Question for Atheists...

[Audie]

Understand? Sorry, I just can't believe your claims without any intelligent reason.

It's enough to just say " I just can't believe".
The rest is more falsehoods.

 

[nPeace]

My post touched on Ezekiel and Exodus.

So no objection to the idea that God has a literal face, hand and back?

God has eyes too, and a heart, a nose, mouth... and fingers too.
Here, is what Jesus said,  . .if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons. . . (Luke 11:20)
So Jesus took a finger of God, to use in expelling the demons.
Did Jesus replace God's finger after he was done with it?
He must have... He seem to have borrowed it several times.

Jokes aside... (Matthew 12:28) . . .But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons. . .
Imagine that you are invisible to humans, and you are made up of an unknown form of 'energy'.
However, you want to communicate with humans, what language or speech would you use? Would it not be what humans can relate to, and understand?

This is how the spirit beings communicate with humans - by using descriptions humans understand and relate to.
This is how the Bible is written.
Jesus likened God's holy spirit to the finger of God, because it is what God uses to accomplish his will... aside from the angelic messengers.

God has the ability to 'see' everywhere and everything, so that ability is compared to eyes.
The expression, my rage will come up into my nose, is familiar to the human that knows of the bull.
God used the expression, my back, because the human understands that if a person is not facing you, as they past, you will see their back.
He used the expression, 'my face', or 'face to face', since humans look for that in conversation.
What Moses got to see, was God's glory.

(Exodus 33:18-23) 18 Then he said: “Please show me your glory.” 19 But he said: “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will declare before you the name of Jehovah; and I will favor the one whom I favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I show mercy.” 20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” 21 Jehovah said further: “Here is a place near me. Station yourself on the rock. 22 When my glory is passing by, I will place you in a crevice of the rock, and I will shield you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 After that I will take my hand away, and you will see my back. But my face may not be seen.”

The same applies to visions. Persons are shown representation in a form they can relate to, but they are not the actual realities.

 

[nPeace]

Well find some evidence then get back to us.

Actually the last persons I gave evidence to, spent a lot of time denying it was evidence even though they had to admit with the same breath, that it was evidence... and one of those persons was a professed Christian.
As an atheist, you will only do what atheists do best - deny, even though you know you are wrong.

I'm not an exvert in whale evolution. All I can do is cite exverts who are, but that reporting is available to you as much as me. the real question is why you are confused about this area of evolution. Is there something about whales that is a problem for the theory of evolution? Cite experts that acknowledge this porblem (not creationists).

Quote anything you like. Just don't give me a page. Pick out two paragraphs you agree with. Just be willing to support your belief.
If you can't, then you are just gullible.

Why would I? you are the one bringing it up. And you even mention what the deal is. It's not as if you are an exvert. Your posts reveal you have little knowlegde of evolution in general, so why would we care about any of your confusion? Your confusion is your problem, not ours, and not for science.

That's a lot of fluff. You would say the same thing to a scientist standing in front of you... and do some back peddling after.
James Tour, Stephen Myers, etc. They have little knowledge of evolution too. Why? Because they challenge your belief, which you just swallow without even understanding what the belief is based on.

I can tell you that you beliefs all hinge on hypotheses - ideas.
I know you don't know much about evolution. So if I have little knowledge, you have very little.

 

[F1fan]

Actually the last persons I gave evidence to, spent a lot of time denying it was evidence even though they had to admit with the same breath, that it was evidence... and one of those persons was a professed Christian.

Trying to present valid evidence for religious belief is a losing task. And notice, you offer no evidence at all, just make excuses.

As an atheist, you will only do what atheists do best - deny, even though you know you are wrong.

My, you must be upset as this is passive aggressive. Isn't this contrary to what Christians are supposed to be, that being honest and decent folk?

Quote anything you like. Just don't give me a page. Pick out two paragraphs you agree with. Just be willing to support your belief.
If you can't, then you are just gullible.

You don't seem willing to learn about science.

That's a lot of fluff.

Your unwillingness to learn science is fluff?

You would say the same thing to a scientist standing in front of you... and do some back peddling after.

My background is in the sciences, and what you say here is more likley what you would do. I accept experts in science, and I accept results in science, what dispute would I have with scientists? You're the one who is biased against science. Do you feel shame about that?

James Tour, Stephen Myers, etc. They have little knowledge of evolution too. Why? Because they challenge your belief, which you just swallow without even understanding what the belief is based on.

I have no clue who they are, and they haven't communicated anything to me about anything I believe. So another inaccurate comment by you that isn't what a proper Christian would say?

I can tell you that you beliefs all hinge on hypotheses - ideas.

Really, which ones, exactly?

