Prophets--quality control. Especially for Muslims, LDS

[A-ManESL]

Was your family Muslim? Do you think that might have something to do with it?

Yes my family is Muslim, but very open minded. I do think that my cultural background initially affected my views. But later, as I learnt more, I think I shrugged off the cultural baggage and took a more simple and direct approach towards religion based on love. Love wasnt imbibed as the bedrock fundamental principle towards religion to me culturally, although it was always present. I do accept some non-Abrahamic religious figures as holy personages too, from Hinduism too. I am particulary attracted to Ramakrishna Paramhamsa.

I think ultimately love is unconditional and to specify criteria for it just doesnt work.

Regards.

 

[Autodidact]

What we see over and over again is this pattern:
1. My family was religion X, and I was raised X.
2. I am X today.
3. I believe these two facts have no relationship to one another.

It's amazing.

Don't you think, A-Man, that the reason you believe that Muhammed was a prophet, is that you were told so from an early age? Just as Zadok was told the reverse, and now believes the reverse?

In other words, do you really think it's a coincidence that people who are raised Muslim become Muslim, and people who are raised LDS are LDS?

Anyway, my question is, if your next door neighbor starts telling you he is God's next prophet, how do you go about deciding whether he's telling the truth?

Just as you wouldn't want to be scammed by a fake prophet, you also wouldn't want to fail to follow a true one, correct?

 

[A-ManESL]

What we see over and over again is this pattern:
1. My family was religion X, and I was raised X.
2. I am X today.
3. I believe these two facts have no relationship to one another.

It's amazing.

Don't you think, A-Man, that the reason you believe that Muhammed was a prophet, is that you were told so from an early age? Just as Zadok was told the reverse, and now believes the reverse?

In other words, do you really think it's a coincidence that people who are raised Muslim become Muslim, and people who are raised LDS are LDS?

Anyway, my question is, if your next door neighbor starts telling you he is God's next prophet, how do you go about deciding whether he's telling the truth?

Just as you wouldn't want to be scammed by a fake prophet, you also wouldn't want to fail to follow a true one, correct?

I do not quite agree that I believe in the Prophet since I have been brainwashed or something. For one thing you are using a generalization here, based on a pattern you have seen, you are extending the pattern to me. I think religious belief is a personal thing and each person's religion is unique. As Gandhi said, "In reality there are as many religions as individuals."

My whole belief system is based on (spiritual) love(and this way btw was not inherited culturally by me). Perhaps you have ever been in love and will agree that logically built scientific ideas of discriminating between good and bad are irrelevant in front of it (at least in my case it is). That is why I believe in God, and that is why I accept Muhammad(pbuh) as the Prophet. If my next door neighbour inspires such a feeling one day in my heart, I will accept him as the prophet.

Regards.

 

[Autodidact]

I do not quite agree that I believe in the Prophet since I have been brainwashed or something. For one thing you are using a generalization here, based on a pattern you have seen, you are extending the pattern to me. I think religious belief is a personal thing and each person's religion is unique. As Gandhi said, "In reality there are as many religions as individuals."

My whole belief system is based on (spiritual) love(and this way btw was not inherited culturally by me). Perhaps you have ever been in love and will agree that logically built scientific ideas of discriminating between good and bad are irrelevant in front of it (at least in my case it is). That is why I believe in God, and that is why I accept Muhammad(pbuh) as the Prophet. If my next door neighbour inspires such a feeling one day in my heart, I will accept him as the prophet.

Regards.

Exactly as I said. You were raised Muslim, you're Muslim today, and you believe there is no causal relationship between those two facts.

What about all the Mormons in Salt Lake City who were raised Mormon. Do you think there is any causal relation between the fact that they were raised Mormon, and the fact that they're Mormon today? Or is that just random coincidence too?

 

[A-ManESL]

Exactly as I said. You were raised Muslim, you're Muslim today, and you believe there is no causal relationship between those two facts.

What about all the Mormons in Salt Lake City who were raised Mormon. Do you think there is any causal relation between the fact that they were raised Mormon, and the fact that they're Mormon today? Or is that just random coincidence too?

lol...didnt I answer that already? I believe each person's inner religious faith is unique and to study it at a group level is incorrect.

Regards.

 

[TEXASBULL]

Very Interesting. All you have to do is look a a world map of "Religions" and see that
1. It is cultural
2. It is evolving

Example, If you had a map of all world religions from over 3 thousand years ago or more, you would see Egyptian Gods, Aztec Gods, Tribal Gods, etc, dominated the landscape but today you probably cannot find a handful of people who are currently living on planet earth today who believe in one of those Gods or their Prophets.

This proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that religion and its " prophets " have evolved over time and the God's that people were so sure of in the past has faded away in just a few hundred years.

I wonder what tomorrows religious map will look like.

 

[painted wolf]

There are several "tribal gods" that still have healthy handfuls of followers.

But yes, it will be very interesting to see what the future brings.

wa:do

 

[TEXASBULL]

There are several "tribal gods" that still have healthy handfuls of followers.

But yes, it will be very interesting to see what the future brings.

wa:do

Correct, but you do agree as the culture changes, the stories of their religion will change over time with them.

I think the most telling example is the homosexuality debate. We see it shifting.

In the Bible people had slaves, multiple wives, and stone teens for backtalk.

2000 years later we have " evolved " out of those beliefs ( even thou they are still in the book ), we made a choice to not make them a part of our society laws. I think homosexuality will be the next to fall. Yes, its in the book, but we are changing with time.

sorry if i am off topic. lets get back to prophets.

