Prove that humans aren't blind to God's existence

[mohammed_beiruti]

By quoting lines from a book that is full of nonsense. Obviously, you believe in that. Sorry, I don't.

I have pointed to you why you believe in that -- brainwashing -- which you have conveniently avoided to address.

did you read it anyway ?

and why nonsense ?

 

[little_monkey]

did you read it anyway ?

and why nonsense ?

Anyone who has declared himself to be the messenger of god is delusional. And those who subsequently have followed his words have not been very skeptical to say the least.

 

[Magic Man]

But you don't reject it, either.

It seems to me the way Tom is using "reject", I am actually rejecting all of it.

 

[Magic Man]

Anyone who has declared himself to be the messenger of god is delusional.

How do you know this to be true in every case without doubt?

 

[tomspug]

Do you always assume that people who disagree with you are ignorant?

That's hilarious. You were just using the same argument against me.

 

[tomspug]

Only Christianity? Why that particular belief system? Do you apply this to yourself? Have you explored all other belief systems as they really are? How much time have you spent meditating? Being open to revelation from Krishna? Or doing anything else you're asking me to do for just one religion? Hypocritical much?

Do you see what a nifty, self-confirming, circular system you've got here? Everyone who agrees with you is right. Everyone who doesn't is stubborn and unwilling to explore Christianity as it really is. Anyone can play this game. I'm not calling you a liar, just a delusional idiot unwilling to deal with reality as it really is. Fun, eh?

Here's your problem, toms. Let's say, just as a thought experiment, that I'm completely nuts. I suffer auditory and visual hallucinations that cause me to see space aliens all around us, and they're as real to me as everything else. Let's say I want to check if they're real or a hallucination, so I ask someone else, and they say they don't see anything. Well, I say to myself, the space aliens have controlled that person's brain so they're invisible to him. Or, they're in on the plot, and do see them, but are lying to me as part of their evil scheme. Or, they don't know how to look right and see what's really there. I now have created a neat system in which it is impossible for me to check whether what I'm seeing is real or just a hallucination. Sound familiar?

Do you notice that every time I defend my views, I don't personally attack you?

Despite what you think, I don't walk around invalidating every religion that gets mentioned. I am respectful of other religions, unlike you, who with every word never fails to insult every person that believes in God or the idea of God.

Seriously, dude. Who is the one who is ignorant? I think it's the one whose argument is that most people are stupid and believe that unicorns are real. You obviously know NOTHING about religion.

 

[little_monkey]

How do you know this to be true in every case without doubt?

Why is there such a wide problem with reading skills for internet users?

My post also said: And those who subsequently have followed his words have not been very skeptical to say the least.

Hint, hint...The answer you are looking for, wink, wink, is staring at you.

 

[Autodidact]

That's hilarious. You were just using the same argument against me.

Cite?

 

[Autodidact]

Do you notice that every time I defend my views, I don't personally attack you?

Nor I you. I am responding to your arguments with arguments.

But actually, so far you've called me a liar and deliberately blind, but that's O.K.--I still responded to your arguments. Now would you like to respond to mine?

Despite what you think, I don't walk around invalidating every religion that gets mentioned. I am respectful of other religions, unlike you, who with every word never fails to insult every person that believes in God or the idea of God.

You mean you do know Zoroastrianism in its true nature?

Seriously, dude. Who is the one who is ignorant? I think it's the one whose argument is that most people are stupid and believe that unicorns are real. You obviously know NOTHING about religion.

I didn''t see where I made that argument.

It's an argument, toms, not an insult.

Now would you like to respond to the ones I actually made? Thanks.

 

[Magic Man]

Why is there such a wide problem with reading skills for internet users?

My post also said: And those who subsequently have followed his words have not been very skeptical to say the least.

Hint, hint...The answer you are looking for, wink, wink, is staring at you.

Let's try this again:

How do you know for certain that any and every person who has declared himself to be God's messenger is delusional?

 

[Storm]

It seems to me the way Tom is using "reject", I am actually rejecting all of it.

What I meant was: "But you don't reject [physics] (without understanding it)."

You were raised Catholic, and remeanied Catholic until fairly recently, yes? So you understand Catholicism pretty well, I'd bet. You reject it from an informed position.

 

[Magic Man]

What I meant was: "But you don't reject [physics] (without understanding it)."

You were raised Catholic, and remeanied Catholic until fairly recently, yes? So you understand Catholicism pretty well, I'd bet. You reject it from an informed position.

Yes, I understand and agree. What I'm saying is that it seems to me that Tom is using "reject" to mean "not follow" or "not investigate". I would say that I reject calculus by his definition. At least that's how it comes off to me.

 

[Storm]

Hmm. Well, I'll let Tom speak for himself, but I don't get that.

 

[Magic Man]

Why must we explore Christianity in the first place?

Doesn't it seem odd to reject something of which you know nothing about?

Storm:

In other words, Tom implied that UnTheist is rejecting Christianity by not exploring it.

 

[Storm]

I don't want to debate what Tom meant or didn't mean, I think we should wait for him to speak for himself.

 

[Magic Man]

I don't want to debate what Tom meant or didn't mean, I think we should wait for him to speak for himself.

I hear ya, and, if that's not what he was going for, I hope he corrects me. I just wanted to explain my thinking to you.

 

[Storm]

I can see it, but I have to squint.

 

[tomspug]

Cite?

I'm not calling you a liar, just a delusional idiot unwilling to deal with reality as it really is. Fun, eh?

Would you like me to post all the other ones?

 

[tomspug]

Storm:

In other words, Tom implied that UnTheist is rejecting Christianity by not exploring it.

You were raised Catholic, and remeanied Catholic until fairly recently, yes? So you understand Catholicism pretty well, I'd bet. You reject it from an informed position.

Both are true. If you have not explored the religion, you have no knowledge. If you do not understand the religion, you are not informed experientially. This is correctly interpreting what I said. But more than anything, it is about understanding the PERSON within the religion and their experience. This is why calling a belief in God 'stupid' is a failure on that person's part.

Religion is a personal experience, so we can't judge the correctness of someone's views unless we have first, at the VERY least, understood the experience of the person in that religion. If you choose to simply REJECT that person's experience, then you really shouldn't be in the debate at all, because you will neither change your view nor effectively change anyone else's without knowledge and understanding.

 

[Storm]

Yes. This is correctly interpreting what I said.

Well then, I'm afraid I have to disgaree with you, too.

Religion is a personal experience, so we can't judge the correctness of someone's views unless we have first, at the VERY least, understood the experience of the person in that religion.

But how can you do that? We can't explore or share other people's experiences.

Ack, you changed it!

Both are true. If you have not explored the religion, you have no knowledge. If you do not understand the religion, you are not informed experientially. This is correctly interpreting what I said. But more than anything, it is about understanding the PERSON within the religion and their experience. This is why calling a belief in God 'stupid' is a failure on that person's part.

Now I kinda agree with you.