Ghostaka
Active Member
Which parts would that be my friend? Looks like you are pulling this out of .. let's say someplace where the sun don't shine.
It is not the Muslims who wrote it, you've got your own records in the West.
Peace be upon you.
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Quran is free of errors
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
Which parts would that be my friend? Looks like you are pulling this out of .. let's say someplace where the sun don't shine.
It is not the Muslims who wrote it, you've got your own records in the West.
Peace be upon you.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Why was it impossible? I thought the muslims discovered all that science 1400 years ago?
What you're basically saying is: we've changed the way we read our holy book in order to claim scientific superiority. You've missed the question. Why now? Why, when the proof was revelaed 1400 years ago by god
did muslims not reveal science to the world?
Ghostaka
Active Member
Haven't you heard something called inspiration? If it wasn't for the 'Muslim scientists' driving to understand Allah's message and quest to obtain God-given knowledge do you think they (themselves) would be able to make any discoveries at that time? I am the first to say Allah knows best. Seriously? Is what you are saying making any sense to yourself?
Just one example... just one... Astronomical research:
"Have you not seen how Allah created seven heavens, one upon another, and set the moon therein for a light and the sun for a lamp?" {The Holy Quran}
I don't even have the time to quote the rest! (and super plus you're not worth it).
Wooo! Just found some:
And verily in cattle (too) will you find an instructive sign. From what is from their bodies, between excretions and blood, We produce, for your drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it. {The Holy Quran 16:66}
God is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see. {The Holy Quran 13:2}
Glory be to God, who created in pairs all things, of what the earth produces, of themselves, and of which they have no knowledge. {The Holy Quran 36:36}
Peace be upon you... yea lol.
***This sounds like a question you'd ask right? Click for article> WHY DOES THE QURAN NOT MENTION EXPLICITLY THE WONDERS OF CIVILIZATION, WHICH ARE SO IMPORTANT IN MAN’S EYES? WHY DOES IT, INSTEAD, CONTENT ITSELF WITH ALLUSIONS OR INDICATIONS OR REFERENCES?
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Ghostaka
Active Member
My mentioning impossible is a dismissal to some popular BS (some sorry few non-muslims like to spew) that Muhammad PBUH concocted these scientific references in the Quran. My bad, wouldn't expect you to get that.
What you're basically saying is: we've changed the way we read our holy book in order to claim scientific superiority. You've missed the question. Why now? Why, when the proof was revelaed 1400 years ago by god
You're really good at (pretend?) misinterpreting things I say. What they discovered was but a bit of knowledge compared to what Allah All Mighty knows. Even you can understand that; without downplaying what our good ol' scientist figured out (by the Will of God - I hasten to add).
Lol, we still no nothing (not like a frivolous example of yawning is everything, but) Scientists to-date don't even know (for certain) what the purpose of yawning is. And you know what? Only Allah knows.
FIY: In Islam it is said that yawning is the passage what of the devil in and/or out of you your body and as a result fasting is prescribed to those unmarried in order to minimize.... sexual desires (for example) <<<<< Homestasis and diffusion anyone?!
So... what are you going to misinterpret next?
Peace be upon you.
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Ghostaka
Active Member
What are you getting at? So what if Muslim scientists are not coming up with anything new lately; why does this even matter? Does it invalidate Islam in any way? Using Muslim scientists as a mark for what Islam had contributed in the field of science is limited to what scientists of today have proven. That is, the Muslim scientists were human.... like us. They died without being able to contribute any further because they could not live that long. So that brings us to the Muslim scientists of today. However, how can you discover more than before with the limitation of knowledge. The Allah has revealed many things in verses of the Quran that people cannot scientifically prove because our knowledge is barred. We cannot know everything, we are just human!
