Race and Religion

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is a certain amount of "PC hand wringing" that I think is entirely appropriate. Like the example of native american headdresses and school mascots. It seems perfectly reasonable to be concerned about perpetuating stereotypes and giving offense needlessly. It does seem to me that there is an element in the very extreme wing of radical feminism or the academic left (I'm not sure what the preferred nomenclature is here) that might take the idea of cultural appropriation or privilege farther than I think is reasonable in some contexts. Or maybe it's that I think it doesn't make sense to try to view every question through only the lens of privilege and identity (whether sexual or racial or whatever). But on the other hand the other side which dismisses the actual reality of racism and sexism and privilege entirely is a bigger problem, I think.

No one's saying that there aren't still problems with racism and sexism, but people are blowing things out of proportion and also continuously stoking the fires. You can talk about "privilege" all you want, but that's not doing much to fix real-world problems. I'm sick of the post-modern left and their ivory tower academic crap, as well as the fusing of Marxism with rights movements (just replace the capitalist class with white people, or men, or Christians, or cis people, or able-bodied people, etc. ,etc.). I'm a realist and an individualist. I have no use for "theories". I think the modern mainstream left has done much damage to allegedly oppressed groups. I see a lot of white knighting and coddling by PC white people towards non-whites, as if we're stupid and helpless. I see a lot of implicit racism out of the left. And then non-white people fall into this victim mentality and then it's all about "hate whitey" and eternal grudges. I know for a fact that there's a lot of racism among black people, especially young black people, towards whites. This is just divisive bull**** that never solves anything.

 

[lovemuffin]

The best criticism of the left that I've read on this topic in a while was this: Not a Very P.C. Thing to Say -- NYMag

I think the criticism is valid, it's just a value judgement about how the failures of that particular movement stack up against the more traditional cultural failures that the "PC left" criticize. At least for me, the one seems to be in a separate class from the other, but I admit I haven't really ever had to deal first hand with the kinds of things Chait is talking about in that article.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The best criticism of the left that I've read on this topic in a while was this: Not a Very P.C. Thing to Say -- NYMag

I think the criticism is valid, it's just a value judgement about how the failures of that particular movement stack up against the more traditional cultural failures that the "PC left" criticize. At least for me, the one seems to be in a separate class from the other, but I admit I haven't really ever had to deal first hand with the kinds of things Chait is talking about in that article.

Thanks for that. I'll give it a read.

 

[Poeticus]

No one's saying that there aren't still problems with racism and sexism, but people are blowing things out of proportion and also continuously stoking the fires. You can talk about "privilege" all you want, but that's not doing much to fix real-world problems. I'm sick of the post-modern left and their ivory tower academic crap, as well as the fusing of Marxism with rights movements (just replace the capitalist class with white people, or men, or Christians, or cis people, or able-bodied people, etc. ,etc.). I'm a realist and an individualist. I have no use for "theories". I think the modern mainstream left has done much damage to allegedly oppressed groups. I see a lot of white knighting and coddling by PC white people towards non-whites, as if we're stupid and helpless. I see a lot of implicit racism out of the left. And then non-white people fall into this victim mentality and then it's all about "hate whitey" and eternal grudges. I know for a fact that there's a lot of racism among black people, especially young black people, towards whites. This is just divisive bull**** that never solves anything.

I despise that "kill Whitey"/"hate Whitey" crap with a passion. Frankie, you see the following individuals?

They are fellow Hindus. And as per the proponents of that hateful garbage of a phrase, these Hindus should be killed or hated because they are White. It's indirectly anti-Hindu, and it's something that I can never pardon. Who the heck do those hateful scum think they are? Don't they know that "killing Whitey" would entail the murder of numerous Hindus that are a part of my religion? By all the gods and goddesses of Dharma combined, let the hateful scum try! Not even Lord Shiva will come to their aid! What a horrid and disturbing phrase!

The best criticism of the left that I've read on this topic in a while was this: Not a Very P.C. Thing to Say -- NYMag

I think the criticism is valid, it's just a value judgement about how the failures of that particular movement stack up against the more traditional cultural failures that the "PC left" criticize. At least for me, the one seems to be in a separate class from the other, but I admit I haven't really ever had to deal first hand with the kinds of things Chait is talking about in that article.

That looks like an extremely interesting read, thank you for bring it up.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That's a beautiful picture, @Poeticus . I'd be honored to call those guys my brothers.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Oh, and here's a white Jewish Voodoo priestess: Sallie Ann Glassman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Uh oh! How dare she! She's not the only one, either! TOP TEN MOST POWERFUL VOODOO PRIESTESSES OF NEW ORLEANS Haunted New Orleans
Tours

 

[Nietzsche]

You have to understand why POC get suspicious about including white people in their faiths. I don't really blame south Asians for staring at you when you go to Hindu temples. There are white people who culturally appropriate and are disrespectful to other faiths esp Hinduism because of all the new age, modern hippie bs. "Oh I was Hindu for 2 months" How can you be Hindu for 2 months!?
It also makes me uncomfortable when white people are interested in practising voodoo or being rasta as those faiths developed out of oppression and the African diaspora, why would a white person be interested in being a part of that?
White people have a history of taking what is sacred to other cultures and turning it into a trend and even hypersexualising it.

Oh please, spare me this nonsense. Culture is culture, all humans are equally entitled to whatever faith & ideas they feel drawn to. Anything else is no better than the Folkist-exclusive bull you see in the more backwards sects of Asatru and the like.

 

[Revoltingest]

I despise that "kill Whitey"/"hate Whitey" crap with a passion. Frankie, you see the following individuals?

They are fellow Hindus. And as per the proponents of that hateful garbage of a phrase, these Hindus should be killed or hated because they are White. It's indirectly anti-Hindu, and it's something that I can never pardon. Who the heck do those hateful scum think they are? Don't they know that "killing Whitey" would entail the murder of numerous Hindus that are a part of my religion? By all the gods and goddesses of Dharma combined, let the hateful scum try! Not even Lord Shiva will come to their aid! What a horrid and disturbing phrase!

That looks like an extremely interesting read, thank you for bring it up.

I sense that some of these guys are gardeners.

Hmmm...I wonder if my intersectional patriarchal male gazing privilege is culturally insensitive for wearing Hawaiian shirts because I'm a haole?
Btw....
Kill Haole Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm reminded of when I was in high school and was made fun of by black students for listening to "white people music", wearing band shirts, having piercings, etc. (I remember a black substitute teacher getting uppity with me because I was wearing a Pantera shirt that had a Rebel Flag on it. Lol.) I still actually get **** talked about me in the ghetto by black kids at times. Do I give a **** what they think? Hell no! I have the right to listen to the music I like and wear what I want just as people have the right to practice whatever religion they please and wear whatever cultural garb they please. Get over it.

 

[Vinayaka]

I sense that some of these guys are gardeners.

That would be correct. They have an endangered plant collection, amongst other amazing plants.

 

[Revoltingest]

That would be correct. They have an endangered plant collection, amongst other amazing plants.

Hah! I knew it!
Planting stuff is about the most fun one can have while standing up.
Writing one's name in the snow is up there too.

 

[Nietzsche]

As I'm sure you know, there is racism and neo-Nazism in Heathenry also. The Ásatrú Folk Alliance, makes no bones about it that the Northern Traditions are for those of Germanic descent only. In fact, in a little book they publish, which I have, called The Book of Uncommon Prayer they use the term Northern Folk. I've adapted that to simply Folk, People or Kin where necessary. There are some extremely racist and white supremacist elements in Odinism. I understand it's particularly popular in US prisons. Fortunately this Folkism and racism is not a common view. The Troth and the Ásatrúarfélagid of Iceland denounce this.

