Question About Jesus' Return

[Beta]

Again, the question stands unanswered.

Can there be other beings with superhuman powers?
And if so, HOW would you know the difference if one of them posed as Jesus?

Friend you are being difficult. But now you are a little more to the point Yes there are beings with superhuman powers - so what ? There is one greater than they.
There are other Parents but you would know the one who bore and raised you unless you were a B...(no offence).

 

[jarofthoughts]

Friend you are being difficult. But now you are a little more to the point Yes there are beings with superhuman powers - so what ? There is one greater than they.

That's all fine and dandy, but if one of these other beings presented themselves as Jesus, say, before Jesus makes his appearance, how would you know that it was lying?

There are other Parents but you would know the one who bore and raised you unless you were a B...(no offence).

I know my parents only because I grew up with them.
And before you make that claim, you did not grow up with Jesus. You might have grown up hearing and reading the STORIES about Jesus, but that is hardly the same. I would not know my mother from other mothers if all I had was stories about her.

If your analogy was correct then every adopted child would instantly know that they were adopted but this isn't the case now is it?

 

[Beta]

Jot , all earthly and human things aside one can know truth by the Spirit of God.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Jot , all earthly and human things aside one can know truth by the Spirit of God.

I notice that you still haven't answered my question.
I mean, "I know because god told me" is usually not considered much of an argument and should by rights only buy you some quality time at an asylum.

So, how, exactly, will we know Jesus from the imposters?

 

[Beta]

So, how, exactly, will we know Jesus from the imposters?

I have an idea friend -
why don't YOU tell me ?
I obviously do not have the answer you want to hear.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I have an idea friend -
why don't YOU tell me ?
I obviously do not have the answer you want to hear.

I wouldn't know. I don't believe in neither Jesus or God. I was just looking for some facts.
The thing is that claims like the one you made have been stated by the religious for a long time, but they never want to get into the specifics. So when you say we will know Jesus when he comes my first inclination is obviously to ask "how?".

Now, that may be because I consider myself to be somewhat science minded and in science, if you cannot explain how something happens, you really don't have much of a case. All you have is a bunch of unanswered questions that will require a lot of work. And that is assuming you even have a correlation, which by itself does not prove causation.

Heck, I don't know. I just wish more theists would ask more questions like these instead of taking stuff solely on faith. One would think that the answers to some of those "how" questions might come in handy at some point...

"God created the heavens and the earth".

Alright. How?

"Jesus cured the sick".

Alright. How?

"Jesus rose from the dead".

Alright. How?


See what I mean?

 

[Beta]

I wouldn't know. I don't believe in neither Jesus or God. I was just looking for some facts.
The thing is that claims like the one you made have been stated by the religious for a long time, but they never want to get into the specifics. So when you say we will know Jesus when he comes my first inclination is obviously to ask "how?".
Now, that may be because I consider myself to be somewhat science minded and in science, if you cannot explain how something happens, you really don't have much of a case. All you have is a bunch of unanswered questions that will require a lot of work. And that is assuming you even have a correlation, which by itself does not prove causation.
Heck, I don't know. I just wish more theists would ask more questions like these instead of taking stuff solely on faith. One would think that the answers to some of those "how" questions might come in handy at some point...
"God created the heavens and the earth".
Alright. How?
"Jesus cured the sick".
Alright. How?
"Jesus rose from the dead".
Alright. How?
See what I mean?

Now I see where you are coming from. You want answers to things you don't believe in. God and Jesus are the source to the answers and the most basic start is a belief in them Heb.11v6.That is just the way it has been set up.
But I am intrigued as to why you ask religious questions when you don't believe ???

 

[jarofthoughts]

Now I see where you are coming from. You want answers to things you don't believe in. God and Jesus are the source to the answers and the most basic start is a belief in them Heb.11v6.That is just the way it has been set up.
But I am intrigued as to why you ask religious questions when you don't believe ???

I guess because I am trying to understand the logic behind it.

To me a belief in a God is entirely illogical, and I freely admit, silly.

