So you're not answering the question. Noted.
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Putting the JW Stand on Evolution in Perspective
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I've already done that. More than once. The last one was just a couple of hours ago.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I've already answered your question by providing the information that I did.
Are you going to address that information, or not?
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Exactly my point. It's a Silver Gull, not a Seagull as claimed.... Three types of Gulls in Australia, Silver, Pacific and Kelp. There's actually a discussion on at the moment where some think the Silver Gull is more closely related to Terns than the other Gulls.
What's your point?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That our understanding of how long it could be preserved was most likely wrong.
But then you do not even have a clue as to what was discovered, besides its name.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
How you misapplied what the authors were saying was done a long long time ago. It was pointed out when you did it. What has been observed is an incorrect behavior of yours. It is a form of lying and as a Christian you should try to avoid it.
Tell me, is it proper to lie for Jesus? I thought that sort of belief actually makes Jesus look weaker. Why would you do that? If the Jesus story is true then there is not need to lie for him. As a Christian your behavior should be above those who you keep putting down.
Precambrian organisms provide no obvious ancestral ToL to those in the Cambrian! Don't you understand that? Gould did.
It's very simple.
If you think they do, then you are basing your belief on the flimsiest of evidence. Talk about poofing!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let's say that is the case, though there are some now with fairly clear precursors. What difference does that make? Why do you think that is a problem for evolution?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Gould did not agree with you. If you didn't quote mine him, you'd know that.
Though you should know since two people corrected your quote mining error.
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You are right.
But being judged by someone like you and others who manifest such closed-minded biases, is not too worrisome.
All the facts will be revealed in the future, which Jehovah has promised for mankind. (Revelation 21:3-4) You and I -- all of us -- "will know" who God is - Jeremiah 31:34.
It may take the Resurrection for most...but Jehovah will give almost everyone who's ever lived, another chance.
There'll be no obfuscation of any facts, past or present.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Now, now. No name calling. Especially since you are incredibly close minded yourself.
Sorry but Revelation was mostly the incoherent ranting of a man that was not terribly sane. It is not at all convincing.
Since I could never believe in a lying God I could never believe in your version. This is why you really should learn what is and what is not evidence. What the scientific method is and how it works. If you understood that there would be no question that either the theory of evolution is correct or that your version of God lied.
As to the Cambrian explosion you really should drop it. It is not a good argument against the theory of evolution at all. Perhaps this article from a Christian source will help:
Does the Cambrian Explosion pose a challenge to evolution?
Wow. I suppose it is OK to be closeminded, but to be it without an inkling of knowing you @Hockeycowboy actually are it is weird and bizarre.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are being taught that close-mindedness is a virtue, I did not make that up. It is true.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Whereas they also discourage scholarly pursuits as being "too worldly". So, between scientific study and listening to & obeying the "Governing Body", the latter must win out with them, plus any dissent tends to be quickly knocked down, usually through "disfellowshipping", which is similar to the Amish "shunning", that can really break-apart entire families.
I've lived next to two JW families for over 40 years now, and with one of them, the wife finally "had it" and left the JW's which then led to divorce.
When the average person sees any kind of "gull" they will immediately identify it as a "seagull". Gulls are "sea" birds, are they not? Your nit-picking is a smoke screen to mask the point of the information...it was about the gull's ability not to have its feet frozen when standing on ice.....it was about the design of the heat exchange, "anti-freezing" capability....not the species of gull....seriously.
How many ornithologists are among us?The average person is not an expert in many fields of study, and if a subject is presented in a simple manner, everyone can usually understand the basics of it. Science objects to simplification because it takes years of study to adopt the the teachings and the language, and let's face it, its impressive when you can hold a conversation that lay people can't understand....like being members of some sort of exclusive "club". It's nothing short of snobbery IMO. Many of the posters on this thread fit that description very well. All they have are personal insults and put downs, but very little actual defense. It's just bullying. Bullies are cowards....and they seldom operate alone. How dare we stand up to them and call them out on their unsubstantiated claims!
Using scientific terminology is a way to dazzle ordinary people with science so that they can pass off their assumptions, hidden in the high sounding jargon. If the simplified version sounds suspect....it's because it usually is. There is no hiding the simple truth when you strip it down to the bare bones. You can't go wrong with the KISS principle.