I know you don't know much about evolution. So if I have little knowledge, you have very little.

Oh the irony and projection.

Notice you offered no direct rebuttal to anything I wrote to you?

 

[nPeace]

Notice you offered no direct rebuttal to anything I wrote to you?

It only appears that way when you aren't listening.

 

[nPeace]

My, you must be upset as this is passive aggressive. Isn't this contrary to what Christians are supposed to be, that being honest and decent folk?

(John 8:25) . . .So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Christians don't come to sound conclusoons about the religious sects they are exposed to. They learn from an early age that irrational religious concepts are true and they integrate them into the overall thinking as they mature. They are conditionaed to believe, and if they are emotionally committed they will struggle to examine these ideas objectively. Most in my family don't know that I am an atheiost because atheists in our society are highly prejudiced against. they don't understand why they prejudice against atheists, they just do. Most theists are like little robots who can't think for themselves. Look at @Sgt. Pepper as an example of a former Christian who broke out of the learned framework and learned to think for herself. She is free now.

Yes, I am free of the Christian indoctrination that I have been subjected to throughout my life. In fact, renouncing my Christian faith and belief in God was one of the best decisions that I've ever made for my mental health and emotional well-being. It's only second to my decision to stand up to and confront my abusive brother and mother when I was eighteen years old. I can't express how much better my life has become and how much emotional healing I've had since renouncing my Christian faith and belief in God. I don't regret my decision to renounce my belief in God and leave Christianity, but I do wish that I had found the strength to do so years ago rather than continuing to have false hope in the Christian God. I'll admit that I feel like I wasted the majority of my life believing in this God, and I feel quite foolish for believing in him for so long. It was like I was imprisoned, only my cell door was always open and I never realized I could escape whenever I wanted to. Christianity was a prison for me, but now I'm free from it. Being a Christian was an absolute nightmare for me, and I'm determined to never be a Christian again. And, to be quite honest, the more I interact with Christians online, the more determined I am to stay away from Christianity. I will say that certain Christians (who are rude and obnoxious) are very good at convincing people to totally reject Christianity.

Trying to present valid evidence for religious belief is a losing task. And notice, you offer no evidence at all, just make excuses.

My, you must be upset as this is passive aggressive. Isn't this contrary to what Christians are supposed to be, that being honest and decent folk?

You don't seem willing to learn about science.

Your unwillingness to learn science is fluff?

My background is in the sciences, and what you say here is more likley what you would do. I accept experts in science, and I accept results in science, what dispute would I have with scientists? You're the one who is biased against science. Do you feel shame about that?

I have no clue who they are, and they haven't communicated anything to me about anything I believe. So another inaccurate comment by you that isn't what a proper Christian would say?

Really, which ones, exactly?

Oh the irony and projection.

Notice you offered no direct rebuttal to anything I wrote to you?

Winner frubal.

 

[Aupmanyav]

(John 8:25) . . .So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all?

Lot of gibberish there. "I have come from God". If someone were to say that to me, I would ask for evidence. Did Jesus give any evidence or just talk?

 

[Audie]

Actually the last persons I gave evidence to, spent a lot of time denying it was evidence even though they had to admit with the same breath, that it was evidence... and one of those persons was a professed Christian.
As an atheist, you will only do what atheists do best - deny, even though you know you are wrong.


Quote anything you like. Just don't give me a page. Pick out two paragraphs you agree with. Just be willing to support your belief.
If you can't, then you are just gullible.


That's a lot of fluff. You would say the same thing to a scientist standing in front of you... and do some back peddling after.
James Tour, Stephen Myers, etc. They have little knowledge of evolution too. Why? Because they challenge your belief, which you just swallow without even understanding what the belief is based on.

I can tell you that you beliefs all hinge on hypotheses - ideas.
I know you don't know much about evolution. So if I have little knowledge, you have very little.

So all atheists are your figuring, without
intellectual integrity.

 

[Audie]

It only appears that way when you aren't listening.

Lame

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God has eyes too, and a heart, a nose, mouth... and fingers too.
Here, is what Jesus said,  . .if it is by means of God’s finger that I expel the demons. . . (Luke 11:20)
So Jesus took a finger of God, to use in expelling the demons.
Did Jesus replace God's finger after he was done with it?
He must have... He seem to have borrowed it several times.

Jokes aside... (Matthew 12:28) . . .But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons. . .
Imagine that you are invisible to humans, and you are made up of an unknown form of 'energy'.
However, you want to communicate with humans, what language or speech would you use? Would it not be what humans can relate to, and understand?