However various religions and theists make numerous claims that they profess with every ounce of apparent certainty, often much more so than claims supported by scientific evidence. And I've always wondered if there on some level existed, in the minds of these theists, any sort of logical basis for their certainty.

See, mostly when I ask questions like I've done in this tread I get the same kinds of answers that I've gotten this time around. Theists don't like to get into specifics because specifics make bare the logical fallacies in their claims. Or at least that is my impression.

Feel free to prove me wrong if you feel up to the task.

I love to be proven wrong (really!).

 

[Beta]

You are looking for evidence BEFORE Belief and with God this is the wrong way round. With Him FAITH must come first Heb.11v1. If you ever want to get to the bottom of what you are looking for you will have to do it God's way - or FAIL. God will not budge to satisfy human curiosity or try to boost human achievements by giving us powers and wisdom beyond our natural abilities. It is mankind who is in the wrong and needs to change his approach to life before we can do any more damage .
You will be proven wrong friend but not by me. The returning Christ will do that . :yes:

 

[Venatoris]

You are looking for evidence BEFORE Belief and with God this is the wrong way round. With Him FAITH must come first

Isn't that kinda like saying "You need to know where Waldo is before you can find him in the book"?

God will not budge to satisfy human curiosity or try to boost human achievements by giving us powers and wisdom beyond our natural abilities.

Our natural abilities are God given, aren't they? Just saying, it wouldn't have killed him to set the bar a little higher, would it?

You will be proven wrong friend but not by me. The returning Christ will do that . :yes:

Well, he certainly is taking his sweet ******* time doing it. I'm not gonna live forever you know.

 

[Beta]

Isn't that kinda like saying "You need to know where Waldo is before you can find him in the book"?
Our natural abilities are God given, aren't they? Just saying, it wouldn't have killed him to set the bar a little higher, would it?
Well, he certainly is taking his sweet ******* time doing it. I'm not gonna live forever you know.

Man must learn to trust in God , that what He says is right and best for us.
Yes our natural abilities are God-given - and just look at how man mis-uses them. We kill, rob, torture, rape and commit every evil under the sun. Is that not enough for you ? Perhaps you have been spared physical , mental and emotional suffering at the hands of others. It would of course not have killed God to give us more ability to do evil but we already have enough to wipe all life off this planet.
Time for man to do his worst is rapidly coming to a close now. Even if you are in your 80s as I am myself there is a good chance you will yet see things never seen before

 

[jarofthoughts]

Man must learn to trust in God , that what He says is right and best for us.

Wouldn't it be better to first establish that 1. There is a god, and 2. That this god is the Christian god.

The first premise has not been established at all and there is no evidence to back it up.

And even IF we accept the first premise, there are many many religions with conflicting views about who and what god is, and they cannot all be right. And they will all tell you that you "must learn to trust in (the) god(s), (and) that what he (or she/it/they) say is right and best for us".

 

[Beta]

Wouldn't it be better to first establish that 1. There is a god, and 2. That this god is the Christian god.

The first premise has not been established at all and there is no evidence to back it up.

And even IF we accept the first premise, there are many many religions with conflicting views about who and what god is, and they cannot all be right. And they will all tell you that you "must learn to trust in (the) god(s), (and) that what he (or she/it/they) say is right and best for us".

I agree that the human situation is very confusing - but it has been created by us , God does not confuse.(I could quote scriptures but seems you have trouble believing).What you are looking for is physical evidence and that is not God's way. Now he can of course do it but the result and consequences are not something we should ask for. The kind way is for him to get us to simply believe and trust him.
Since man created religious confusion it is also up to us to find the TRUE God and that us quite possible if we really want to - he will make it possible.

 

[Midnight Pete]

If Jesus were to return, would you believe it was genuine or a hoax? Would you accept that this person really was Jesus, or would you think him an imposter? Just curious.

Good question. There have been many impostors, many pale imitations, but there is only one true Shepherd. And his sheep know his voice.

Personally, I have never been deceived by any of these false Christs that announce themselves with such pomp and ceremony.