When those who accept faith based belief say that they support what they see and what appeals to normal human logic, it is freely admitted that there is no way to prove what their faith clearly presents to them.....but science has no real proof for what they believe either....and rather than admitting that most of what they believe about evolution is supposition and assumption, based on inference rather than any provable facts, they insist on defining it as absolute fact. It isn't and never will be. That is a very inconvenient truth.
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If you mean spending years in educational pursuits so that we can earn lots of money to finance a materialistic lifestyle in this corrupt world, then perhaps many of us would choose the simple forms of employment without the big stress that goes along with a big paycheck. We would rather live a simpler life so as to have more time for the important things in life. Like spiritual pursuits.
We see this world like the Titanic.....many people think it's 'unsinkable'....but we are about to hit the iceberg and nothing will keep this ship afloat. We have been busy preparing people to board the lifeboats. It's our choice based on the instructions Jesus gave us.
It's no time to be upgrading to a better cabin or rearranging the deck chairs.....ya know.
Jesus foretold that very situation....did you know that? (Matthew 10:34-36) The Catholic Church also has the right to excommunicate those who fail to live up to the teachings of their Leader (who is that BTW, Jesus Christ or the Pope?) It seems as if you would need to excommunicate the whole church, since they do not teach much of anything that Jesus did.
LOL....and of course your neighbors are representative of our whole brotherhood....
If my neighbors are representative of the Catholic Church then OMG, they are the doing what the Pope tells them to do and turning up to Mass every Sunday, but not exactly practicing their Christianity on many other days of the week.....is that what Jesus taught? (Matthew 7:16-20) It's about the "fruitage"....what kind of people are produced. Those with their feet firmly planted in God's word...or those who line up to pay homage to a fence post with a supposed image of Jesus on it, or perhaps a weeping statue of Mary?
People who live in glass houses and all.....
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You leave a person to wonder why their leader is the Pope but your leader is Jesus.
We can see clearly that you are being led by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses but you call it being led by Jesus.
I wonder if you can ever realize that what you really are is a servant of the governing body with your feet planted in whatever they say God's Word is.
When the average person sees any kind of "gull" they will immediately identify it as a "seagull". Gulls are "sea" birds, are they not? Your nit-picking is a smoke screen to mask the point of the information...it was about the gull's ability not to have its feet frozen when standing on ice.....it was about the design of the heat exchange, "anti-freezing" capability....not the species of gull....seriously.
It's hugely important especially if you're trying to educate people. Have a look at the geographic range of Silver Gulls and ask yourself why a Silver Gull would need anti freeze feet. Kind of a stupid thing to design in them. It's more likely a redundant evolutionary trait from further back. Your logic is flawed. If they can't get the species right what else are they getting wrong.
The average person is not an expert in many fields of study, and if a subject is presented in a simple manner, everyone can usually understand the basics of it. Science objects to simplification because it takes years of study to adopt the the teachings and the language, and let's face it, its impressive when you can hold a conversation that lay people can't understand....like being members of some sort of exclusive "club". It's nothing short of snobbery IMO. Many of the posters on this thread fit that description very well. All they have are personal insults and put downs, but very little actual defence. It's just bullying. Bullies are cowards....and they seldom operate alone. How dare we stand up to them and call them out on their unsubstantiated claims!
Using scientific terminology is a way to dazzle ordinary people with science so that they can pass off their assumptions, hidden in the high sounding jargon. If the simplified version sounds suspect....it's because it usually is. There is no hiding the simple truth when you strip it down to the bare bones. You can't go wrong with the KISS principle.
When those who accept faith based belief say that they support what they see and what appeals to normal human logic, it is freely admitted that there is no way to prove what their faith clearly presents to them.....but science has no real proof for what they believe either....and rather than admitting that most of what they believe about evolution is supposition and assumption, based on inference rather than any provable facts, they insist on defining it as absolute fact. It isn't and never will be. That is a very inconvenient truth.
The rest is just your usual condescending dribble and childish attempts to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. Logic tells me a lot about that.