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Qu'ran: Did Jesus die?

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
I am well aware of the Surah of Maryam--in four English translations, I've read the whole of the Qur'an.
So how do you say the Quran and bible are at one with each other and from the same source when one says the other is altered and authored by man.

In light of everything that is an evidence in Islam.



I can quote sections of it.

Regards,
Scott
So what are you a hafiz?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
So how do you say the Quran and bible are at one with each other and from the same source when one says the other is altered and authored by man.

In light of everything that is an evidence in Islam.



So what are you a hafiz?


I am saying that any alteration in the text is not crippling to the Gospels. God is capable of protecting His Own word, is He not?

I can only quote small portions of it, so i am hardly a hafiz. Most of my memorization is dedicated to Baha`i Holy writings, not the Qur'an.

Today is a Baha`i Holy Day. We commemorate the martyrdom of the Bab, Whom we believe is the Imam Mahdi described by Muhammad.

"O My Brother! Until thou enter the Egypt of love, thou shalt never come to the Joseph of the Beauty of the Friend; and until, like Jacob, thou forsake thine outward eyes, thou shalt never open the eye of thine inward being; and until thou burn with the fire of love, thou shalt never commune with the Lover of Longing.
A lover feareth nothing and no harm can come nigh him: Thou seest him chill in the fire and dry in the sea.
A lover is he who is chill in hell fire;
A knower is he who is dry in the sea. [1]
[1 Persian mystic poem.]
Love accepteth no existence and wisheth no life: He seeth life in death, and in shame seeketh glory. To merit the madness of love, man must abound in sanity; to merit the bonds of the Friend, he must be full of spirit. Blessed the neck that is caught in His noose, happy the head that falleth on the dust in the pathway of His love. Wherefore, O friend, give up thy self that thou mayest find the Peerless One, pass by this mortal earth that thou mayest seek a home in the nest of heaven. Be as naught, if thou wouldst kindle the fire of being and be fit for the pathway of love."
(Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p. 9)

Regards,
Scott
 

Crowley

Member
Popeye said of Jesus Christ, "He was a mortal man--mortal means eventually you die."

And.... Jesus rose from the dead and is alive today and forever.
Mutiplied millions testify to this and many have seen him.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Popeye said of Jesus Christ, "He was a mortal man--mortal means eventually you die."

And.... Jesus rose from the dead and is alive today and forever.
Mutiplied millions testify to this and many have seen him.


Rose from the dead? Yes, actually--I agree, but he DIED first, right? He was born of woman, He was a mortal man, all mortal men die--Jesus was different in the regard that His Spirit rose directly to heaven and returned to earth for a period of time (in a sense).

Then when 600 years had passed and it came time for God's will to be made evident to man again, That self-same Spirit came again as a mortal man in the person of Muhammad. 1,260 years after that the self-same Spirit returned embodied in the Bab, and but nineteen years later, again to serve the will of God Baha`u'llah was that self-same Spirit.

Regards,
Scott
 

MBones

Member
Yes,
it is fiction as no religion has ever been confirmed by Science. And by no means am I an atheist, but an agnostic. Which means there may be a supreme creator but I do not have the knowledge or the intelligence to state that I know who he or she is or the right religion for that matter. Please get it right there are atheists and agnostics, and by no means do I mean to take away from atheists, they are the only ones who have something together that the rest of the religious world does not. Understanding... You mock my words but show me the right religion and I will let you off. Show me that with a minimal amount of proof, and I will concede..
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
What does it matter whether Jesus rose to Heaven physically or spiritually? It really doesn't when one sits down and thinks about it..The flesh shall inherit nothing and is of no use. If God willed Jesus to rise physically, then that was nothing but a sign from God. And if Jesus rose spiritually, then what harm could that do? Isn't it the spirit that will inherit the Kingdom of God anyways and not the flesh? In both instances Jesus is returning to God and is now entrusted to the Heavenly realm.
 

MBones

Member
The problem with the whole world is religious diversity. That is the problem. No one religion is right, and I will state that over and over again. I will invite anyone to tell me that their religion is right over any other.. And then I will answer them with concise, and logcial reasoning. I can't do it anymore, enough about religion... I am tired of explaining and causing people to think... Really think... If people are really that nieve, then go on, but do not consume us with your ignorance. That's it I will devote no more time to this. Think you are right and live in your lopsided world where other people are wrong and biasis are presented to you based on your religion. I don't want that and you shouldn't either.
 

Phil Lawton

Active Member
The problem with the whole world is religious diversity. That is the problem.

Just the one problem?

No one religion is right, and I will state that over and over again

So no one religion is right, but you are?

I will invite anyone to tell me that their religion is right over any other.. And then I will answer them with concise, and logcial reasoning.

OK, my religion is right over any other. I know this for a fact...what my religion is should be of no consquence to you, as your logic should apply equally to any faith.

Fire away.

I can't do it anymore, enough about religion

You do know the name of this site, don't you?

I am tired of explaining and causing people to think... Really think...

From reading your posts, I seriously doubt that anything you've said here has done that, so don't fret too much.

If people are really that nieve, then go on, but do not consume us with your ignorance.

That's it I will devote no more time to this. Think you are right and live in your lopsided world where other people are wrong

Do you know what 'irony' is?

and biasis are presented to you based on your religion.

Or culture...or social standing...or nationality...or sexual preference....or gender.

