Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this post. I have been writing it in a Word document off and on and I finally finished it and found time to post it.
This maybe the longest post I have ever seen. I don't even know how you got all this to fit in a single post. Regardless; yes you need to show the overwhelmingly mainstream understanding of the bible for the past 2000 years is incorrect. You can't just claim Newton got calculus wrong, you need to show his errors.
Believe me, it was not easy getting all that into one post!I had to pare it down several times before it was under the maximum length. Even though I eliminated a lot of this post, it was still too long for one post, so I am going to divide it into two posts.
How do you think I can show that the overwhelmingly mainstream understanding of the bible for the past 2000 years is incorrect in one post? The best I can do is whack away at it, one idea at a time.
No, the God you describe is less capable than the one I believe in. What you described is definitely not the God of the bible. My God can and did walk the earth as both a spirit and in the flesh.
It has nothing to do with capability. Just because God is “capable” of doing something does not mean God has to do it. That is illogical.
But in a certain sense, God did walk the earth, since Jesus was a Manifestation of God, a perfect mirror image of God, just not the
Essence of God in the flesh.
I obviously do not find the writing of the Baha'i authoritative so posting them isn't very persuasive. I do believe in the bible so you have got to provide some reason to think the bible got it wrong.
Unfortunately, I do not know the Bible well enough to find the best verses that would say what I am trying to say. I only know a few verses I have collected. Let’s just take this one verse, which says exactly what I want to say, in all the translations below:
John 1:18
CEB No one has ever seen God. God the only Son, who is at the Father’s side, has made God known.
NASB No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NCV No one has ever seen God. But God the only Son is very close to the Father, and he has shown us what God is like.
NKJV No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NLV The much-loved Son is beside the Father. No man has ever seen God. But Christ has made God known to us.
RSV No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
WE No one has ever seen God. But his only Son is very near to his Father's heart. He has told us plainly about God.
Jesus did all of the following: Made God known, explained God, showed us what God is like, declared God, made God known to us, told us plainly about God.
There are some other translations that say Jesus is God, but they make no sense:
NET No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
NIV No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
NLT No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.
We have seen Jesus so Jesus cannot be God.
How can God be in fellowship with Himself?
How can God be in a relationship with Himself?
How can God be near and dear to His own heart?
What, that verse justifies my own world view not yours? It specifically states that God became flesh which is what I have been saying.
No, that verse does not say that the Fullness of God became flesh. It says that God was manifested in the flesh. The question we have to ask is: what was manifested?
The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..
Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings
There is a big difference between the Baha'i and Christians. Both Christians and the Baha'i hold the bible to be authoritative but Christians do not hold the writings of the Baha'i to be authoritative. So what does the bible say?
Mark 2:7
"Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"
Only God can forgive sins, Jesus forgave sins, Jesus is God.
Mark 2:6-10 But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
Jesus did not say what is in Mark 2:7. The scribes said that. Then Jesus said in Mark 2:10 “But that ye may know that
the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,).” So Jesus was saying that He, the Son of man, had the power to forgive sins. That concurs exactly with what Baha’u’llah wrote. In the passage below Baha’u’llah is saying that
God’s chosen ones (Manifestations of God) have the power to forgive sins. I post this again only because it is from the Bible and it is necessary for me to make my point.
“It is also recorded in the Gospel according to St. Luke, that on a certain day Jesus passed by a Jew who was sick of the palsy, and lay upon a couch. When the Jew saw Him, he recognized Him, and cried out for His help. Jesus said unto him: “Arise from thy bed; thy sins are forgiven thee.” Certain of the Jews, standing by, protested saying: “Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” And immediately He perceived their thoughts, Jesus answering said unto them: “Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, arise, and take up thy bed, and walk; or to say, thy sins are forgiven thee? that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power on earth to forgive sins.”7 This is the real sovereignty, and such is the power of God’s chosen Ones!” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 133-134
Why do you post Baha'i beliefs as a Christian does not accept them. However we both accept the bible, so that is what you should post from. Jesus can't always have existed and yet be born. Jesus was a divine spirit clothed in flesh.
Briefly, Jesus has a Soul and a Body. The Soul of Jesus can have always existed because it was in the spiritual world, which has always existed, since it is without beginning or end. But we know that the Body of Jesus was born of Mary so it cannot have always existed.
I do not know what you mean when you say that Jesus was a divine spirit clothed in flesh.
Even miracles performed by men are done so through the power of God. Jesus is the only being other than the father who performed miracles by their own authority. Even angels must depend on God to perform miracles.
That is absolutely true. Jesus was able to perform miracles because He had the Power of God. Baha’u’llah also performed miracles because He had the Power of God. Angels can perform miracles because they have the Power of God.
(Continued on next post...)
