Prove: Satan does (not) exist

[stvdv]

Wow.... just.... wow. The twisted cognitive dissonance you have to go through, to turn the meaning of the word on it's head?

In order to soothe the fact the ugly theology of christianity requires infinite torment-- which is synonymous with infinite torture.

. Smiley because I like your creativity to unravel the twists; not because I like torture of course

Sometimes torment is even worse than torture. I think of someone committing suicide because of torment. First thought that comes to mind here is "Satan-concept". This proves your point.

To compare them I take death to be the worst. But some (#metoo) might argue that death is better than certain torture. So it's all quite personal.

 

[stvdv]

And? "self torment" is absolutely bogus.

1) From Advaita POV "Self torment" is bogus indeed

2) From POV "self torment" due to "Christian imposing Satan on others" I also agree; as I would call this "Christian inflicted torment".

Note: If a Christian feels offended by reality, then in future "just don't do it again"

 

[nPeace]

That is most important IMO.
I am careful to say "this is truth or fact". But "we humans see things differently" seems to be true


Almost correct.

"truth" is for me relative to each person, whereas "Truth" is the Absolute "Truth".

God knows the "Truth" IMO, and not all people who claim to know the "Truth" really know the "Truth", hence I use "truth" in that case, and reserve "Truth" for God.

I leave it to God to decide whether or not I or you or other humans know the "truth" or the "Truth"; not for me to judge.

Fair enough. I think I understand.

 

[stvdv]

Really? Yet... this "god" of yours allows Satan pretty much free reign to do whatever otherwise...

... hmmm...

It would seem, then, that by your argument above? Satan is God's Agent, only doing what God tells Satan to do...

stvdv seems to be off limits for Satan

 

[night912]

Don't be silly your challenge to Satan doesn't work and never will. Satan is already dead, I killed him already.

 

[stvdv]

Don't be silly your challenge to Satan doesn't work and never will. Satan is already dead, I killed him already.

Thank you very much for your contribution (to this thread, RF and most of all the well being of the world)

But don't be too sure.
There are quite a few on RF, who try very hard, by mental power to recreate Satan.

We all know it takes 9 month to recreate Satan. So, what year did you kill Satan?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There can be nothingness because there is no such thing. Non-sequiter is his nihilist demon brother.

Again: words in a row, without a real-world equivalent.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No, it is not twisted or bogus, Just reality..

That would be another false claim you have made-- utterly without a single point of reference.

Not even your own bible agrees with you, here.

If people were created to be in an eternal, loving, joyful relationship with their Creator .

IF. It would appear that your bible does not support this bogus claim of yours.

... and if the lives of humans made in God's image are sustained by His life-giving power, .

IF. Again, you make a claim without a single shred of evidence.

... then for one to reject God, His love, His goodness, His beauty, is to reject Life itself by one's own choice. The result is lonely, self-inflicted despair. .

False. Your "then" does not even follow your pair of unproven "IF", earlier.

Free Will cannot exist within the power-sphere of an All Powerful God. Just for starters.

But even if if did? Infinite torture is not Loving. So you got THAT wrong too.

Torment is not synonymous with torture and BTW biblical theology does not require infinite torment since the entire theme and gospel message is that Jesus saves and God desires that none should perish, but receive eternal life.

False yet again. The bible is clear-- it's torture. Because there is an active agent-- YOUR GOD-- who has caused the events to happen.

Torment would be like falling into a volcano or something.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

. Smiley because I like your creativity to unravel the twists; not because I like torture of course

Sometimes torment is even worse than torture. I think of someone committing suicide because of torment. First thought that comes to mind here is "Satan-concept". This proves your point.

To compare them I take death to be the worst. But some (#metoo) might argue that death is better than certain torture. So it's all quite personal.

I quite agree: Death can be a release for an individual who's life has become unbearable and no longer worthy of life.

And that's the final clincher, isn't it? The worst human thug, who beats up on another human-- even for years-- there is eventual release in death for the victim.

But. Under the ugly theology that teaches "Hell"? There is no release-- the suffering continues forever and ever (to quoth the scripture).

And the worst part about that? This endless torment-- this endless torture-- is apparently by DESIGN...!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

stvdv seems to be off limits for Satan

Indeed: I have never ever read of an atheist who suffered demon possession.

