Racism in Scripture! Why do people deny it?

[halbhh]

NO, your Scripture verses don't say what you claim they do, so I'm not impressed.

The Bible doesn't say to abolish slavery. The Bible sanctions slavery. END OF STORY!

It's actually a fact! You're finding a few verses, and some of your claims are ludicrous, like racist people will not enter Heaven.

Was that you who said that? Racist people and slave owners don't necessarily lose salvation. Do you disagree?

Job was the most righteousness upright man, and he had many slaves. I'm guessing he is enjoying Heaven with countless other people who owned slaves on earth.

But I don't state things as fact. I see that you on the other hand love to decide Scripture means something it doesn't say. You make big leaps and stretches. I'm not buying it!

We are surrounded by slavery right now.

Why isn't it 100% gone now that most of it is outlawed?

I wonder if you'd be willing to consider the why for that. It takes more than just a paragraph to explain well, so you might want to read it another day if you are getting tired of too much to read in one day, but I'll post it just below. Have a good evening!

 

[halbhh]

Why God couldn't just merely outlaw slavery and be done with it all at once.

As most of you know, slavery was common around the world 3,000 years ago. One tribe or city would defeat another and enslave people, etc.

Let's consider how God could end that....

Really think on it carefully.

Suppose God made a law like this one: "All the time, do for others what you'd have them do for you if you were in their situation, regardless of how convenient or hard that is, never any exceptions"
(i.e., Matthew 7:12)

Well....some people would follow it a lot of the time -- like 2 times out of 3...

And...a very few people would follow it most all the time....say 9 times out of 10 or better...

But most would not -- they'd break it over and over, doing it maybe 1/3rd of the time or less.

Now, let's consider a law against general slavery including modern forms: to not take advantage of others in even small ways:

Proposed law: Wage Fairness: Always pay everyone working for you an equal pay to your own income, so that if you are making for example $80,000 per year, you should pay every worker you or your business has also that same income, so that their income (for every worker) is equal to your own income.

Does it seem like a functional law that would work today in America?

Laws have to meet 2 basic standards to work (to be effective to end the problem).

A good law has to be both:

• practical (so that following the law will be sustainable over time, not self defeating)
• ...and...
• respected (seen as good) by enough people so that they choose to follow the law

If a law fails to meet either of these standards, it is destructive.

For a destructive law, look at Prohibition in the U.S. back in the 1920s-30s: it helped create more organized crime, made the mob richer, and reduced law following in general.

When a law isn't widely followed, the effect is to actually make law itself seem less important/serious/respectable to average citizens.

After a bad law, people start breaking not only the bad law, but more....

Another example: The nationwide 55 mph speed limit in the U.S. of the 1970s. Before that law, people mostly followed speed limits.

Now, today, after that destructive and harmful law, people largely ignore speed limits.

Bad law harms all law, by reducing the Rule of Law.

So, laws that actually help humanity must be doable/acceptable to the majority of people, in order to actually be a benefit.

To help, instead of making things worse.

Therefore, The only good way to end slavery that will work is similar to what I was trying to recount in post #27 above -- the way God choose: incrementally tightening laws over time, one small step at a time, a slow struggle with the human heart to change the human heart.

Still it helps to have an objective rule that most people might actually do! --
15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. 16 Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them.
Deuteronomy 23, circa 1300 BCE -- an incremental law to slowly squeeze slavery and make it harder to do....

The real struggle though is to change human hearts. So that we don't want to take advantage of others.

Until finally, one person at a time, every form of slavery, every way people take advantage of others -- is slowly extinguished.

As a species we are not there yet.

But many hearts have gotten closer to not want to take advantage of others even in commonplace ways....

You are there when you don't try in even the smallest way to put someone at a disadvantage, not even about their understandings, beliefs, preferences, etc.

Few are fully there, of course, but the goal is in sight, as Christ laid it out.

 

[MyM]

Yeah, but the Quran is extremely bigoted towards Christians, Polytheists, Jews, and Christians. The Quran has graphic tortures, mutilations, says infidels will be crucified, have boiling water poured on their faces , and their hands and feet cut off!!

That is so sick, foul, psychopathic, sadistic, barbaric, vicious, cruel, and wrong, I don't know how you could say the Quran is better than the Bible!??

ummm maybe you are describing hellfire?

The People of the Book are still believers as they believed in their time, the true message that was brought in their time. I think you have a distorted view of the Quran. Maybe you could try reading it with an open mind next time and what you don't understand, go on to the next or ask those who know

 

[Neuropteron]

Just because the New Testament contains a few words of equality amongst "gentile, Jew, Greek, slave, free, man , woman etc. " There are many verses that say the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Hi,

One example would be appriciated and make a comment on your premise possible.

 

[Kenny]

So how do you interpret this?

1 Timothy 2:11-12
11 - Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.
12 - I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Isn't it difficult to be a pastor if you are not allowed to teach?

Also how is it not a man dominated society if women are not allowed to exercise authority over men, but men over women are fine? Basically the women should just be quiet.

Also, I don't know who Paul is to allow or not allow anyone anything? Did he get the authority from Jesus or God?

Those are actually great questions so to address those questions:

1) Women teaching - translation issues:

First, and for me probably the most important, if it was the law for women not to teach then Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, and Phoebe wouldn't have been teaching and Paul would have corrected it.

So, we have to find out why to the scriptures mentioned.