 

[Beta]

Of course, in this tangled mess of religions, that he could clear up with the wave of a hand by the way, we are forced to make choices on absolutely no basis at all. And yet, if we get it wrong, he will send us to hell to burn forever... Wow!
As a teacher I must say I find that technique rather...interesting.
magine taking my class into a room where hundreds of buckets are placed top down. Then I tell them that under all but one of these buckets there is a cake. Under all the others there is nothing. Now, I tell them to choose one of the buckets, only, they are not allowed to check underneath to see what's there.
The upside is that if they choose the right bucket they get to eat cake.
But the downside is that if they choose the wrong bucket I will fail all of them and throw them out of the school.
Does that sound fair to you?
Because that is basically the proposition your god (assuming for the sake of argument that he exists at all) has given us.

There will soon come a time when you will be given more evidence of God/Christ working in human affairs. But for the moment redemption and salvation are based on FAITH and TRUST in God. Sorry I can't change that but we must learn to go with the Will of God. About going to hell and burning for ever - how is it you believe that lie but not the good parts about salvation ? As a matter of fact there is no eternal torment in hell-fire for man.
Of course your example with the hidden cakes is not fair and God would not play it your way. But then you don't know God so you are excused.

 

[battar]

How would you know it was Jesus and not the representative of a different God or religion? It might be that the Jews/Muslims/Pastafarians etc were right all the time.

 

[jarofthoughts]

There will soon come a time when you will be given more evidence of God/Christ working in human affairs. But for the moment redemption and salvation are based on FAITH and TRUST in God. Sorry I can't change that but we must learn to go with the Will of God.

So you intend to provide no arguments and no evidence and yet you expect me to just take your word for it?
Well, then I suppose you must take my word for the fact that there is an invisible dragon living in your house that will devour your soul unless you sleep with your socks on for the rest of your life. I fully expect you to do as I say from now on based on your reasoning.

And if not, then explain to me how my concept of the sock-loving soul-eating dragon is any different than your concept of god.

About going to hell and burning for ever - how is it you believe that lie but not the good parts about salvation ? As a matter of fact there is no eternal torment in hell-fire for man.

Oh, I don't believe it. I was merely paraphrasing what I have been told by other theists earlier. So you say that there is no hell even for those who do not believe, is that it? Then what is my incentive for believing in the first place?

Of course your example with the hidden cakes is not fair and God would not play it your way. But then you don't know God so you are excused.

But that is exactly the kind of game your god (again assuming for the sake of argument that he exists) plays.
The buckets represent the hundreds of religions and denominations that exist in the world and apparently all of them wants us to think that they are the ones containing cake. But none of their gods provide any means at all for us to determine which one, or even if any of them contain any cake at all.

Tell me, how is choosing between all the religions claiming to have the "one truth" any different from my cake analogy?

 

[Beta]

Since you are having so much trouble believing in an invisible God how about concentrating on Jesus ?
Does he also get the thumbs down even though he was a man and lived on this earth ? Not enough evidence or records of his existence ?

 

[jarofthoughts]

Since you are having so much trouble believing in an invisible God how about concentrating on Jesus ?
Does he also get the thumbs down even though he was a man and lived on this earth ? Not enough evidence or records of his existence ?

As a historical figure he has perhaps as much going for him as, say, Alexander the Great, which makes it at least plausible that someone named Jesus was around at that time claiming to be a prophet. As for the miracles and the validity of the claim to be the son of god...not so much.

Also, you didn't answer the questions I gave you above. I would appreciate if you took the time instead of changing the subject.

 

[Beta]

As a historical figure he has perhaps as much going for him as, say, Alexander the Great, which makes it at least plausible that someone named Jesus was around at that time claiming to be a prophet. As for the miracles and the validity of the claim to be the son of god...not so much.

Also, you didn't answer the questions I gave you above. I would appreciate if you took the time instead of changing the subject.

Well, I could waste my time and answer you but why argue further about someone/something you don't believe in ?
God has certain demands that must be met if we are to get into a relationship with him Heb.11v6 being the most basic. No further detailed discussion would serve any purpose if faith in him is not our starting point. Afraid you will just have to wait until more evidence is available to you. :yes: