Question to Atheists: Living for here and now or living for a place with God in the next.

[Link]

Yup, that's me 100% certain.

And more than temporary, life it terminal

Is this due to problem of suffering/evil?

 

[QuestioningMind]

I would give it a chance is what I'm saying. Don't think there is smoke without fire approach at least give it a chance.

Like I said, I could PRETEND... but pretending would never convince me it's true. If you can talk yourself into believing anything that you pretend to believe for long enough, then you're really not interested in truth, are you? All you really seem to care about is convincing yourself that you have answers, whether the answers are valid or not. You pretended to believe in Islam until you eventually convinced yourself it is actually true, regardless of whether or not it really is.

That's fine I guess if all you want to do is make yourself feel good by pretending you have answers, but it's not a path to any kind of actual truth. Personally truth is more important to me than simply feeling good about myself.

 

[Link]

Like I said, I could PRETEND... but pretending would never convince me it's true. If you can talk yourself into believing anything that you pretend to believe for long enough, then you're really not interested in truth, are you? All you really seem to care about is convincing yourself that you have answers, whether the answers are valid or not. You pretended to believe in Islam until you eventually convinced yourself it is actually true, regardless of whether or not it really is.

That's fine I guess if all you want to do is make yourself feel good by pretending you have answers, but it's not a path to any kind of actual truth. Personally truth is more important to me than simply feeling good about myself.

No one is saying to pretend. Why wouldn't magical pixies be able to prove themselves?

 

[viole]

You bring a good point. The ranks with God and drawing close to him is what is the higher ranks are about.

But you bring a good point. A person can say, I don't know God exists, but I'll do my best to be as good person as possible and do my best to be honest with myself about proof of God if he exists.

Since they believe they are honest, they maybe believe God will reward them IF he exists.

And they can put all bets for next world.

I'm not sure if this really happens in practical terms. But you do bring a good point.

A person who does good hoping for a reward is not good.

ciao

- viole

 

[QuestioningMind]

As I did when I left Islam

But if the only reason you found Islam is because you pretended it was true for long enough, how do you know you're still not considering immoral things to be moral?

 

[Link]

A person who does good hoping for a reward is not good.

ciao

- viole

Why is that? You can have both intentions, to help the person, and also appreciate the reward you gain for yourself out of that. It is it wrong to love oneself and hope to be rewarded?

 

[ChristineM]

Is this due to problem of suffering/evil?

Reading the bible, really reading it. The obvious lack of evidence. Life. Science... And it's not a problem.

 

[Nimos]

You guys have no idea how much I searched. At the end, it was intercession of Mohammad (s) that showed me what I was really going through inside (with my madness), and only after that, I was able to heal and perceive things with mental clarity. And only after that, was I able to do well in life.

I think to few people in general does this. Not so much searching God, because I think its fundamentally about existences and meaning more than anything else. A lot of people don't bother or care to spend the time on things like this, they have to watch the next show in TV, then there is the job and then you have all the other things you have to do. I think most people identify as something, whether that is a religion or as a non believer much on auto pilot without having no real understanding or having examined anything about the topic. At least here on RF, you get the impression that people have different views, and bothered to spend the time discussing the matters.

For instance, my mother is an atheist, but I don't think she have given it much thought, she just find the whole God thing silly. My dad is a bit more open to the idea I think, but ultimately he believes that religious people don't really believe the stories in the bible, Quran etc. as being true. And its not because they are unintelligent or anything, it just doesn't interest them, so their view on these things are based on extremely weak assumptions and uncareful thinking.

Anyways, I became an atheist for 2 weeks or a bit less or bit more, forgotten right now.

But I realized something with certainty at that point. Praise/morality would also be an illusion if naturalism was true and there is no supernatural world and we evolved from evolution.

So do you think that atheists can be moral? And if that is the case, how is that possible? is it because God wills it, because isn't it morally wrong in a sense to doubt God?

You mention the issue with the "problem of evil", I personally don't think there is any problem with evil at all, because it doesn't exist besides as a term we use to categorize things we find bad or wrong. Now I believe that morality is subjective and that there is no such thing as objective morality out there for which we will be held accountable or measured against. But that there is a huge benefit in moral behavior. So in my worldview, God in regards to morality is not needed at all, and believe that it can be explained through natural means much better than a God could ever do.

With God you hit a wall fairly fast I think, why does God not like evil to begin with and why not just get rid of it, if its a huge issue for him? From a human perspective this doesn't really answer why there is evil to begin with or why we ought to find it wrong, except God don't like it. To me, that is not really an answer, as much as simply accepting something without an explanation for it.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Really? News to u?

Not so much. U?

 

[viole]

Why is that? You can have both intentions, to help the person, and also appreciate the reward you gain for yourself out of that. It is it wrong to love oneself and hope to be rewarded?

I state that iif one makes good, having no hope for no reward, than she is better than the one who does.

anyway, this is under the assumption that God rewards people doing good. It is entirely possible that He rewards who does evil.

ciao

- viole

 

[QuestioningMind]

No one is saying to pretend. Why wouldn't magical pixies be able to prove themselves?

Of course you are. I can't sincerely search for something I don't have reason to believe exists unless I pretend that it actually does exist. According to you if you pretended like magical pixies really existed and could prove themselves you'd eventually convince yourself that they have provided proof, whether they actually exist or are just figments of your imagination.

 

[Link]

But if the only reason you found Islam

This is not the reason. Why would I pretend Islam is true, when I can do also sorts of fun things in my society with no guilt, if untrue and convince myself of soothsaying type religion (Wiccan for example) and still benefit from a Creator belief system (feel good that I don't perish when I die)? It's only because I know the higher sustenance from God is greater and because I know Islam is truth, I don't go to that.

Also, you don't pay attention. I hated the concept of hell hence why I ran away from Islam in the first place.

 

[firedragon]

Not so much. U?

).

 

[Link]

I state that iif one makes good, having no hope for no reward, than she is better than the one who does.

anyway, this is under the assumption that God rewards people doing good. It is entirely possible that He rewards who does evil.

ciao

- viole

Why is that the case, is it not good to want to draw close to God out of love of his proximity? Why is self-love bad?

You can do it out both intentions, and they compliment one another, self-love and love of others.

 

[Link]

Of course you are. I can't sincerely search for something I don't have reason to believe exists unless I pretend that it actually does exist. According to you if you pretended like magical pixies really existed and could prove themselves you'd eventually convince yourself that they have provided proof, whether they actually exist or are just figments of your imagination.

No one wants anyone pretending to believe. It's about perception and noticing what we perceive. Jinn and Angels exist. Fully perceiving them is hard, but we can have some sort of sense of them, if they exist. They aren't part of the world with us for no reason.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My question to atheists or people who doubt God, have you tried reaching out to Mohammad (s) and his family (a) and asking God to intercede on your path through them appearing as light?

About as hard as you likely tried to get in touch with Odin, or have tried to find bigfoot, or whatever.

Or do you find this impossible to sincerely do as long as you doubt God? If so, please explain why

I have no valid reason to do so. With the knowledge I have now, I consider such an exercise as a waste of time and energy.

I feel as much compelled to "look into" the islamic god as I feel compelled to look into Odin and Thor, bigfoot, scientology, poltergeists, alien abduction, etc

It's kind of like trying to find an agency that will book me a vacation to Middle Earth or Neverland (and I don't mean michael jackson's ranch, but rather the magical world of Peter Pan)

 

[viole]

Why is that the case, is it not God to want to draw close to God out of love of his proximity? Why is self-love bad?

You can do it out both intentions, and they compliment one another, self-love and love of others.

It is not bad. Also because people who do good, without any hope for a reward, do that to feel happy. They claim to be happy, ergo they also love themselves, even without the slightest hope of a reward. So, ceteris paribus, they are better than people expecting a payoff.

by the way, God could reward who does evil, for what we know. So, according to Pascal, we should do evil, too. Right?

ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

It is not bad. Also because people who do good, without any hope for a reward, do that to feel happy. They claim be happy, ergo they also love themselves, even without the slightest hope of a reward. So, ceteris paribus, they are better than people expecting a payoff.

by the way, God could reward who does evil, for what we know. So, according to Pascal, we should do evil, too. Right?

ciao

- viole

Why would temporary happiness be better then gains of forever bliss? Why wanting temporary feel good be better then wanting forever feel good?

 

[viole]

Why would temporary happiness be better then gains of forever bliss?

Because not everybody loves what they think to be utter delusions. And by the way, logically thinking, it could be that evil is rewarded, instead. How do you know?

ciao

- viole

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If not Islam, I would probably incline to soothsaying religion and seek help from magical pixies (and probably would end up believing in them - they are called Jinn in Quran).

Scammers and con-men thrive on naive people like you.