This is how the spirit beings communicate with humans - by using descriptions humans understand and relate to.
This is how the Bible is written.
Jesus likened God's holy spirit to the finger of God, because it is what God uses to accomplish his will... aside from the angelic messengers.

God has the ability to 'see' everywhere and everything, so that ability is compared to eyes.
The expression, my rage will come up into my nose, is familiar to the human that knows of the bull.
God used the expression, my back, because the human understands that if a person is not facing you, as they past, you will see their back.
He used the expression, 'my face', or 'face to face', since humans look for that in conversation.
What Moses got to see, was God's glory.

(Exodus 33:18-23) 18 Then he said: “Please show me your glory.” 19 But he said: “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will declare before you the name of Jehovah; and I will favor the one whom I favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I show mercy.” 20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” 21 Jehovah said further: “Here is a place near me. Station yourself on the rock. 22 When my glory is passing by, I will place you in a crevice of the rock, and I will shield you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 After that I will take my hand away, and you will see my back. But my face may not be seen.”

The same applies to visions. Persons are shown representation in a form they can relate to, but they are not the actual realities.

That's a very creative, well-thought-out rationalization that, AFAIK, is not based on anything actually in the Bible.

 

[nPeace]

Christians are a huge set of categories, from liberals who tend to dismiss many of the supernatural bits, to moderates and conservatives who will accept most of the concepts as true, to extremists who reject science and the equality of races. The KKK is a Christian organization, and quite nasty to my moral judgment. So Christians are largely following whatever they were influenced to believe, and some might have the thinking skill to reject it.

Evidently Christian means whatever the world decides.
I explained why that's not true. You don't want to accept it... go ahead with what you want to believe.

Christians don't come to sound conclusoons about the religious sects they are exposed to. They learn from an early age that irrational religious concepts are true and they integrate them into the overall thinking as they mature. They are conditionaed to believe, and if they are emotionally committed they will struggle to examine these ideas objectively. Most in my family don't know that I am an atheiost because atheists in our society are highly prejudiced against. they don't understand why they prejudice against atheists, they just do. Most theists are like little robots who can't think for themselves. Look at @Sgt. Pepper as an example of a former Christian who broke out of the learned framework and learned to think for herself. She is free now.

I thought you learned something, but that was foolish of me, knowing what I came to realize from our conversation.
You start off again with the same irrational biased thinking... "Christians don't come to sound conclusoons... They learn from an early age..."
There are Christians today... many of them, who were atheist for most their life. So "Christians don't come to sound conclusoons... They learn from an early age..." is not a sensible statement to make.
It's not well thought out, and demonstrated irrationality.

You say "Most theists are like little robots who can't think for themselves.", but you don't know that to be true, you just say things.
Some theists are like robots, and we see that in cases like this.

Most do think for themselves, and that's why religion is so divided, because persons make a decision to do things their way.
If they didn't think for themselves, all Muslims, for example, would be following ISIS, or some other group, but they wouldn't be divide, because they can't think for themselves.

Then there are those who carry off the moneys from people who are misled by their wn desire to do things their way.
Oh yes. They know what they are doing. They are thinking for themselves.

False. My conclusions about the Christianity I was exposed to came from observation and being honest with myself. I rejected the influence and thought for myself. So I was free to examine the claims in Christianity while the others in my family just bought in to it all. All my nine Catholic cousins accepted Catholicism and all the obligations, what a coincidence, eh? Why didn't some become Muslim if it is all thought out?

If you don't know what a Christian is, to start with, you will obviously come to the wrong conclusion.
It's like the lady that said, she was robbed by two officers at gunpoint.
When asked to describe her attackers, she said, they were handsome, well groomed, wore nice jeans and denim jackets.... and they said they were cops.
You do exactly the same. "Oh, they were well dressed in their nice Sunday clothes, and they go into their religious building... sometime hardly... and they say they are Christians.
Then he names Catholic. Oh dear. Compare their history with the apostles.

I watched my Christian family (Baptists and Catholics) claim great things about Christianity and belief in Jesus, but they acted like cruel and shallow people, and they did not get along. I could see something was wrong with this belief. Only my grandmother showed me a truth about Christianity, and that was her and the women in her church serving food to the local hungry families. I helped in their food kitchen, and the women NEVER mentioned religion to the people they served. They fed people twice a week, which is all they could afford. They'd have about 200 people. I was stunned that our society had hungry people since our family was well off. The thing was I understood the duty to others without reading Bible stories. And if this was the duty of Christians, where are all the other Christians? Why aren't they out doing service to the needy at a higher level? I know there are many such Christians, Muslims, Hindus, atheists who commit to helping otehrs, but Christians have this service as a duty AS Christian.

People with kind hearts exist in every society... even in the most corrupt and violent groups. You don't know that?

