Prove Magic?

[Taylor Seraphim]

Is there something you or I could do to prove that magic exists to me?

I would really really love to believe that it does, but I am a skeptic at heart.

 

[lovesong]

Magic isn't something anyone can prove to you, it's something you need to experience yourself to really understand.

 

[Riverwolf]

Honestly, it depends on how willing you are to play around with the term. That is, how willing you are to apply the word magic (at least for yourself) to things it's not traditionally associated with.

For instance, I generally think of most computational technology as basically a form of magic, and such folks as Steve Wozniak as basically wizards. (Not too much of a stretch: Dungeons and Dragons describes magic as something based in strange mathematics and arcane equations that need to be memorized... not unlike what Assembly Language is like).

Of course, that's not a traditional association, so I don't usually bring it up as "proof". It's not; I want to believe in magic, too, so this is the technique I use for myself so I can believe in a "kind of" magic without much cognitive dissonance, but also without any of the depressing cynicism that I associate with terms like "magic doesn't exist." Whether it works for you or not I can't say.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Is there something you or I could do to prove that magic exists to me?

I would really really love to believe that it does, but I am a skeptic at heart.

It depends on how you define magic (Yeah. I know. I crashed the party).

Like making pencils float in the air type of thing?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

It depends on how you define magic (Yeah. I know. I crashed the party).

Like making pencils float in the air type of thing?

Choas Magick, Witchcraft, Divination, etc.

 

[Kueid]

magic has a lot of styles and rituals and practices and etc.. one must study and experiment on their on to experience the results.. not all types of magic works with everyone.. you need to find your way of do it first, if you want practical results, but first prepare for a lot of theories.

there is also the veil that impede some of truly knowing it, but that's no excuse for failing in applying it in your life in a form that you can say "a believe in magic".

a lot of the books are boring and full of jargon that also difficult ones apprehension, that is something to be aware of too.

if I may and you are up to the challenge of become a practitioner I would recommend you to learn first what is magic. Define it first, the best you can. read about it from various sources to learn what it really is. After that, learn why do you want to know it. be honest always, cause this things are not to be taking lightly.

 

[1137]

If you're a skeptic you should be open to magic anyways, unless you're a modern pseudo-skeptic who thinks assuming materialistic atheism is fact equates to skepticism!

Magic is simply the ability to go against mechanistic nature, the natural order. Our very communication via the internet is proof of magic, nature would never create such a thing on it's own. Any time you've changed your nature, your mood, utilized self control, and so on you've done at least minor magic. The proof is everywhere just waiting for humans to open their eyes.

 

[Quintessence]

I can't help but to find questions like this silly because they just do not make sense to me. I have the same reaction to a question like this as I do to "prove to me your gods" or "prove to me your religion." The questions don't make sense to me. My general response to threads like "prove to me your religion" is "er... so you want me to tape myself doing ritual next time and post it on YouTube? Sorry, but that's really not my thing." You'd think folks would take me at my word that my religion does actually exist. This is, of course, not what they mean. They think that religion makes "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact," but mine isn't one of those. I regard spellcraft in the same way. It does not make "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact." You either practice a religion, or you don't; you either practice spellcraft, or you don't.

So... do you want me to tape myself meditating, doing ritual, or whatever next time and post it on YouTube?

 

[1137]

I can't help but to find questions like this silly because they just do not make sense to me. I have the same reaction to a question like this as I do to "prove to me your gods" or "prove to me your religion." The questions don't make sense to me. My general response to threads like "prove to me your religion" is "er... so you want me to tape myself doing ritual next time and post it on YouTube? Sorry, but that's really not my thing." You'd think folks would take me at my word that my religion does actually exist. This is, of course, not what they mean. They think that religion makes "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact," but mine isn't one of those. I regard spellcraft in the same way. It does not make "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact." You either practice a religion, or you don't; you either practice spellcraft, or you don't.

So... do you want me to tape myself meditating, doing ritual, or whatever next time and post it on YouTube?

Add in some spooky visual effects and we can call it empirical evidence!

 

[Quintessence]

Add in some spooky visual effects and we can call it empirical evidence!

LOL... well, I did some film production many years ago, but I never got to learning how to add special effects. That'll be a bit of a learning curve, unfortunately.

 

[1137]

@Taylor Seraphim , I've noticed you often ask questions like this, then refuse to engage posters. Can we expect further discussion on this topic?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

@Taylor Seraphim , I've noticed you often ask questions like this, then refuse to engage posters. Can we expect further discussion on this topic?