I don't want that and you shouldn't either.

grail04.jpg



"Help! Help! I'm being repressed"
 

MBones

Member
Wow! You are very good at manipulating words. Wow you should be a writer. Very good on your behalf. But I would like to respond if you will, at your different breaks in my response. I would be happy to explain them.
 

Phil Lawton

Active Member
Ok so your religion is right over any other???? Then explain that to me...

I don't have to...you said...

I will invite anyone to tell me that their religion is right over any other.. And then I will answer them with concise, and logcial reasoning

Explaining why wasn't a condition of your offer...so please lay your logic on me.
 

Phil Lawton

Active Member
Wow! You are very good at manipulating words. Wow you should be a writer. Very good on your behalf.

I didn't manipulate anything...I separated your words out to make it easier for you to understand my replies.

I would like to respond if you will, at your different breaks in my response. I would be happy to explain them.

But I have no idea what this means.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Wow! You are very good at manipulating words. Wow you should be a writer. Very good on your behalf. But I would like to respond if you will, at your different breaks in my response. I would be happy to explain them.


You are aware of the old adage: "Put up or Shut Up!" aren't you? Get on with it.

For the record I consider that there is only ONE religion, the religion of God, whether it be expressed by Muslims or Jews, or christians, or Buddhists, or Parsees, or Baha`i's

Regards,
Scott
 

Crowley

Member
"Then when 600 years had passed and it came time for God's will to be made evident to man again,"

Wherever did you hear this that 600 years had to pass to bring something? Please explain if you would. Thanks
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"Then when 600 years had passed and it came time for God's will to be made evident to man again,"

Wherever did you hear this that 600 years had to pass to bring something? Please explain if you would. Thanks

Six hundred years (approximately) IS how long it was between Christ and Muhammad.

It was also 1,260 years after Muhammad that the Bab appeared. This gave Islam 1,000 after the last of the Imams, That year was prosphesied to be the year of completion in Shi'ih hadith by the count of Imam Ali.

Regards,
Scott
 

Crowley

Member
"Six hundred years (approximately) IS how long it was between Christ and Muhammad."

Jesus said he is the First and the Last.
I take that to mean just that. He is Alpha and Omega.
So, why do you think someone else needs to come or rather did come; the Bab?
 

MBones

Member
Phil,

Of course you don't. But I will reply... The only thing I was trying to get across is how does anyone determine the right religion to follow? That is what I want to know. From my point of view, and I am not trying to **** of anyone here, but Christianity seems to say love thy brother and then go on a rampage and kill or convert anyone who doesn't believe the same things. That has been happining for years and years and no one seems to acknowledge what has happened in the past. Everyone takes the approach that God is love and that is all they are trying to show. Why are we killing innocent people in other countries? If we are a Christian nation, we should show them sympathy. I grew up a catholic and was confirmed in the church but now deny the ways that they exist.I don not believe that forcing someone to take a faith is right, and I do not believe the way we are taking over other countries is right. The whole Did Jesus die thing, is yes , he did die, for being a person who had beliefs and faught for those beliefs and that is not wrong.
 

Phil Lawton

Active Member
Phil,

Of course you don't. But I will reply... The only thing I was trying to get across is how does anyone determine the right religion to follow? That is what I want to know. From my point of view, and I am not trying to **** of anyone here, but Christianity seems to say love thy brother and then go on a rampage and kill or convert anyone who doesn't believe the same things. That has been happining for years and years and no one seems to acknowledge what has happened in the past. Everyone takes the approach that God is love and that is all they are trying to show. Why are we killing innocent people in other countries? If we are a Christian nation, we should show them sympathy. I grew up a catholic and was confirmed in the church but now deny the ways that they exist.I don not believe that forcing someone to take a faith is right, and I do not believe the way we are taking over other countries is right. The whole Did Jesus die thing, is yes , he did die, for being a person who had beliefs and faught for those beliefs and that is not wrong.

Drex

I think one of your fundamental (if you'll excuse the pun) mistakes here is in thinking of the USA as a "Christian nation" - it isn't, just as the founding fathers intended it not to be, no matter what Pat Buchanan might think.

This sort of leaves the door open for the USA to disregard religion in its foreign policy...and don't you feel just a little unpatriotic in this accusation when the West is being targeted by religious (in particular, Islamic) extremists who see the Islamification of the entire world as a viable and reasonable goal?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
"Six hundred years (approximately) IS how long it was between Christ and Muhammad."

Jesus said he is the First and the Last.
I take that to mean just that. He is Alpha and Omega.
So, why do you think someone else needs to come or rather did come; the Bab?

I believe all the Messengers are ONE, therefore ALL are "The First and the Last".
Each is not just a separate man invested with the Holy Spirit in a measure that is incomprehensible to man in general, but also a reiteration of all the went before and a promise of all that is yet to come.

From time to time the covenant requires renewal or we would never have needed Jesus either--Abraham would have sufficed.

Regards,
Scott

Regards,
Scott
 

Crowley

Member
Popeye I believe all the Messengers are ONE, therefore ALL are "The First and the Last".
Each is not just a separate man invested with the Holy Spirit in a measure that is incomprehensible to man in general, but also a reiteration of all the went before and a promise of all that is yet to come.

From time to time the covenant requires renewal or we would never have needed Jesus either--Abraham would have sufficed.

Regards,
Scott
:sorry1: What you believe and what God says in the Bible don't coincide.
We have to have a canon, something to measure everything by. Our canon is the Holy Bible. Your beliefs are from Persia not the Bible.
I was quoting from the Holy Bible.
 
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