So high [above all] is Allāh, the Sovereign, the Truth. And, [O Muhammad], do not hasten with [recitation of] the Qur’ān before its revelation is completed to you, and say, “My Lord, increase me in knowledge.” {The Holy Quran 20:113}
Until you have unlocked some 'new' knowledge (by the Will of Allah) you cannot do anything else but look at what other things the Quran has prescribed for people. e.g. dealing with debt or will of a deceased with fairness, prohibition of interest (Sharia Banking), safe food, ailments, human rights and so on. So much more stuff that you are blatantly disregarding about Islam's foundation - the Quran.
Have the decency to go through the Quran yourself (without prejudices) before spewing propaganda that you think is justified through your opinions and those of whom are like you.
Peace be upon you.
__________
Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.
___________
And this is the sort of article you're looking for> WHY DOES THE QURAN NOT MENTION SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENTS EXPLICITLY, SO THAT EVEN THE MOST RECALCITRANT UNBELIEVERS WOULD FEEL COMPELLED TO AFFIRM IT, AND OUR MINDS BE EASED?
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YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
It matters because it underscores that Muslims now have little scientific understanding and so are quite happy babbling about so-called "Scientific miracles". Do try to keep up.
Actually, yes, it does because it makes Muslims appear ignorant and quite happy about being ignorant. That cannot be good for Islam as a whole because this childish tactic will only bring ignorant people into Islam at a time when you need the brightest minds available.
Doesn't it strike you as odd that science furthered by believers and taken up by non-believers has flourished to such an extent as to have left those believers in the dust screaming "allah akbar, baby".
Well this is certainly a deeply meaningful comment.
It's called research (or trial and error). Is this a new concept for you?
I think this explains perfectly why Muslims have contributed so very little to scientific thought for approximately 500 years. It's almost as if you expect the information to be handed to you on a golden platter.
So, what happened? Evidenly Muslims have not had their knowledge increased in a very long time and now you need non-believers to tell you how things are. That must be difficult to deal with.The "Holy" Qur'an 20:113 said:
Sorry I have no interest in being a pawn of Allah. I don't want the help of your invisible friend as I'd much rather figure out reality for myself.
I have read the Qur'an three times and studied Islam for nearly 8 fricken years. Frankly, as I said to another Muslim today, the more I learn and understand about Islam -- and its effects on the believer -- the less impressed I become with Islam.
Oh good grief.
gnostic
The Lost One
ghostaka said:
Do you think the Muslim scientists were nitwits that they can't discover, understand or learn something for themselves????
Is that what you are saying?
If you want to call those scientists morons, then that you're choice. I think the credits should be place where they are due and merits. The Qur'an is rubbish in explaining any phenomena, scientifically.
Inspirations are meaningless, if the scientifically impotent scripture don't even bother to explain clearly its understanding of the natural phenomena or the technology being used.
Do the Qur'an explain anything beyond its vague and gibberish verses?
If it does explain the inspiration, then it''s not scientific.
Do the Qur'an test or provide test results? If it doesn't then it's not scientific?
For it to have inspiration in the area of science, it needs definitive description/explanation. And the Qur'an can't even do that.
You do know what "definitive" mean, don't you?
The stupid verses that Muslims frequently quoted as being "scientific miracles", clearly demonstrate the lack of understanding of science.
Is the Qur'an a science book?
If you answer no, then -
- it (Qur'an) has no scientific inspiration;
- it has no scientific explanation (theory);
- it provides no scientific evidence to validate anything;
- it's not testable and provide no test results;
- it prove not a single shred of mathematical proof;
- and lastly, from all of the above, it has no scientific value.
And its not even good propaganda. It's transparent. You and other RF Muslims who used this techniques are no better than the Christian creationists and Intelligent Designers.
Ghostaka
Active Member
Sorry I have no interest in being a pawn of Allah. I don't want the help of your invisible friend as I'd much rather figure out reality for myself.
I have read the Qur'an three times and studied Islam for nearly 8 fricken years. Frankly, as I said to another Muslim today, the more I learn and understand about Islam -- and its effects on the believer -- the less impressed I become with Islam.
Oh good grief.
Hey have you noticed that you reply to every comment about Islam in the same way?
"Do try to keep up"- I am keeping up quite fine thank you .. but are you?