In fact, demon possession only ever seems to happen to christians.....? Coincidence?

I think not.

 

[stvdv]

Indeed: I have never ever read of an atheist who suffered demon possession.

In fact, demon possession only ever seems to happen to christians.....? Coincidence?

I think not.

Oh, I did not know that.

If I did not know maybe Christians also don't know. If true then that is almost like evidence what a bad concept Satan is

 

[stvdv]

But. Under the ugly theology that teaches "Hell"? There is no release-- the suffering continues forever and ever (to quoth the scripture).

I would call them sadists + masochist

And the worst part about that? This endless torment-- this endless torture-- is apparently by DESIGN...!

Designer requests to Love Him above all
Needs no genius to see the hypocrisy IMO

or

This was Jollywood(Jeruzalem) scriptwriter

 

[susanblange]

Then are you saying you are the Messiah? That's quite a claim if so.

I am the Messiah. I made my first appearance in the beginning of 1984. I was in the newspapers and my picture was published all over the world. Isaiah 52:13-15. I am forgotten "as a dead man out of mind..." Psalm 31:12. In 1984, the "acceptable year of the Lord" (Isaiah 61:2), I ended the Cold War, I ended the civil war in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics, I restored pride to the US Military, and in 1988 I began to get the Jews out of Russia. On VWD Day, my enemies will be cut off by fire. Psalm 37:20, Psalm 97:3, Psalm 141:6. VWD stands for Vengeance, Wrath, and Destruction. This will mainly affect the legal system where I live. The Judges, Magistrates, Police, Sheriffs, Lawyers, Clerks, all the way down to the 911 operators. Isaiah 10:1-4. It's for widespread corruption and a conspiracy to obstruct justice. The 1985 movie, "Desperately Seeking Susan" was about me.

 

[susanblange]

That would be another false claim you have made-- utterly without a single point of reference.

Not even your own bible agrees with you, here.



IF. It would appear that your bible does not support this bogus claim of yours.



IF. Again, you make a claim without a single shred of evidence.


False. Your "then" does not even follow your pair of unproven "IF", earlier.

Free Will cannot exist within the power-sphere of an All Powerful God. Just for starters.

But even if if did? Infinite torture is not Loving. So you got THAT wrong too.



False yet again. The bible is clear-- it's torture. Because there is an active agent-- YOUR GOD-- who has caused the events to happen.

Torment would be like falling into a volcano or something.

There is no fire in Hell, the fire is going to be on earth. The Messiah is literally going to set the world on fire. Fire is a symbol of holiness. Hell is not physical torture, it is mental terror. All sin is conceived of in the mind before being acted upon and Hell is not forever. If you go to Hell when you die, eventually your spirit will be extinguished and you will cease to exist. Hell is a black hole. It is darkness, freezing cold, hyper gravity, and a bottomless pit.

 

[stvdv]

I am the Messiah

The Messiah is literally going to set the world on fire. Fire is a symbol of holiness.

So you will set the world on fire !

As long as it is Holiness I give you my Blessings

Especially if the girl "on fire" is this cute:

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Oh, I did not know that.

If I did not know maybe Christians also don't know. If true then that is almost like evidence what a bad concept Satan is

My take on the subject? Unless you believe in a theology that includes "possession", you are not subconsciously subject to the suggestive compelling that triggers this phenomena.

People who are undergoing severe mental distress, regardless of the cause of the distress, can be easily influenced, I think--if you feed into what's already in their head. Feeding into childhood indoctrinated fears, such as "demon possession" would not be difficult to do to someone in that mental state.

In truth, I rather pity any victims of this-- we have documented cases of severe abuse at the hands of the "exorcists". Even deaths.

The greatest Evil often happens, when people think they are doing some "Greater Good".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There is no fire in Hell, the fire is going to be on earth. The Messiah is literally going to set the world on fire. Fire is a symbol of holiness. Hell is not physical torture, it is mental terror. All sin is conceived of in the mind before being acted upon and Hell is not forever. If you go to Hell when you die, eventually your spirit will be extinguished and you will cease to exist. Hell is a black hole. It is darkness, freezing cold, hyper gravity, and a bottomless pit.

Any theology that teaches there is a Hell? Regardless of the length? Is morally bankrupt, IMO.

