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Questions that believers cannot answer

U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
I do not believe that God created evil, although I believe that God created a world that is a storehouse of suffering and as such God is responsible since He created this world for us to live in, knowing that there would be suffering.
I think the appropriate question is: Why do some people have to personally suffer so much more than other people, if God is just and fair?
Again I think the appropriate question is: Do people who haven't suffered not get eternal life?
There is nobody who has not suffered at all, but some people suffer much more than other people
I do not think there is a direct correlation between attaining eternal life and suffering. I do not believe it is 'necessary' to suffer in order to attain eternal life.
Click to expand...

At 2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19 I find it informs us that Satan is the One behind suffering.
Sinner Satan challenged the man Job and by way of extension challenges all of us - Job 2:4-5
Touch our ' flesh....' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Christians suffer on top of physical suffering because they choose to follow Jesus and are hated - Matthew 10:22.
Because ALL people sin, ALL people die. DEATH is the total price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23,7.
As with Adam there is No post-mortem penalty in death, No double jeopardy in death as false religion teaches.

Right, there is No direct correlation between attaining eternal life and suffering.
Not suffering as in being sick, but the suffering (on top of being sick) for following Jesus - Mark 13:13
Following Jesus is 'suffering by choice' as we will see the nations turn more and more on his followers.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
lewisnotmiller said:
None of which deals with the fact that there are literally brain damaged babies being born with no hope of rehabilitation or the capacity to learn. Are they mere sacrifices to teach others? Why do we need a drug dependant baby born every 25 mins in the US alone?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming God for this or suggesting he 'should' fix it. I'm suggesting that this is evidence that not all pain is beneficial to growth.................
Click to expand...

However, because of the Resurrection Hope then: God will fix it - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
This is a reason why we are all invited to pray to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20
Notice: Come and bring HEALING to earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
Healing to the point that No one will say, " I am sick.... " - Isaiah 33:24
Healing as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Jesus to come and undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us for both the living and the dead.
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
URAVIP2ME said:
At 2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 John 5:19 I find it informs us that Satan is the One behind suffering.
Sinner Satan challenged the man Job and by way of extension challenges all of us - Job 2:4-5
Touch our ' flesh....' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
Christians suffer on top of physical suffering because they choose to follow Jesus and are hated - Matthew 10:22.
Because ALL people sin, ALL people die. DEATH is the total price tag that sin pays - Romans 6:23,7.
As with Adam there is No post-mortem penalty in death, No double jeopardy in death as false religion teaches.

Right, there is No direct correlation between attaining eternal life and suffering.
Not suffering as in being sick, but the suffering (on top of being sick) for following Jesus - Mark 13:13
Following Jesus is 'suffering by choice' as we will see the nations turn more and more on his followers.
Click to expand...

Satan is a term used for "enemy" and not isolated to a single being, person, or entity. Satan is an enemy, whether an enemy to evil or an enemy to good. As with Job, an enemy tested him and his faith. The same if often true for us. We are tested by our enemies. With that said, no one is exempt from being tested by an enemy. We are tested daily, our resolve, our hopes, our dreams, our standing as citizens, our friendships, marriages, family life, our jobs, churches, places of recreation, etc. no one is exempt from being tested by an enemy.

Jesus and those who follow him are no more or less tested than anyone else, but Jesus did understand that his followers would be - tested. He understood, as he was being taken away to be crucified that his disciples would likely face similar fates, given the common practices of that era and culture. I like the way the resurrection of the dead was illustrated in the new- testament, using seeds as a way to illustrate the point. From corruption or from our temporal finite flesh bodies comes the resurrection into new spiritual and incorruptible bodies as new creations. Here we are dying in the flesh, but after it is taught that we become spiritual bodies, even as Jesus became a spiritual body, the first fruits of many to come.

Eternal life and suffering - we suffer hardship in life. We all do. Our lamentations are not unknown to anyone. What i mean is, we all lament over certain things in life. It is a product of heart, mind, soul, or rather our conscience. That's how i will define a conscience. Heart, mind, and soul. Anyway, it is true that many hate us. It isn't unexpected, but the hate is typically unwanted, if not unwarranted.

I feel your concern -
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Trailblazer said:
Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.:rolleyes:

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case. :)
Click to expand...
So do you believe what the bahai religion teaches on this? I have given much thought to this question. And one thing is above all. God is God and we are not but there are so many things involved with this question. So first I'd like to know if you really think or believe there is a fiery hell awaiting for the unsaved? Some would be surprised at the answer. That's before I even talk to you about what the Bible really says about why we suffer
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Sgt. Pepper said:
That's true.



My own experiences with disembodied spirits is the very reason why I continue to believe in the spirit world.



I used to think I was unhinged when I was younger because I could see spirits and interact with them, but then I started encountering other people who had similar experiences to my own when I was in my early thirties. It wasn't long before I began to look into and learn about the paranormal on my own so I could have concrete proof of what I had seen and experienced since I was six years old.
Click to expand...
Not all have such experiences. But do you think these spirits target various individuals? Jesus certainly did recognize that certain individuals were dealing with spirits, you're probably aware of that.
 
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YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Trailblazer said:
Questions that believers cannot answer…. without resorting to a plethora of religious apologetics.:rolleyes:

If God is loving, why did God ‘intentionally’ create a world that He knew would engender so much human and animal suffering?

If God is just, why did God create a world in which He knew some people would suffer so much more than others, many people hardly suffering at all? How is that fair?

I am not referring to suffering caused by our own choices we make that cause us to suffer, I am talking about suffering as the result of fate and predestination.

To clarify, I believe that some things that happen to us are subject to human free will and some things are not, because they were predestined by God and we have no control over them. That is called fate.

All things that are not chosen by virtue of our own free are beyond our control and I believe they are predestined by God. God is responsible for both the good and the bad things that happen to us, if those things were predestined.

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 248

Man is compelled to endure the bad things that happen because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the Bad things happen are beyond our control. Some of these Bad things are caused by the free will decisions of other people that affect us and some of them are simply accidents, misfortunes and diseases. These are our fate, for which God is responsible.

Believers only want to look at the good things and thank God for those things, they do not want to look at the bad things for which God is responsible. Instead, they try to say that all the bad things are really good because suffering is good, and God can never be responsible for anything bad. This is a religious apologetic and Imo it is an attempt to gloss over all the suffering in the world and say God is not responsible for it.

It would be unfair to blame man for things that are beyond his control so who is responsible for all the suffering in the world that is not caused by man? Logically speaking, if God is responsible for 'everything' then God is responsible for 'both' the good and bad things that happen to us.

Isaiah 45:7 ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

I rest my case. :)
Click to expand...
I'm looking at this again. God TOLD Adam what He wanted. And what He did not want Adam to do.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Sheldon said:
No, I just explained that. I am worried about overpopulation, but your claim didn't make any sense to me. Can you explain why you think it makes sense?
Click to expand...
What's to explain?
It's a simple math equation.
It's completely logical if you happen to be a sociopath. And in the right circumstances I guarantee you a lot of people would make that choice if it wasn't them among the dead.
 
M

millerdog

Member
Maybe a self sustaining universe and life needs both positive and negative to work. And if it was all good with no bad it would not be meaningful and not real I believe. It has to be left alone or there would be no point. Therefore life is real. What we do is real and has meaning this way. For good and bad. So does our world
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
YoursTrue said:
I'm looking at this again. God TOLD Adam what He wanted. And what He did not want Adam to do.
Click to expand...

I remember having similar thoughts and gripes about us, God, and which of us the responsibility should fall on. I would use statements like: "I wasn't given a choice to be born" "If God created everything, then it falls on God, and not me - God's perfect, I'm not, so ..."

I think I was justifying what I deemed to be sinful in myself at that time in my life journey. In all honesty, it makes sense - to an adolescent mind. As i grew older, I shifted the blame and responsibility to myself. I'm here, it's my life, I'm responsible for my actions, despite not having been given a choice in the matter. The same applies to work situations. " Why should I be responsible for what so and so forgot to bring me. It was his job. I've been standing here for over an hour doing nothing waiting on his lazy a##.

Same concept - different application. At the end of the day, it's our responsibility to be responsible people. Ok, so life sucks sometimes. I'm trying to make it better, but ... If I fail to progress in difficulty, then I'm not yet prepared enough to move forward during difficult times. i think that covers quite a lot, actually.

It's my life - I should at the very least understand my part in the standstill as well as the move forward. I guess it comes down to choice and resolve, as we each traverse life as we are, learning as we go, and understanding what best would suit our personal needs. We can't expect God to do everything for us, nor should we expect others to do everything for us. Sometimes, (this is one of my favorite sayings I attribute to my grand-father) we need to push up our sleeves and put our hands to the plow,
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
So do you believe what the bahai religion teaches on this? I have given much thought to this question. And one thing is above all. God is God and we are not but there are so many things involved with this question. So first I'd like to know if you really think or believe there is a fiery hell awaiting for the unsaved? Some would be surprised at the answer. That's before I even talk to you about what the Bible really says about why we suffer
Click to expand...
No, I do not believe there is a fiery hell awaiting for the unsaved.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
I'm looking at this again. God TOLD Adam what He wanted. And what He did not want Adam to do.
Click to expand...
I do not believe that the story of Adam and Eve is a true story but rather it is fictional.
In other words, I do not believe that God told Adam anything. I believe all of those chapters and verses in Genesis that refer to Adam and Eve are allegorical, not events that really happened.
 
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