If they do not quote me or mention me, it does not show up in my alerts.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

If you're a skeptic you should be open to magic anyways, unless you're a modern pseudo-skeptic who thinks assuming materialistic atheism is fact equates to skepticism!

Magic is simply the ability to go against mechanistic nature, the natural order. Our very communication via the internet is proof of magic, nature would never create such a thing on it's own. Any time you've changed your nature, your mood, utilized self control, and so on you've done at least minor magic. The proof is everywhere just waiting for humans to open their eyes.

First of all, you are coming from a misconception.

Skepticism leads to that viewpoint in my experience, it does not start from it.

That's not what I meant by the word magic.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

@Taylor Seraphim , I've noticed you often ask questions like this, then refuse to engage posters. Can we expect further discussion on this topic?

If you want to stop trying to insult and lash out at everything you do not like, maybe I will.

 

[1137]

If they do not quote me or mention me, it does not show up in my alerts.

Ah fair enough. For me it tells me whenever someone comments on my threads. Perhaps you can change your settings?

First of all, you are coming from a misconception.

Skepticism leads to that viewpoint in my experience, it does not start from it.

That's not what I meant by the word magic.

I'm sorry, the one who doesnt even practice magic but we have to go by your definition? I'm sorry, but no.

If you want to stop trying to insult and lash out at everything you do not like, maybe I will.

I wasn't lashing out, I was wondering if we were going to hear back from you. Especially on topics like magic many of us discuss personal and in depth topics. Most of us also respect out time, and don't want to throw it away on in depth discussion someone isn't actually interested in. Considering that you've already said we have to fit your non practicing definition of magic, ignoring the many definitions out there, I can't imagine you actually expect serious participation and some want us to know how wrong we are, as in all your threads. But if I'm wrong, I'd encourage more open minded and active discussion on your part.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Ah fair enough. For me it tells me whenever someone comments on my threads. Perhaps you can change your settings?



I'm sorry, the one who doesnt even practice magic but we have to go by your definition? I'm sorry, but no.



I wasn't lashing out, I was wondering if we were going to hear back from you. Especially on topics like magic many of us discuss personal and in depth topics. Most of us also respect out time, and don't want to throw it away on in depth discussion someone isn't actually interested in. Considering that you've already said we have to fit your non practicing definition of magic, ignoring the many definitions out there, I can't imagine you actually expect serious participation and some want us to know how wrong we are, as in all your threads. But if I'm wrong, I'd encourage more open minded and active discussion on your part.

If I ask for you to prove that unicorns exist and you try to tell me that elephants are unicorns because of your definition, is that fair?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

I can't help but to find questions like this silly because they just do not make sense to me. I have the same reaction to a question like this as I do to "prove to me your gods" or "prove to me your religion." The questions don't make sense to me. My general response to threads like "prove to me your religion" is "er... so you want me to tape myself doing ritual next time and post it on YouTube? Sorry, but that's really not my thing." You'd think folks would take me at my word that my religion does actually exist. This is, of course, not what they mean. They think that religion makes "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact," but mine isn't one of those. I regard spellcraft in the same way. It does not make "truth" claims that should be accepted as "fact." You either practice a religion, or you don't; you either practice spellcraft, or you don't.

So... do you want me to tape myself meditating, doing ritual, or whatever next time and post it on YouTube?

Trying to do magic =/= magic.

 

[Quintessence]

If I ask for you to prove that unicorns exist and you try to tell me that elephants are unicorns because of your definition, is that fair?

Well, if you want to understand climate science, who are you going to ask? People who actually do climate science or random people on the internet? Asking either group is fair. However, a good understanding of climate science is going to happen by listening to climate scientists. Similarly, a good understanding of spellcraft happens by listening to the people who actually practice it.

 

[Quintessence]

Trying to do magic =/= magic.

Huh? Where was there trying? If you practice something, you are doing it.

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

Well, if you want to understand climate science, who are you going to ask? People who actually do climate science or random people on the internet? Asking either group is fair. However, a good understanding of climate science is going to happen by listening to climate scientists. Similarly, a good understanding of spellcraft happens by listening to the people who actually practice it.

Okay lets get something straight.

I HAVE tried magic.

Wiccan traditions, ceremonial high magic, folk witchcraft, rune magic, tarot readings, neo-elemental magic, and chaos magick.

So I am not talking out of my *** here Quintessence.

Now if you would like to address the thread, that would be great.

I am in a really foul mood at the moment because I am being treated like an ignorant child for asking a question on a subject that I am knowledgeable in so that I can be proven wrong and all I get is rhetoric.