In a better world, or a better era, it wouldn't be against the law to turn Folkists & their neo-Nazi ilk into Blood Eagles.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The best criticism of the left that I've read on this topic in a while was this: Not a Very P.C. Thing to Say -- NYMag

I think the criticism is valid, it's just a value judgement about how the failures of that particular movement stack up against the more traditional cultural failures that the "PC left" criticize. At least for me, the one seems to be in a separate class from the other, but I admit I haven't really ever had to deal first hand with the kinds of things Chait is talking about in that article.

That's a brilliant article. He's right on target, for the most part, although I might not agree with statements like this:

"Political correctness appeals to liberals because it claims to represent a more authentic and strident opposition to their shared enemy of race and gender bias. And of course liberals are correct not only to oppose racism and sexism but to grasp (in a way conservatives generally do not) that these biases cast a nefarious and continuing shadow over nearly every facet of American life. Since race and gender biases are embedded in our social and familial habits, our economic patterns, and even our subconscious minds, they need to be fought with some level of consciousness. The mere absence of overt discrimination will not do."

 

[SomeRandom]

You are forgetting Kashmiris, Punjabis, Himachalis, Uttarkhandis, and of course, Aishwarya Roy.

Kashmiri, Punjabi, Himachali, Uttarkhand, Aishwarya (though she is from Karnatak). And, of course, Ladakhis, Sikkimese, Bengalis, and so many others.

But Lord Vishnu and all his avataras are as dark as a rain-laden cloud (Ghana Shyama).

My apologies to the various peoples I neglected to mention. (Side note. DAMN! Those are some HUGE nose rings! )

 

[SomeRandom]

I despise that "kill Whitey"/"hate Whitey" crap with a passion. Frankie, you see the following individuals?

They are fellow Hindus. And as per the proponents of that hateful garbage of a phrase, these Hindus should be killed or hated because they are White. It's indirectly anti-Hindu, and it's something that I can never pardon. Who the heck do those hateful scum think they are? Don't they know that "killing Whitey" would entail the murder of numerous Hindus that are a part of my religion? By all the gods and goddesses of Dharma combined, let the hateful scum try! Not even Lord Shiva will come to their aid! What a horrid and disturbing phrase!

That looks like an extremely interesting read, thank you for bring it up.

What a wonderful group of Hindus. I'm proud to call them my brothers, my people.

 

[Aupmanyav]

She is from Himachal Pradesh (Simla, Kulu, Manali). I saw a similar extremely beautiful Gujarati village girl when we were going from Dwarika to Bet Dwarika. Another I saw in Jodhpur carrying a pitcher of milk on her head. They are everywhere in India. They are described in literature as having a 'kanchan kaya' (a golden body). You would not believe it, but the only color that can be compared to their complexion is gold. When you see them, you are compelled to stop in your stride. No, my wife does not have a 'kanchan kaya', but I am satisfied with what I got and did not have many complaints.

 

[ShivaFan]

That is it! Himachal Pradesh! I have heard from only 1 other only from the West who was there, this was a LONG time ago, and was described as the "true Shangri La" (?) .... It MUST be!

 

[Aupmanyav]

(Side note. DAMN! Those are some HUGE nose rings! )

I suppose they put it off at night (otherwise can be inconvenient). Nose rings, earrings, the plum on the head (bore), bangles on arms, tinkle bells on feet (which tell the husband that his wife is coming to bed and also informs the MIL of what is happening there), all parts of a woman's adornment in India.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I suppose they put it off at night (otherwise can be inconvenient). Nose rings, earrings, the plum on the head (bore), bangles on arms, tinkle bells on feet, which tell the husband that his wife is coming to bed and also informs the MIL of what is happening there), all parts of a woman's adornment in India.

Indian ladies sure have style. I gotta give it to them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is it! Himachal Pradesh! I have heard from only 1 other only from the West who was there, this was a LONG time ago, and was described as the "true Shangri La" (?) .... It MUST be!

This is Himachal Pradesh starting with Kinner Kailash, unknown, Parashar Lake and Dhauladhar Mountains.