Question about Christianity.

[HoldemDB9]

Imagine someone who tries their absolute hardest to be a good person and to find truth, but they happen to come to the conclusion that Christianity is false (there is plenty of them). Do you believe that this person will be punished in anyway by God for not believing? What does the Bible have to say about someone who did the best they could possibly ever do, but came to a false conclusion?

For those who do believe that God punishes and rewards based on what we think is true, can you please explain how this is anything less than pure and utter evil?

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Imagine someone who tries their absolute hardest to be a good person and to find truth, but they happen to come to the conclusion that Christianity is false (there is plenty of them). Do you believe that this person will be punished in anyway by God for not believing? What does the Bible have to say about someone who did the best they could possibly ever do, but came to a false conclusion?

For those who do believe that God punishes and rewards based on what we think is true, can you please explain how this is anything less than pure and utter evil?

Can there really be any other logical explanation other than that the Bible is largely the work of man and any spiritual truth it may point to is largely obscured?

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Imagine someone who tries their absolute hardest to be a good person and to find truth, but they happen to come to the conclusion that Christianity is false (there is plenty of them). Do you believe that this person will be punished in anyway by God for not believing? What does the Bible have to say about someone who did the best they could possibly ever do, but came to a false conclusion?

For those who do believe that God punishes and rewards based on what we think is true, can you please explain how this is anything less than pure and utter evil?

Before I begin, I'd just like to ask your opinion of why it is that holding people accountable for their thoughts is evil?

 

[Sunstone]

Before I begin, I'd just like to ask your opinion of why it is that holding people accountable for their thoughts is evil?

Are you seriously suggesting that we return to the Dark Ages when certain thoughts were a crime?

 

[Storm]

Before I begin, I'd just like to ask your opinion of why it is that holding people accountable for their thoughts is evil?

Methinks you missed the point. There's a difference between holding people accountable, and punishing them for guessing wrong.

 

[Wandered Off]

There's a difference between holding people accountable, and punishing them for guessing wrong.

Very true, and another still for punishing people for beliefs, over which they have only limited control.

 

[Sunstone]

To make any thought, no matter how heinous, a crime is barbaric. Something only a fanatic would do.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Are you seriously suggesting that we return to the Dark Ages when certain thoughts were a crime?

No. I think I was more getting ahead of myself than missing the point. I got the impression that ultimately, this debate boils down to:

God created Bob. Bob had thoughts. From these thoughts, Bob created beliefs contrary to God's truth. Why should Bob be accountable for the thoughts he has, and the beliefs he derives from them.

I'm not suggesting we start making thoughts criminal. Nor should a thought necessarily be grounds for a sin, but the propagation of certain thoughts, and the beliefs derived from this could be construed as such.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Do you believe that this person will be punished in anyway by God for not believing?

Yes. As a Christian, I obviously believe that belief in God is mandatory for one to enter heaven, and people who do not believe in God cannot do so.

What does the Bible have to say about someone who did the best they could possibly ever do, but came to a false conclusion?

He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

That seems fairly self-explanatory to me.

For those who do believe that God punishes and rewards based on what we think is true, can you please explain how this is anything less than pure and utter evil?

God punishes and rewards based on whether or not one follows his Word. I find it perfectly reasonable that God would set down certain rules for his followers to follow. If you can't follow the statutes He's set down, then you can't be rewarded.

Or definitions of evil may differ, but I don't think it's purely and utterly evil for God to ask us to maintain our faith and follow his commands in order to enter eternal life with Him.

 

[Storm]

Yes. As a Christian, I obviously believe that belief in God is mandatory for one to enter heaven, and people who do not believe in God cannot do so.

It's not all that obvious. There are Christians who believe otherwise, that God will judge us based not on what we believe, but how we live. A vastly superior belief, imo.

He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

That seems fairly self-explanatory to me.

Sounds like self-congratualting exclusionary BS to me, not the word of God. Hardly convincing.

God punishes and rewards based on whether or not one follows his Word. I find it perfectly reasonable that God would set down certain rules for his followers to follow. If you can't follow the statutes He's set down, then you can't be rewarded.

Then why doesn't He deliver His Word in such a manner that we could all recognize it for what it is?

Or definitions of evil may differ, but I don't think it's purely and utterly evil for God to ask us to maintain our faith and follow his commands in order to enter eternal life with Him.

It wouldn't be evil if He gave us something solid to go off of, but He doesn't. If I ask you to guess my favorite color, and shoot you if you guess wrong, is that evil?

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

It's not all that obvious. There are Christians who believe otherwise, that God will judge us based not on what we believe, but how we live. A vastly superior belief, imo.

Of course, I should have been clearer. I wasn't implying that the ONLY thing one must do to enter Heaven is to believe in God. I also believe we are judged by our actions, how we live- however, if one truly believes in God, they would display that belief, that faith, through their actions.

Following his word is what saves us. Belief and good actions are both a part of that.

Sounds like self-congratualting exclusionary BS to me, not the word of God. Hardly convincing.

The question was what the Bible has to say about people who come to the conclusion that Christianity is false, and that is what the Bible says: Belief=salvation, disbelief=condemnation.

Then why doesn't He deliver His Word in such a manner that we could all recognize it for what it is?