Contrariwise? I've yet to see a Heaven that was worthy of the concept behind the name.

With one, singular exception. Ironically? It comes from a Parody religion: Pastafarianism.

One of the best stories that expose the raving hypocrisy that is "heaven/hell" was written by Robert Heinlein, in the story: JOB: A Comedy Of Justice.

 

[stvdv]

I could only give you 1 winner. But there were 5

My take on the subject? Unless you believe in a theology that includes "possession", you are not subconsciously subject to the suggestive compelling that triggers this phenomena

YES. Hence I do not let these Christian Voodoo practitioners get to me (who try to impose Satan on me). And definitely I don't bite when they tell me the "onus" or whatever is on me, when I discard their Satan claim

People who are undergoing severe mental distress, regardless of the cause of the distress, can be easily influenced, I think--if you feed into what's already in their head.

And all kids have stress nowadays. Lucky for kids Christianity is on the decline now

Feeding into childhood indoctrinated fears, such as "demon possession" would not be difficult to do to someone in that mental state

That is how Voodoo works. First get them scared. Rest is easy. Church knows this perfectly well (no coincidence they use it, still now). Hence this thread. Glad you gave all your valuable insights.

In truth, I rather pity any victims of this-- we have documented cases of severe abuse at the hands of the "exorcists". Even deaths.

Have you personally documented it?

20 years ago a man cursed me, while in India, telling me he was doing black magic and he would kill me unless I gave him 100$. From then on I decided not to believe in anything of Satan, Devil, Voodoo (I did not give that money)

Lady friend had a similar experience, but she believed in this BS. She died very slowly (within a few years) at young age (ca. 45). Can be coincidence some might say, and I can't proof it. But I refuse to believe in this. Mind is a powerful tool, can go both ways

The greatest Evil often happens, when people think they are doing some "Greater Good".

They easily become arrogant and leading to narcissism or even psychopath

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I could only give you 1 winner. But there were 5

YES. Hence I do not let these Christian Voodoo practitioners get to me (who try to impose Satan on me). And definitely I don't bite when they tell me the "onus" or whatever is on me, when I discard their Satan claim


And all kids have stress nowadays. Lucky for kids Christianity is on the decline now


That is how Voodoo works. First get them scared. Rest is easy. Church knows this perfectly well (no coincidence they use it, still now). Hence this thread. Glad you gave all your valuable insights.


Have you personally documented it?

20 years ago a man cursed me, while in India, telling me he was doing black magic and he would kill me unless I gave him 100$. From then on I decided not to believe in anything of Satan, Devil, Voodoo (I did not give that money)

Lady friend had a similar experience, but she believed in this BS. She died very slowly (within a few years) at young age (ca. 45). Can be coincidence some might say, and I can't proof it. But I refuse to believe in this. Mind is a powerful tool, can go both ways


They easily become arrogant and leading to narcissism or even psychopath

There are cases here in the USA, where people, including children, have died. At first, it was declared "accidental" or "mysterious circumstances". However, upon further investigation it was discovered the victim had been subjected to "exorcism" rituals.

Sadly, this is not uncommon, so much so, it barely registers as 'news' anymore.

 

[InChrist]

That would be another false claim you have made-- utterly without a single point of reference.

Not even your own bible agrees with you, here.



IF. It would appear that your bible does not support this bogus claim of yours.



IF. Again, you make a claim without a single shred of evidence.


False. Your "then" does not even follow your pair of unproven "IF", earlier.

Free Will cannot exist within the power-sphere of an All Powerful God. Just for starters.

But even if if did? Infinite torture is not Loving. So you got THAT wrong too.



False yet again. The bible is clear-- it's torture. Because there is an active agent-- YOUR GOD-- who has caused the events to happen.

Torment would be like falling into a volcano or something.

To torture someone means the active involvement of inflicting pain on the person. You seem to think that God does this, yet such a belief is in total contradiction to the scriptures which are perfectly clear that it is the person who rejects God and SEPARATES themselves from God (free will). So if a person is SEPARATE from God for eternity, then it is not God torturing them. Their torment is self-inflicted.

What is your religious/spiritual background or how did you come up with your ideas concerning God or the Bible, if you don't mind sharing?