Prop H8 mostly upheld

[Watchmen]

For those attacking the California Supreme Court, you should know their decision was exactly spot on. Legal experts on both sides predicted this result as early as November when challenges to Prop 8 were raised. It's not about the Court being bigoted (did you already forget they ruled in favor of gay marriages last year?), but about the Court being asked to interpret a very narrow area of California constitutional law (amendment vs. revision). Complicating matters further is California's bone-headed voter initiative process. Please remember that. The Court can't just make stuff up and say "same-sex marriages are legal." They're restrained to hear and rule on the issue before them.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I agree.
Let us completely remove the word 'marriage' from the legal books completely.
Let the churches have the word.

Strip the word 'marriage' of any and all legality.
Make the legal contract currently known as marriage be called a 'Civil Union'.

That way the churches get to hold onto their hollow claims to the word marriage, and same sex couples are no longer discriminated against.

Let's not forget that gays could find a church to marry them as well. Everyone would be equal and no one could vote on someone else's rights.

 

[Watchmen]

I never said separate was equal. Reading is fundamental. The state should give everyone a civil union and leave marriage up to the churches.

I never said you said separate was equal. I think we agree with each other. I was just pointing out that California already provides the same state benefits to same-sex couples as it does married couples via its domestic partnership laws.

 

[Weddy]

I agree.
Let us completely remove the word 'marriage' from the legal books completely.
Let the churches have the word.

Strip the word 'marriage' of any and all legality.
Make the legal contract currently known as marriage be called a 'Civil Union'.

That way the churches get to hold onto their hollow claims to the word marriage, and same sex couples are no longer discriminated against.

Hmmmmmm. Very interesting. I'll have to think about that.

 

[Autodidact]

I don't see anything wrong with people marrying someone of another race. What does that have to do with gay rights though?

*sigh* Maybe the problem is sheer ignorance. Weddy: Just 40 years ago, it was illegal in many states for people of different races to marry. Some people sought full civil rights, including the right to marry people of a different race. Eventually the Supreme Court ruled that such laws violated Equal Protection. The same argument could be made then as you are making now, in fact it was made. There was no discrimination, because Black people enjoyed the exact same right as White people--the right to marry someone of the same race.

Again, I ask you to try, difficult though you may find this, to imagine what it would feel like for you. If you had the right to marry the woman of your choice, would you feel that you had the same civil rights as Gay people?

 

[Autodidact]

No. The vote hinged on whether Prop 8 amended or revised the California constitution.

Eaxactly. It was a technical question of California constitutional law, and the outcome was predicted.

 

[Weddy]

*sigh* Maybe the problem is sheer ignorance. Weddy: Just 40 years ago, it was illegal in many states for people of different races to marry. Some people sought full civil rights, including the right to marry people of a different race. Eventually the Supreme Court ruled that such laws violated Equal Protection. The same argument could be made then as you are making now, in fact it was made. There was no discrimination, because Black people enjoyed the exact same right a White people--the right to marry someone of the same race.

Again, I ask you to try, difficult though you may find this, to imagine what it would feel like for you. If you had the right to marry the woman of your choice, would you feel that you had the same civil rights as Gay people?

I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree. The bible speaks against homosexuality, but I've never seen anything against mixing the races in the bible. Moses was married to a black woman.

 

[themadhair]

I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree. The bible speaks against homosexuality, but I've never seen anything against mixing the races in the bible. Moses was married to a black woman.

It also speaks against shellfish but I don't see you campaigning your bigotry on that issue.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Ignore the law...energy wasted which could be used for love.

 

[Nanda]

I also don't see why anyone who isn't a Christian should have to abide by anything the bible says - this isn't a theocracy.

 

[Autodidact]

I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree. The bible speaks against homosexuality, but I've never seen anything against mixing the races in the bible. Moses was married to a black woman.

Why are you bringing the Bible into it? It has nothing to do with the law.

The Bible has nothing to say against lesbianism.

The Bible is clearly and unequivocally against divorce--are you active in the movement to ban that?

And again, you're joking, right? You couldn't possibly be so ignorant as not to know that white Christians used the Bible to justify racist discrimination for centuries, right?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I think it's pretty childish to call someone stupid because they have a different opinion than you. That just shows that you can't back up your beliefs. "Gee, I can't think of what to say so I'll just say she's stupid."

Whoa!!! Easy there, girl. YOU are the one that used the phrase "stupid", in response to a post from Autodidact.

I would have gone with "obtuse", or perhaps "callous".

You are the one that decided to weigh in with the opinion that is (quite obviously) worded in such a way as to intentionally offend those of us that support the rights of gay people to marry whomever they choose. You tried to phrase it as though you simply couldn't understand their distress.

If you want others to believe that you are not "obtuse" or "stupid" (your choice), then you should demonstrate that you are capable of grasping the basic idea that gay people cannot marry whomever they choose (as straight people can).

The ball is in your court.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

... I've come to the conclusion that such people lack the intellectual capacity to understand.

... or the honesty to admit that they are simply homophobic bigots that don't care.

 

[Autodidact]

I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree. The bible speaks against homosexuality, but I've never seen anything against mixing the races in the bible. Moses was married to a black woman.

Then why don't you answer the question I've asked you three times? If the shoe were on the other foot, would you feel that you had equal rights?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I agree.
Let us completely remove the word 'marriage' from the legal books completely.
Let the churches have the word.

Strip the word 'marriage' of any and all legality.
Make the legal contract currently known as marriage be called a 'Civil Union'.

That way the churches get to hold onto their hollow claims to the word marriage, and same sex couples are no longer discriminated against.

I'm with Rick and Mestemia on this one.

 

[Weddy]

Whoa!!! Easy there, girl. YOU are the one that used the phrase "stupid", in response to a post from Autodidact.

I would have gone with "obtuse", or perhaps "callous".

You are the one that decided to weigh in with the opinion that is (quite obviously) worded in such a way as to intentionally offend those of us that support the rights of gay people to marry whomever they choose. You tried to phrase it as though you simply couldn't understand their distress.

If you want others to believe that you are not "obtuse" or "stupid" (your choice), then you should demonstrate that you are capable of grasping the basic idea that gay people cannot marry whomever they choose (as straight people can).

The ball is in your court.

You need to go back and read. Autodidact is the one that brought up the word "stupid". I responded by saying that I'm not stupid.

 

[Autodidact]

Well, Rick Mestemia and VoR, it ain't gonna happen. If Gay people have to wait around for the legal institution of marriage to be abolished, we'll never have equal rights.

It also smacks to me of breaking your toy rather than share it with others.

 

[Autodidact]

You need to go back and read. Autodidact is the one that brought up the word "stupid". I responded by saying that I'm not stupid.

So why don't you answer my question?

 

[Weddy]

Then why don't you answer the question I've asked you three times? If the shoe were on the other foot, would you feel that you had equal rights?

The shoe would never be on the other foot so the point is moot.

 

[themadhair]

The shoe would never be on the other foot so the point is moot.

Bigotry personified?