I think that is why there are no new prophets today, because these old profit stories are impossible to go back and prove ( because in my opinion, the miracles that were told about them were lies). It would be easy to catch a lair today.

J.Smith and the golden plates, etc. is hard now to go back a prove. Just like Moses magical stick turning into a snake. Most people can figure out these things really did not happen, but when grown up's look you right in the face as a child and tell you these things are true, it can really screw up your mind later in life.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I will say, if a supposed Prophet offers me Kool-aid, I'm probably not going to drink.

 

[painted wolf]

Correct, but you do agree as the culture changes, the stories of their religion will change over time with them.

I'm not sure if the stories are changing as much as it is our relationships with those stories. But, point taken... I actually think here in the USA it is our Historical mythology that is becoming the mythology of choice.

I think the most telling example is the homosexuality debate. We see it shifting.

I could argue that you are simply catching up to where many First Nations already were when Europeans arrived. But again, I agree... we are growing into the responsibilities set forth in our new secular scriptures.

I think that is why there are no new prophets today, because these old profit stories are impossible to go back and prove ( because in my opinion, the miracles that were told about them were lies). It would be easy to catch a lair today.

I think we have plenty of prophets today... it's just easier for them to shill as political commentators than religious ones.

wa:do

 

[Smoke]

lol...didnt I answer that already? I believe each person's inner religious faith is unique and to study it at a group level is incorrect.

Religion is usually a group activity to some extent. To refuse to study it at a group level seems arbitrary and dishonest.

 

[Smoke]

J.Smith and the golden plates, etc. is hard now to go back a prove. Just like Moses magical stick turning into a snake. Most people can figure out these things really did not happen, but when grown up's look you right in the face as a child and tell you these things are true, it can really screw up your mind later in life.

That's one thing that used to bother me about Mother Alexandra of Ellwood City, née Princess Ileana of Romania, whom I generally respected.

Mother Alexandra used to insist that all the traditions of the Church should be handed down exactly as received -- not just the dogmatic and liturgical traditions, but all the traditions. For instance -- and this is an example she herself used -- there is a tradition that the Holy Apostles flew on clouds to be at the deathbed of the Mother of God. Mother Alexandra believed this should be taught and believed exactly as received, i.e., you should teach your children that the Holy Apostles really did fly on actual clouds to be at the deathbed of the Mother of God. It seems to me that this is not very healthy, and would tend either to make your child skeptical about your religion, or to encourage him to become a sort of simpleton by choice.

 

[neves]

Particularly for Muslims, LDS, Unification Church, or anyone else who accepts a specific person as a prophet of God.

When a man claims to be a prophet of God, what criteria do you use to determine whether he's telling the truth?

Simple answer for me... Character , Character and Character...

[youtube]qWCMD_iDU9Q[/youtube]
YouTube - Muhammad (pbuh) - Abdur Raheem Green

 

[A-ManESL]

Religion is usually a group activity to some extent. To refuse to study it at a group level seems arbitrary and dishonest.

What you call as "it" in the above sentence (religion) is not what I referred to as "it"(inner religious faith).

While studying religion at a group level to some extent is valuable, when it comes to the gist of reasoning behind faith, it should be studied at an individual level. Just like love.

Regards.

 

[Autodidact]

Simple answer for me... Character , Character and Character...

[youtube]qWCMD_iDU9Q[/youtube]
YouTube - Muhammad (pbuh) - Abdur Raheem Green

Could you be more specific?

 

[Autodidact]

No, A-Man, you have not answered my question. Does this sum up your position:

Religious training and upbringing has no known effect. The fact that people raised in Salt Lake City by Mormons grow up to be Mormons, and people raised in Jeddah by Muslims grow up to be Muslims, is pure coincidence.

Is that right?

 

[neves]

Could you be more specific?

Hmmm... thought the video was pretty specific...

How I can tell he (Muhammed PBUH) was telling the truth was what type of character he had , even before becoming a Prophet (PBUH)... and how he acted after becoming the Prophet(PBUH)... pretty much his whole life story indicates he was telling the truth...

 

[A-ManESL]

No, A-Man, you have not answered my question. Does this sum up your position:

Religious training and upbringing has no known effect. The fact that people raised in Salt Lake City by Mormons grow up to be Mormons, and people raised in Jeddah by Muslims grow up to be Muslims, is pure coincidence.

Is that right?

No it isnt. In fact for external religion, which is the shell, I believe the opposite is true, people brought up in a particular culture tend to live their lives according to that culture.

But my main point is that for real religion, or inner religion, which is the kernel, your question is invalid as there are as many inner religions as individuals. So to classify people as Muslims and Mormons in that sense is itself invalid.

Regards.

 

[it's_sam]

Unless God came to earth and said to it's people this is my prophet muhammed PBUH there is no way of saying he is INFACT a prophet of God regardless of his past or present situation. If he claims to recieve messages from this directly again the same can be said regardless of the outcome being "good". As i stated in another post there isnt one of us that knows whats best for everyone else, it takes all of us working individualy toward a common goal.

 

[Autodidact]

Hmmm... thought the video was pretty specific...

Sorry, not interested in being preached at. If you have an argument or a point to make, please make it.

How I can tell he (Muhammed PBUH) was telling the truth was what type of character he had , even before becoming a Prophet (PBUH)... and how he acted after becoming the Prophet(PBUH)... pretty much his whole life story indicates he was telling the truth...

It's not a complicated question. I don't know why I have to phrase it so many different ways. You say you would judge a purported prophet by his character. What character traits would you be looking for, that would lead you to conclude the person actually is a prophet?