You are calling it opinion as a tactic to attack my conclusions, which are sound and follow the rules of logic. You as a religious person can't show any of us how your religious beliefs re true, or even plausible. There is no way for a critical thinker to come to a sound conclusion that any of your religious are true, or even likely true. One of the rules in logic, as a process, is to NOT assume conclusions are true. You begin by being neutral, and that means not assuming any idea is true or false. The thing is if an idea can't be shown to be true, or at least likely true, it is rejected. I'll bet you reject Hindu claims about their gods. Yes? That is you following the same rule. I just follow the rule in regards to your version of God, or a Muslim's version of God, or anyone elses version of God.

I truly and honestly wish you demonstrated reasonableness.
Then you would realize that what you call a tactic, is not any different to what you are doing, just that we have two different views, but you only see your view as righ. Yyou can't see how wrong your thinking is, unless you are willing to look outside that box you closed you mind inside.
When you are ready to listen, we can talk, but as it stands, you are blindsided - closed minded.

When your statements mesh with reality, it would indicate to me that there is hope of a reasonable conversation.
Think about what you are saying... outside that box.
Review it, and tell me where I am wrong... don't just talk on... saying things that are not true.

 

[nPeace]

Lot of gibberish there. "I have come from God". If someone were to say that to me, I would ask for evidence.

You would be correct in doing so. Did Jesus just say that? Do you know Jesus did not say that to most of his audience, and that he strongly urged his followers not to broadcast it?

Did Jesus give any evidence or just talk?

How much do you know about Jesus? Have you actually read the Gospels... ever?
Your question indicates that you haven't, and don't really know much concerning Jesus.
To answer your question...
(Matthew 11:2-6) 2 But John, having heard in jail about the works of the Christ, sent his disciples 3 to ask him: “Are you the Coming One, or are we to expect a different one?” 4 In reply Jesus said to them: “Go and report to John what you are hearing and seeing: 5 The blind are now seeing and the lame are walking, the lepers are being cleansed and the deaf are hearing, the dead are being raised up and the poor are being told the good news. 6 Happy is the one who finds no cause for stumbling in me.”

(John 5:36) 36 But I have the witness greater than that of John, for the very works that my Father assigned me to accomplish, these works that I am doing, bear witness that the Father sent me.

(John 10:25) 25 Jesus answered them: “I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in my Father’s name, these bear witness about me.

the crowds were amazed and said: “Never has anything like this been seen in Israel. . . Matthew 9:33
. . .all the crowds were astounded and began to say: “May this not perhaps be the Son of David?” Matthew 12:23​

There's also Matthew 11:20-24; Matthew 13:53-14:2; Mark 6:1-3; Luke 10:13, 14; Luke 19:36, 37;
Yes. Jesus did give evidence to back his words, but what good is evidence to those who don't really want it, but only claim they do - Deniers. Matthew 12:24

 

[nPeace]

So all atheists are your figuring, without
intellectual integrity.

Two different things.
Denying something does not mean that automatically you can't be honest at work, honestly pay your bills, love your cat, your dog, your wife / husband, your children; the old lady next door... etc.

 

[nPeace]

Lame

How does one respond to... not even a one liner, but one word... like this. Lamer?
Maybe RF should have a rule like one forum I came across. No one liners. They are useless, and therefore contributes nothing.

 

[Audie]

How does one respond to... not even a one liner, but one word... like this. Lamer?
Maybe RF should have a rule like one forum I came across. No one liners. They are useless, and therefore contributes nothing.

You want it spoon fed to you?

 

[nPeace]

That's a very creative, well-thought-out rationalization that, AFAIK, is not based on anything actually in the Bible.

It is evident you don't know much about the Bible, so it's expected that's as far as you know.
Actually, the Bible does support what I said.
(John 3:12) If I have told you earthly things and you still do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
How would the fleshly man understand that, anyway.
(1 Corinthians 2:14) But a physical man does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them, because they are examined spiritually.

 

[nPeace]

You want it spoon fed to you?

Explanation for why it's lame? Please do.

 

[Audie]

Two different things.
Denying something does not mean that automatically you can't be honest at work, honestly pay your bills, love your cat, your dog, your wife / husband, your children; the old lady next door... etc.

Semi integrity.


Creationists may well on the average
be trustworthy and not embezzle, or steal
sheep.

It is though demonstrably impossible to
be an informed creationist who is intellectually
honest.

Your claim against atheists cannot be demonstrated
to anything but your chosen opinion.

 

[Audie]

Explanation for why it's lame? Please do.

IOW, "Yes"

If you cannot figure out for yourself that
people know you are just making things up, being told
won't likely do much.