"Is this a new concept for you?" - lol
>>>>
<<<<"Sorry I have no interest.." - No it doesn't seem like it.
"I think this explains perfectly..." - Are you sure? because if you really did undertand anything I said, you wouldn't have replied like this. Ergo... I don't think you did.
'Judging' by you tone, those "8 fricken years" have done you no good. My friend, you are not the first disbeliever to ever exist.. have you realized that? People like you disbelieved/disowned their prophets (face to face) let alone some stranger on the Internet.
Islam is perfect, even though most Muslims nowadays are not quite so. Like I simplified the problem to your friend Alceste:
Quote: "Sorry I have no interest in being a pawn of Allah."
Allah knows best. < Do you know why Muslims prostrate themselves in humiliation in front of Allah? So that we don't build up such a dangerous amount of arrogance. You my friend have a quite serious case. You need to discharge that build up of negative static in your head
, So basically earth yourself!Peace be upon you.
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gnostic
The Lost One
ghostaka said:
This example showed little your god or prophet understand astronomy.
This 7 heavens quote is based on the understanding of Ptolemy's theory of planetary movements, where the earth is the centre, with 7 known planets (this would include the sun and moon, and the 5 planets) orbiting the earth. This planetary system, known as the geocentric system is completely wrong and outdated, and known in Babylonian and Greek astronomy.
Only the moon orbit around the earth, not the planets and certainly not the sun.
I have covered 2 so-called "scientific miracles" of Islamic astronomy in 2 different the Verse 21:30: What do you think this mean? and Why the Qur'an has no scientific values, showing how little Muslims understand their own texts.
Ghostaka
Active Member
Lmao, You speak like you are a scientist yourself. Just because YmirGF commented on the term "scientific miracles" you think that it somehow you can say that it "clearly demonstrates the lack of understanding of science". Seriously my friend?
Have some originality. At least I quote the word of Allah where do yo get your 'knowledge' from if Allah is the All Knower, All Hearer?
Have you sunk to accuse me of being illiterate? Oh my friend... I enjoy your grammar. Uh-oh!
In order for your claim of propaganda to be true you must prove with a religious scripture that Islam is so. You know, since you say this science 'stuff' doesn't e-q-u-a-t-e to the Quran right? You and your believe system are not transparent my friend
.Peace be upon you ... really I mean it.
Ghostaka
Active Member
Sure, and mentioning the the rest of the planets would help us in our lives (with peace internally) how? Do you not think that the 'inspiration' factor that I mentioned would affect the scientists into wanting to discover more about space for themselves. The Quran is a CLEAR book of GUIDANCE. Look at the size of an 'encyclopedia on a shelf'; there is too much information in there (as well as the fact that encyclopedias exist). Allah knows best, but wouldn't the Quran digress if it started talking about space IN-DEPTH. And I am not claiming to know how the Quran was designed because TRULY, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS HOW HE DID.
You are merely misinterpreting what I am saying as an attempt at making an argument. A question already answered: WHY DOES THE QURAN NOT MENTION EXPLICITLY THE WONDERS OF CIVILIZATION, WHICH ARE SO IMPORTANT IN MAN’S EYES? WHY DOES IT, INSTEAD, CONTENT ITSELF WITH ALLUSIONS OR INDICATIONS OR REFERENCES? << Super Quote: [FONT=verdana,arial]"The Quran does so because the wonders of civilization do not have more right than that to be included among the topics of the Quran. For the basic duty of the Quran is to teach about the perfections, essential qualities and acts of Divine Lordship and the duties and the status and affairs pertaining to the sphere of servanthood. That being so, the wonders of human civilization have no greater right than to be mentioned in the Quran either with a slight indication or implicit reference or allusion.[/FONT]"
^Can you read and understand the text in read?
You have "covered"? How can you claim this when you are not a Muslim, or at least know Arabic [Well do you?] to be able to read it from the Quran yourself (instead of some propaganda ensuing site that takes Quranic verses out of context as an attempt at disproving them)? Am I lying or are you deceiving yourself about whatever evidence (from Allah's word) we Muslims provide for you?
