Prove that humans aren't blind to God's existence

[little_monkey]

Agreed ,

As a muslim My faith is "No God But Allah" the default assumption.

In your case, the unaware assumption is brainwashing...

 

[Magic Man]

Color blind individuals have an inability to perceive differences between some of the colors that others can distinguish. You are suggesting that this deficiency means there is not objective color. Do you also suggest that because one person is completely blind there exists no visual form, that because one person does not see there is nothing to be seen?

There is no visual form for that blind person. We create the world by experiencing it. I'm saying that we create color. My shirt is not purple. It only appears that way to the brain through the eyeballs. Otherwise it would just be blank. That's the main point I was trying to make. You could say the same with anything. We are just a collection of particles that our eyes and brain turn into the shapes we see. Therefore, each brain is going to have a different take on them.

 

[little_monkey]

I am not an expert on the Theory of Relativity, so here is a wikipedia excerpt:

Special relativity is a theory of the structure of spacetime. It was introduced in Albert Einstein's 1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies". Special relativity is based on two postulates which are contradictory in classical mechanics:

1. The laws of physics are the same for all observers in uniform motion relative to one another (Galileo's principle of relativity),
2. The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light.

Both precepts state that the laws of physics are "the same for all observers in uniform motion relative to one another". It does not state that the laws of physics are different for all observers relative to one another. If the laws of physics were based on belief they would be different for each one of us. They aren't, we both fall out of an airplane at the same speed.

In essence, you are quite right. The laws of physics are the same for everyone. The word 'relative' in the theory of Relativity is misleading. The theory is based on the Lorentz transformation equations (LT) -- just a set of equation that allows one observer to translate his data by taking into account his speed relative to another observer.

Say observer A, is moving at 99.99% of the speed of light in relation to an observer B on planet Earth. Say A is going to Andromeda, app. 3 million light-years away. Upon arrival A will calculate that it took him 28000 years, instead of the 3 million years. But B will point out to A, using LT, that A's 28000 years are the same as his 3 million years. B will conclude that A's clock slowed down, tho' A will have been unaware of that during his trip.

 

[Willamena]

In essence, you are quite right. The laws of physics are the same for everyone. The word 'relative' in the theory of Relativity is misleading... one observer to translate his data by taking into account his speed relative to another observer.

That's what "relative" is --where does it mislead?

 

[little_monkey]

That's what "relative" is --where does it mislead?

Read the second part of my post 203.

 

[Willamena]

Read the second part of my post 203.

Yes. That expands descriptively on the "relative" aspect, but doesn't explain how or in what way it is misleading.

I was just curious what it is you may have thought to be the 'miss' and what it is leading away from.

 

[little_monkey]

Yes. That expands descriptively on the "relative" aspect, but doesn't explain how or in what way it is misleading.

I was just curious what it is you may have thought to be the 'miss' and what it is leading away from.

The mistake that people often make is about the word 'relative'. In the theory of Relativity, the word 'relative' only applies to the speed. It does not apply to the general aspects of the laws of physics. Relativity is governed by a set of transformation laws, and these apply everywhere. They are universal. Now, the results that you get -- time dilation, space contraction, for instances -- might lend an appearance of relativity, but it isn't so. These effects are real and have been measured over and over in labs.

 

[Autodidact]

Agreed ,

As a muslim My faith is "No God But Allah" the default assumption


Surah 3:18

18. There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise

O.K., then why are you a Muslim?

 

[PureX]

The mistake that people often make is about the word 'relative'. In the theory of Relativity, the word 'relative' only applies to the speed. It does not apply to the general aspects of the laws of physics. Relativity is governed by a set of transformation laws, and these apply everywhere. They are universal. Now, the results that you get -- time dilation, space contraction, for instances -- might lend an appearance of relativity, but it isn't so. These effects are real and have been measured over and over in labs.

I believe that the effect of the theory of relativity on general cultural philosophy has to do with our perception relative to relationship to that which is being perceived. It's the reality of a simple Dopler effect, for example. A vehicle emitting a sound at the pitch of middle "C", as it speeds down a road, will sound as though it is emitting a higher pitch as it comes toward us on the road, and a lower pitch as it is moving away from us on the road. Yet the pitch will remain at middle "C" for anyone riding in the vehicle. And it's not an "illusion", as the pitch really IS different as experienced from each position. It's the fact that reality IS different relative to the perspective from which we experience it that has been so profoundly changing the cultural philosophy of modern human kind.

If the "truth" is "what is". Than there are three different truths, simultaneously, for this scenario, depending upon the position from which we are assessing it. This is the "relativism"of post-modern culture.

