness. For example, if you conceptualize "God" as an experience of wetness, then every time it rains you would have proof that this god-concept is true. But if someone else does not agree to that god-conception, then they will not find the rain to be proof of it's truthfulness. We humans have to define the truth before we can ascertain it. And that means that for we humans, the truth is always going to be relative, and subjective (relative and subject to our own preconceived definitions). And there's really no way around this. So asking us to prove your concept of God true or false for you is asking for something that we cannot provide. You have to do it for yourself.

if you conceptualize the idea of "God" then its not a true Creator is it?

you don't conceptualize the sun or the moon, they just are, through no help of man's imagination. therefore the true Creator need not man to be. though there are many idols and gods created by man's imagination.

the artist (creator) paints a painting to his satisfactions, the painting has no say in that.

 

[DPMartin]

I believe in God, but there is no proof of the existence of God.

Then how can you believe what you do not know, and how can you trust what you do not know or even hear?

 

[DPMartin]

Although written on perishable paper No one has been able to get rid of the Bible or Bible people.
If there was Not supernatural backing then the Bible because of enemies would have been gone long ago.
If it were Not for God's backing the global international work that Jesus said to do at Matthew 24:14 and Acts 1:8 would Not be able to be accomplished on such a vast world-wide scale as it is now being done today.

Further proof I find at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is that when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill. As it is written (on fragile paper) so it shall be !

what is written isn't proof its only affirmation one is experiencing the same God, in the case of the bible it would be the God of Israel. hence a testimony of the what the writer experienced.

 

[shunyadragon]

Then how can you believe what you do not know, and how can you trust what you do not know or even hear?

In reality we cannot 'know' with any 'objective certainty.' To realize this is a step in recognizing the fallible nature of human beliefs in worlds outside the physical from a more universal prespectivel.

The objective verifiable evidence of our physical existence as progressively revealed through scientific methods, but also realizing that this knowledge is subject to change as new knowledge is revealed.

Philosophical/Theological beliefs without objective verifiable evidence are obviously variable and contradictory from the human perspective.

I believe in God, based on the available knowledge at present find the individual ancient religions not logical nor rational given the problems of relevance to the contemporary world. I do not conclude that they are right nor wrong, they offer inspiration and guidance, but limited by the cultural nature of the religion, and I do consider them to be grounded in Revelation, but contain human cultural views also.

My belief in God is a more universal apophatic belief where the human perspective cannot define God and Revelation in specific positive terms from the narrow perspective of their own belief system.