Peace be upon you.
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Ghostaka
Active Member
O Children of Israel, remember My favor which I have bestowed upon you and fulfill My covenant [upon you] that I will fulfill your covenant [from Me], and be afraid of [only] Me.
And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me.
And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know [it]. {The Holy Quran 2: 40-43}
And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be taken from it, nor will they be aided. {The Holy Quran 2:48}
O mankind, eat from whatever is on earth [that is] lawful and good and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
He only orders you to evil and immorality and to say about Allāh what you do not know. {The Holy Quran 2:168-169}
Peace be upon you.
And believe in what I have sent down confirming that which is [already] with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And do not exchange My signs for a small price, and fear [only] Me.
And do not mix the truth with falsehood or conceal the truth while you know [it]. {The Holy Quran 2: 40-43}
And fear a Day when no soul will suffice for another soul at all, nor will intercession be accepted from it, nor will compensation be taken from it, nor will they be aided. {The Holy Quran 2:48}
O mankind, eat from whatever is on earth [that is] lawful and good and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
He only orders you to evil and immorality and to say about Allāh what you do not know. {The Holy Quran 2:168-169}
Peace be upon you.
Response: The reference to the 7 heavens is actually another one of the many scientific miracles of the qur'an, if you only knew. It has nothing to do with what you've said above, nor is there any evidence that it does.
Response: It can't be too silly or vague at all because while you and other non-muslims want to claim that this is the case, the same arguments of muslims are presented to other non-muslims and they actually become muslims.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Is this supposed to be a startling revelation? Given that I am the writer of the words, it should be expected that I understand my own thinking.
Well, at least my words gave you some cheer and no, I don't have the slightest problem keeping up with Muslims, as I am usually several steps ahead."Do try to keep up"- I am keeping up quite fine thank you .. but are you?
"Is this a new concept for you?" - lol
>>>>
Yes, I understand this particularly lame point. The point being is that, theoretically, if I actually understood Islam I would only speak of Islam (and Muslims) in glowing terms. Given that I do not, Muslims come to the conclusion that my understanding is slight. In other words, I am used to this amusing response.
Is this another stunning revelation of the obvious? Part of the reason I remain a disbliever is because of the seemingly endless warnings about eternal torture in the Hellfire.
I don't suppose you can prove the fascinating notion that Islam is perfect, can you? I will assume that you understand some of the inherent problems with concepts of perfection.
Yes, I have heard of this, but frankly see little evidence that the process actually works. If I did see evidence that it worked I might give it a try. If you have any scientific research about this small point feel free to give me the names of the peer reviewed journals that the papers were presented in.Allah knows best. < Do you know why Muslims prostrate themselves in humiliation in front of Allah? So that we don't build up such a dangerous amount of arrogance. You my friend have a quite serious case. You need to discharge that build up of negative static in your head
gnostic
The Lost One
fatihah said:
If you looking for evidences, then I suggest that you read Ptolemy's 2 treatises on astronomy and astrology - Almagest and Tetrabiblos. Ptolemy's works are very influential.
All the Qur'an's verse (or verses) about 7 heavens is a poor imitation or make poor uses of the Ptolemy's theory.
We ought to give Mohammad credit for adding some imaginative twists to the Ptolomaic theory. Mohammad placed stars in the lowest heaven and he stated that their purpose was to guard the heavens by driving away jinns from the exalted assembly.
gnostic
The Lost One
shahzad said:
Twist it is. I would call it limited imagination, though. And certainly without logic or common sense, let alone lacking understanding real astronomy.
If the Muslims are so interested in the Truth, then they should misleading people with their so-called scientific miracles.
All the verses about 7 heaven, sun, moon and stars (and djinns) are not even suitable for children's fable, let alone the scientific field of astronomy.
If a single Muslim went to science conference about the djinns being driven away the stars in the lowest heaven, they would be laugh out the conference. Islam would be the laughingstock of the scientific communities.
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McBell
Unbound
rotflmao