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Quran Vs Bible in light of science

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
Try googling for pre-islamic embryology, aristotle or galen.

point no 1) you said , embryology was known to ancient Indian tribes , first of all Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) never went to that part of world...lol

point no 2)those tribes new few basics of embryology out of which many were wrong , and Modern Embryology is developed just recently in last 50-100 years back

like i said , As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat

this shows pathetic and desperate attempts of atheists , to prove quran wrong
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
*sigh*

You brought up the subjects of the 7 heavens have to do with firmaments or layers of atmosphere.

The 2 quotes in the Qur'an (verses 41:12 and 67:3-5) I had provided, both mentioned lights, lamps and stars (depending on the translations) being placed in the lower heaven (or lowest heaven).

If heaven is atmosphere, then according to you the lowest atmosphere is the troposphere.

Are you with me so far?

Now my real question is:

Do the troposphere (lowest heaven) contained stars?

If this is true, then Allah don't know anything about astronomy, let alone meteorology and atmosphere.

ok good thats how u should have wrote on the first place, let me find the verses
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
*sigh*

You brought up the subjects of the 7 heavens have to do with firmaments or layers of atmosphere.

The 2 quotes in the Qur'an (verses 41:12 and 67:3-5) I had provided, both mentioned lights, lamps and stars (depending on the translations) being placed in the lower heaven (or lowest heaven).

If heaven is atmosphere, then according to you the lowest atmosphere is the troposphere.

Are you with me so far?

Now my real question is:

Do the troposphere (lowest heaven) contained stars?

If this is true, then Allah don't know anything about astronomy, let alone meteorology and atmosphere.

ok i see now , you were quoting the other verse , and i replied to the other , ok my mistake bcz i wasn't even reading ur complete post & i mentioned it earlier....all the question are in same pattern so i assumed that....i don't like wasting my energy.lol
 
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DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
point no 1) you said , embryology was known to ancient Indian tribes , first of all Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) never went to that part of world...lol

point no 2)those tribes new few basics of embryology out of which many were wrong , and Modern Embryology is developed just recently in last 50-100 years back

like i said , As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat

this shows pathetic and desperate attempts of atheists , to prove quran wrong

"The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth - for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal's genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well).

Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded.

... Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed.

"I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins.

From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen.

The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen's moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone

The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time.

But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form "twigs", as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches.

The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed."

- Galen -

I'm sorry but that it immensely more detailed than the Qur'an. And it was written in about 150 BCE.
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
the first stage of the animal's genesis, employing at this task a faculty which



... Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same





The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed."

- Galen -

I'm sorry but that it immensely more detailed than the Qur'an. And it was written in about 150 BCE.
correct me if iam wrong it is talking about animals and again give me the source:areyoucra

p.s iam going to watch bleach...brb
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
islam432 said:
ok good thats how u should have wrote on the first place, let me find the verses

I gave you those same quotes (about the 7 heavens) several times, already. I just hope I'll get some answers before I turn 50. :(
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
I am not a Hindu, but I can see that you missed the entire point of my post altogether.

I think I'm just going to sit out on this thread from now on, seems to be a lost cause. :sleep:

Ok , is see your point, and sorry i assumed you were a Hindu

now coming to the answer , if any scripture has any scientific part correctly mentioned , it might be the word of God, i cant confirm it , but who knows , According to Quran Allah sent One Hundred and Thirty Thousand messenger(pbuh all) to this world , but by name only four are mentioned including Prophet Jesus(pbuh) and Moses(pbuh) And Quran says all the books revealed on messenger has been corrupted by time (even some Hindu and Christian scholar accept that) because they weren't needed any more , as those messenger were sent to a particular tribe and for a particular time , But as quran mentions Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final messenger sent by Allah and for all of the humankind for eternity , so other books arent needed anymore

And its even mentioned in their own scriptures , that there is a prophet to come who you should follow , and some places Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is prophesied by name, place, qualities etc

Also if you see Arabic(in which quran was revealed) and Hebrew in which originally bible(injeel) was written are like sister languages they both have complex grammar
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
correct me if iam wrong it is talking about animals and again give me the source:areyoucra

p.s iam going to watch bleach...brb

The source is Galen's writings on embryology, which can be found in any library, and are widespread on the Internet.

Image21.gif


Here is some of the original text.