I don't know.

It wouldn't be evil if He gave us something solid to go off of, but He doesn't. If I ask you to guess my favorite color, and shoot you if you guess wrong, is that evil?

The Bible is solid as a rock to me, but I know that's not the case for everyone. I suppose it comes down to how you feel about the Bible. For me, the Bible is a solid thing to go on, and that's my guide for my beliefs and actions. I would say one must first hear and then believe that to be the inspired word of God in order to be saved.

Without that, you are absolutely right- we would have nothing solid to go on.

 

[Mister Emu]

For those outside of Christianity, I leave them to God... the only way revealed to reach salvation is a living faith in Jesus.

The Bible says that those who believe not are condemned, but it also says those who live without the law will die without the law(Rom 2:12)...

For those who do believe that God punishes and rewards based on what we think is true, can you please explain how this is anything less than pure and utter evil?

We are all sinners... we are all fundamentally ill... we need a doctor. Don't call the doctor, or don't take the medicine, not going to get better

Regardless, your proposition falls apart when considering the Eastern viewpoint of the afterlife... We all end up in God's love, and how we react to it determines whether we experience torment or bliss...

 

[CCAPalandiriel]

I think I agree with Mister Emu here.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Yes. As a Christian, I obviously believe that belief in God is mandatory for one to enter heaven, and people who do not believe in God cannot do so.


He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

That seems fairly self-explanatory to me.


God punishes and rewards based on whether or not one follows his Word. I find it perfectly reasonable that God would set down certain rules for his followers to follow. If you can't follow the statutes He's set down, then you can't be rewarded.

Or definitions of evil may differ, but I don't think it's purely and utterly evil for God to ask us to maintain our faith and follow his commands in order to enter eternal life with Him.

In other words, your God is plain evil. Christians usually don't admit to this, I'm surprised you do. This is my big problem with Christianity, it portrays God to be very very evil, that is why I cant accept Christianity - I just do not believe that God is in any way evil. I really don't know why you are going on about rules, etc. How can someone be held accountable for rules which they did not know or even believe were real? Are you saying that God would punish us based on something that is beyond our control? Because being wrong is beyond our control.

Honestly, what would you think of God if when you seen him after you died, he told you that you are going to be unimaginably punished for ever, just because you were not a Muslim?

People who have beliefs like yours truly do make me feel sick and deeply saddened. But I understand, to keep most religions ticking away there has to be a punishment in place for not following and a reward in place for following.

 

[Heneni]

In other words, your God is plain evil. Christians usually don't admit to this, I'm surprised you do. This is my big problem with Christianity, it portrays God to be very very evil, that is why I cant accept Christianity - I just do not believe that God is in any way evil. I really don't know why you are going on about rules, etc. How can someone be held accountable for rules which they did not know or even believe were real? Are you saying that God would punish us based on something that is beyond our control? Because being wrong is beyond our control.

Honestly, what would you think of God if when you seen him after you died, he told you that you are going to be unimaginably punished, just because you were not a Muslim?

People who have beliefs like yours truly do make me feel sick and deeply saddened.

Question: What do you use as a reference for what is good and what is evil?

 

[HoldemDB9]

Question: What do you use as a reference for what is good and what is evil?

Common sense I guess. Anyway, I dont think it matters, shouldn't you be asking this question when the line between good and evil becomes thin on the subject. The line is not thin at all here. If you don't agree that a God who would punish us for something which was not at all our fault is pure evil, there is no point in even talking about this.

 

[MoonWater]

Common sense I guess. Anyway, I dont think it matters, shouldn't you be asking this question when the line between good and evil becomes thin on the subject. The line is not thin at all here. If you don't agree that a God who would punish us for something which was not at all our fault is pure evil, there is no point in even talking about this.

So just because someone disagrees with you that automatically means there is no further point in debating with them? Kinda makes it difficult to DEBATE with a person there then doesn't it

 

[Smoke]

Yes. As a Christian, I obviously believe that belief in God is mandatory for one to enter heaven, and people who do not believe in God cannot do so.

Good. Infants and the profoundly retarded deserve to be damned.

 

[HoldemDB9]

So just because someone disagrees with you that automatically means there is no further point in debating with them?

No, obviously I don't think this or I would not be on this forum, but everyone has there limits. Would you actually waste your time debating with a flat earth believer?

I'm not going to waste my time debating about whether or not a God who punishes people for things beyond their control is evil. If someone really says that a God like this is not evil, then I cannot take them seriously.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, obviously I don't think this or I would not be on this forum, but everyone has there limits. Would you actually waste your time debating with a flat earth believer?

I'm not going to waste my time debating about whether or not a God who punishes people for things beyond their control is evil. If someone really says that a God like this is not evil, then I cannot take them seriously.

How about this: you don't know the rules, so you don't get judged by them.

Ever hear of the concept of purgatory? Those who simply are unaware go there as a second chance.

But disbelief is not what gets people into hell; arrogance is. Arrogance is a path to suffering, even in this life. You hear the rules, and arrogantly disobey them, what happens? You learn the hard way just why they were there in the first place.

Better to honestly look at why the rules are there in the first place, without being lazy and label such things as "evil" or "good" and then leave it at that.

After all, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.