punished for beliefs in public school?

[outhouse]

This is regarding the well-justified true belief formulation.

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

 

[outhouse]

he argues against this perspective of well justified belief.

Not very well.

SOCRATES: But if true belief and knowledge were the same thing, the best of jurymen could never have a correct belief without knowledge. It now appears that they must be different things.

 

[outhouse]

And on a side note, your moving goal post using true belief, instead of just belief. Your he one who brought up "true belief" out of desperation.

 

[Curious George]

And on a side note, your moving goal post using true belief, instead of just belief. Your he one who brought up "true belief" out of desperation.

Is true belief not a form of belief?

 

[Curious George]

Not very well.

SOCRATES: But if true belief and knowledge were the same thing, the best of jurymen could never have a correct belief without knowledge. It now appears that they must be different things.

Plato has Socrates show that knowledge and belief are different in his discussion with theaetetus. This does not change that academia credits Plato with the concept that knowledge is justified-true-belief. A concept that was accepted until gettiers paper in 1963. This is despite Plato arguing against, in this one instance, the justified-true belief notion of knowledge to which we give Plato credit.

Now since gettiers paper we have tried to reformulate this concept of knowledge. It has been done in many ways. But no way espouses that knowledge is not a form of belief.

 

[Curious George]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Yes, this concept means that not all knowledge is justified true belief, because there exists instances of beliefs that are justified and true that are not considered by some knowledge. One of the ways that people have addressed these exceptions are by adding the adjective "well" to the formulation.

But there are no instances of knowledge that are not justified true belief, only instances of justified true belief that are not knowledge.

 

[Curious George]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Read the paper from which this thought was constructed. Type in gettier 1963 paper. It is only 3 pages.

However, I hope you realize that arguing knowledge is different from belief results in asserting a God of some form.

 

[outhouse]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

 

[outhouse]

Is true belief not a form of belief?

It is still moving goal post, and shown to not be correct.

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.

 

[jeager106]

It is still moving goal post, and shown to not be correct.

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.

Agreed.
I believe aliens from another star system are about to invade earth
and use humans as food. (yuk)
That's a belief, far fetched, but a believe and demonstrates zero
knowledge.
I have faith in the God of my understanding. Faith is a belief but not
knowledge.

The actions of the teachers were at best questionable and at worse damaging
to the child. Terrible actions from educated adults.

 

[Curious George]

It is still moving goal post, and shown to not be correct.

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.

I am not moving the goal posts. I have always maintained that knowledge is belief, just a specific form of belief. It is belief. All knowledge is belief but beliefs are not all knowledge. I don't know how to make it any clearer

 

[Curious George]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Find me a source that says knowledge is not a form of belief.

 

[outhouse]

Find me a source that says knowledge is not a form of belief.

I already did.

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.

 

[Curious George]

I already did.

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.

Apparently you don't understand what you are quoting.

That doesn't say that knowledge is not a form of belief.

 

[outhouse]

Apparently you don't understand what you are quoting.

That doesn't say that knowledge is not a form of belief.

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.


Notice how you cannot refute either statement. To know something does not require belief, because something is no longer believed when it is known.

 

[Curious George]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Belief can be incorrect, thus it is not knowledge, that is factual, and you cannot defend that position.


Notice how you cannot refute either statement. To know something does not require belief, because something is no longer believed when it is known.

True belief cannot be incorrect, but it is still belief.

Justified true belief cannot be incorrect but it is still belief.

Well justified true belief cannot be incorrect but it is still belief.

Knowledge can be incorrect but it is still belief.

 

[outhouse]

Knowledge can be incorrect but it is still belief.

Unsubstantiated rhetoric. You have yet provided a credible source showing a that this concept is settled in your favor.

It is factually not settled as you claim.


And using true belief in place of belief is moving goal post as they are not the same thing.

 

[outhouse]

Find me a source that says knowledge is not a form of belief.

. Beliefs are also very problematic not least because they are either true or false, and therefore cannot be adequately described by conventional logic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_knowledge

 

[Curious George]

Unsubstantiated rhetoric. You have yet provided a credible source showing a that this concept is settled in your favor.

It is factually not settled as you claim.


And using true belief in place of belief is moving goal post as they are not the same thing.

True belief is but a form of belief.

 

[Curious George]

we can be certain that ``knowledge is not, or is not merely, justified true belief"

Not merely is the key phrase here. Well justified true belief is not merely justified true belief.