 

[little_monkey]

I believe that the effect of the theory of relativity on general cultural philosophy has to do with our perception relative to relationship to that which is being perceived. It's the reality of a simple Dopler effect, for example. A vehicle emitting a sound at the pitch of middle "C", as it speeds down a road, will sound as though it is emitting a higher pitch as it comes toward us on the road, and a lower pitch as it is moving away from us on the road. Yet the pitch will remain at middle "C" for anyone riding in the vehicle. And it's not an "illusion", as the pitch really IS different as experienced from each position. It's the fact that reality IS different relative to the perspective from which we experience it that has been so profoundly changing the cultural philosophy of modern human kind.

If the "truth" is "what is". Than there are three different truths, simultaneously, for this scenario, depending upon the position from which we are assessing it. This is the "relativism"of post-modern culture.

These experiences seems to be different phenomena, but with some investigation one can show that they really have a common source (hearing a sound from a vehicle). Hence that reality exists outside of yourself. It also means that you can't just rely on your senses alone, since they can easily fool you.

 

[Imagist]

In questions of existence, non-existence is the default assumption.

Agreed ,

As a muslim My faith is "No God But Allah" the default assumption

Surah 3:18

18. There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise

This isn't your default assumption on questions of existence; it is only your default assumption on the single question of whether god exists. You assume this based on the text of an arbitrarily chosen book.

Think of how silly it would be if you did this for everything. Do you want to lose weight? Grab the first diet book you find and follow it even if it tells you only to eat grapefruit and anchovies. Not sure about who to vote for? Form your opinion based on whatever political pundit you see first on TV.

Of course, most people know better than to do these things. But for some reason otherwise sane people throw out their better judgment when it comes to religion.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

In your case, the unaware assumption is brainwashing...

heart washing from dirt not brain washing , :angel2:

 

[little_monkey]

heart washing from dirt not brain washing , :angel2:

When you take a baby, and constantly repeat in his ears, "No God But Allah" for years upon years, and then that baby grows into an adult who then keeps saying, "No God But Allah", then as far as I know this IS brainwashing.

 

[Willamena]

These experiences seems to be different phenomena, but with some investigation one can show that they really have a common source (hearing a sound from a vehicle). Hence that reality exists outside of yourself. It also means that you can't just rely on your senses alone, since they can easily fool you.

Heck, even yourself exists outside of yourself.

Your senses are all you have to rely on --mind is a composite of sensory, remembered (imaged) and imagined (extrapolated or predictive) data.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree. Maybe your understanding of belief is different than mine. Perhaps you are mistaking belief for faith. Belief is something that you are assured of, otherwise, how could you call it a "belief"?

I believe I will not have a flat tire any time soon, but I still carry a spare. Belief is not the same thing as certainty.

If you are convinced of something, that is called 'belief'. If you have evidenced something, it is called 'knowledge'. Is one more valuable than the other?

It's also called 'belief' if you tentatively operate on the assumption that something is true based on the preponderance of evidence immediately at hand, but reserve final judgement until all the facts are in.

 

[logician]

THe dictionary definition of belief looks a lot like faith

1.something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

 

[little_monkey]

Heck, even yourself exists outside of yourself.

Your senses are all you have to rely on --mind is a composite of sensory, remembered (imaged) and imagined (extrapolated or predictive) data.

Agree, and by the same token, the mind with its capacity to imagine can also allow us to build tools that can vastly expand our sensory perception - radar, MRI, scanner, earing devices, infrared vision, etc.

Also, the mind has a capacity to organize our imagined thoughts, so that we can construct mental models of how the universe works, and in so doing, increase our imagined understanding of what we perceive through our senses.

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

When you take a baby, and constantly repeat in his ears, "No God But Allah" for years upon years, and then that baby grows into an adult who then keeps saying, "No God But Allah", then as far as I know this IS brainwashing.

Who told that ?

do you know the unseen ?

get real !, you assume things in advance.

It is not bad for you at all to be skeptical, yes any one has to seek his way to find the truth, but don't trifle.

tell me what do you obey , i will tell who is your God?

 

[little_monkey]

Who told that ?

do you know the unseen ?

get real !, you assume things in advance.

It is not bad for you at all to be skeptical, yes any one has to seek his way to find the truth, but don't trifle.

tell me what do you obey , i will tell who is your God?

No one has told me that, but more than 90% of the world population end up believing the same as their parents. A meager 10% will change their religious belief in their lifetime from what they were told since infancy. Perhaps, you belong to that 10%, but it is not what the vast majority experiences.

So no, this is no trifle, just hard facts.

And I obey no one.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

do you know the unseen ?

get real !, you assume things in advance.

No one knows the unseen. All beliefs about the unseen are assumptions in advance.