And yes, the text does in some places refer to 'animals', because the Ancient Greeks had correctly identified that the process of embryology is apparent in all animals, humans being inclusive in this group.
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
Islam432, I strongly suggest that you do more research on this connection between Islam & science. You don't make your case look good by trotting easily
refuted claims. Many posters here have a background in science, so we won't be swayed by simplistic guesses, bluffs & rationalizations. Take your time,
& work on solid examples with evidence behind them. And that numerology stuff will never go anywhere...personally, I prefer the number 10 to 19 anyway.

you are right , i will try to write a book on my own next summers , but it takes times , going to libraries , putting the data together takes alot of time:thud:

also i have background in science , its only that its like 1 vs 100 here and if by mistake i put something wrong here , its like the place gets on fire , on the other hand i have proved many time's that they were wrong including on semen production , shape of earth , shape of universe , mountains ,orbit of sun and earth , big-bang , cosmic crunch etc
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
i have proved many time's that they were wrong including on semen production , shape of earth , shape of universe , mountains ,orbit of sun and earth , big-bang , cosmic crunch etc

1) Semen production mentioned a-priori by Greek scholars
2) Shape of the Earth already known by Greek scholars
3) Universe is not flat; it's GEOMETRY is flat
4) Mountains do not stop earthquakes; there are MORE earthquakes near mountain ranges
5) Heliocentric model developed by Greeks
6) Cosmic Crunch not going to happen; the Universe will have a 'heat death' of expansion into entropy

And you still haven't explained about the stars in the 'lowest heaven'
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
1) Semen production mentioned a-priori by Greek scholars
2) Shape of the Earth already known by Greek scholars
3) Universe is not flat; it's GEOMETRY is flat
4) Mountains do not stop earthquakes; there are MORE earthquakes near mountain ranges
5) Heliocentric model developed by Greeks
6) Cosmic Crunch not going to happen; the Universe will have a 'heat death' of expansion into entropy

And you still haven't explained about the stars in the 'lowest heaven'

again for 100th time site your sources before making claims , and i explained mountains already , also i explained cosmic church in detail on previous pages
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
again for 100th time site your sources before making claims , and i explained mountains already , also i explained cosmic church in detail on previous pages

You explained mountains, using antiquated science. Mountains do not stop earthquakes at all. How do you square the fact that earthquake prevalence is higher along mountain ranges with the Qur'an's claim that they stabilize the Earth? Mountains are a result of destablization where tectonic plates crash up against each other.

Cosmic crunch was completely wrong also.

Universe Is 30 Times More Run Down Than Thought, Astronomers Find

The Universe is most likely to end in heat death by expansion, instead of collapse.
 

Islam432

Practicing Muslim
1) Semen production mentioned a-priori by Greek scholars

Again and Again many Atheists claim that Quran copied that from greek although i haven't came across a single Greek book/credible source "which tells about semen production or any other false claims made "

Every time i google it i only find those thing written by non-muslims forums who are selling lies all over internet , sometimes they say Quran copied things from bible , now today a guy said Quran copied something from ancient indians etc ...lol

Even if for the sake of argument what they are saying is correct...then why is that Quran always copies the corrects things from surroundings???

like i said this shows the desperate attempts by Anti-Islam community who wanna prove Quran wrong so badly

2) Shape of the Earth already known by Greek scholars

wiki.answers.com/Q/How_did_humans_discover_that_the_earth_is_round_an d_not_flat
again iam not saying

3) Universe is not flat; it's GEOMETRY is flat

NASA , says that the universe is flat like a SHEET OF PAPER. Quran describes universe like a "scroll," which too is flat it doesn't says a specific shape/geometry

"The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books "

4) Mountains do not stop earthquakes; there are MORE earthquakes near mountain ranges

Although i proved from geological book's that the deep roots in earth helps the plates from shaking

but i give you a example : why does hospital have many patients although its job is to cure the patients

6) Cosmic Crunch not going to happen; the Universe will have a 'heat death' of expansion into entropy

Again iam repeating and iam not saying but scientists are

Abstract

In a broad class of dark energy models, the universe may collapse within a finite time tc. Here
we study a representative model of dark energy with a linear potential, V (φ) = V0(1 + αφ). This
model is the simplest doomsday model, in which the universe collapses rather quickly after it stops
expanding
. Observational data from type Ia supernovae (SNe Ia), cosmic microwave background
anisotropy (CMB), and large scale structure (LSS) are complementary in constraining dark energy
models. Using the new SN Ia data (Riess sample), the CMB data from WMAP, and the LSS data
from 2dF, we find that the collapse time of the universe is tc > ∼ 42 (24) gigayears from today at 68%
(95%) confidence.
PACS numbers: 98.80.Cq, 11.25.-w, 04.65.+e

read this
Cosmic Search Vol. 1, No. 4 - FORUM: John A. Wheeler
 
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