1) The word for women and wives in the Greek are exactly the same so we have to look at the context. Does it mean wife or woman and does it mean man or husband because the English translation doesn't always translate accordingly.

2) Additionally, women in those days did not receive an education. The growth curve to have them catch up was immense. If but the culture of having someone to stay and take care of the children. No daycares, no both parents having a job. That wasn't the culture of that time

3) Last, in other parts of scripture, we have to remember that men and women didn't sit together in the synagogue/church. Culture. That also created a problem. (This is happening in some places even today)

Deborah, TaNaKh, was a judge. She both taught and judged - that didn't change in the advent of Jesus... it was enlarged so that in Christ, there was neither male nor female.

Priscilla, along with her husband, is someone Paul names as a “co-worker” in Christ, and in Acts 18, Priscilla teaches Apollos, a “learned man, with a thorough knowledge of scripture.” Thus, a woman was teaching a man.

The biggest issue that they wanted to address was usurping authority. The enthusiasm of their newfound faith had the pendulum swinging too far so... Timothy:

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

the context is "marriage" as in Adam and Eve. "learn in silence" has to do with a synagogue/church where women were on one side or in the back as also dictated in Corinthians (same issue)

1 Corinthians 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Not that they couldn't learn but in the Corinthian church there was such disorder that having women speak from one side of the aisle to the other so "learn at home" was the direction.

Later in years, women learned and became pastors.

16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

This is a great supportive scripture... Not only is Phebe mentioned but Priscilla was mentioned before her husband (she taught Apollos) and naming her first gives the understanding that she was the leader at her home church.

 

[Kenny]

What @KenS refuses repeatedly to do is identify the obvious

The obvious: Scripture often says the exact opposite message in one verse, that it says in another, causing people to have opposite opinions. Hence, it is clear and blatantly obvious, Scripture contradicts itself! END OF STORY!

source?

 

[Spiderman]

Hi,

One example would be appriciated and make a comment on your premise possible.

My premise, anyone who has read the Bible, simply knows to be true.

Israelites made up a tiny percent of the world's population. They were a sacred bloodline, descendants of Jacob.

They were exalted above every other nation or bloodline, extremely nationalistic, extremely patriotic, extremely militant, extremely rigid laws, were extremely intolerant of minor offenses (like working on Sabbath resulting in Capital punishment), and if America were run like that, everyone would identify America a Fascist nation.

There were no votes in God's form of government. It qualified as a totalitarian military Dictatorship, absolute Monarchy, absolute Theocracy!

This ethnic group, or to be more accurate "sacred bloodline", was not to marry with other ethnicities (something known today as "racial purity", practiced by the most hated regime of the 20th century). Israelites completely annihilated other cities of people who didn't belong to that bloodline (Google genocide in the Old Testament. You will get many results).

Any time you favor one bloodline, bless and exalt them above any other bloodline, and curse other bloodlines (like the descendants of Ham), that is the same error as racism and ethnic discrimination.

God chose to reveal the truth to his chosen people, give his law to his chosen people, violently conquer land with his chosen people, write the Scriptures with his chosen people (with the exception of Luke, whom some argue was a gentile) which anyone who has read the Bible, knows this to be true.

Let me ask you, who besides the descendants of Jacob, was God revealing the truth, his law, and his precepts to? Who, other than God's chosen people, did God so bless and richly exalt, out of all people in the world?

To so richly bless and exalt the ancestors of one man, and give so little , or no grace to other people's ancestors, is discrimination, and a racist mentality. And God went so far as even curse the descendants of Ham to be slaves.

(Matt. 15:21–28; Mark 7:24–30). When the woman asks Jesus to heal her demon-possessed daughter, he says, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” The woman responds, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table,” at which point Jesus commends her faith and heals her daughter instantly. Until now,, Jesus has been racist, dismissing foreign people as “dogs.”

That is a racist mentality. To refer to a group of people, who don't have the same ancestors or ethnic backround as you, as "dogs", and your people are "Children of God", human beings, is extremely racist.

Jesus chose only people of his ethnicity to be his Apostles. Another example of discrimination and racism.

If you have read the Bible, you already know this. Otherwise, please use google!

 

[Spiderman]

ummm maybe you are describing hellfire?

The People of the Book are still believers as they believed in their time, the true message that was brought in their time. I think you have a distorted view of the Quran. Maybe you could try reading it with an open mind next time and what you don't understand, go on to the next or ask those who know

Even if it is Hell fire, Cutting off hands and feet, pouring boiling water on people, burning, crucifying, is completely psychopathic, cruel, hateful, sadistic, disgusting, sick, foul, and wrong!

It's in the Quran. I've read it multiple times. And the Quran is full of bigotry, always judging and condemning polytheists, Christians, Jews, and those who join associates with God!

It is cruel, intolerant, mean, and hateful!

I love good Muslims. Most are humble, loveable people. . I have known many of them. But I take a stand against hate speech. And it is in the Quran!

 

[Kenny]

Jews are part of the world that God supposedly loves. Why did they (God's chosen ones) have to endure Hitler?

That is a great question... but why stop there? The Poles almost 6 million Rwanda? WWI, et al?

Of course, you will have every answer in the rainbow spectrum... but here is my take as I read scripture:

God gave mankind to man and also gave him free will. I we were to ask "why didn't He stop the WWII Holocaust, we would then have Him also stop WW!, abuse, slave trade et al. Basically eliminating free-will. We would all be puppets and He, then, would be a liar when He said He gave man the dominion.

Parents love their children but can't stop them from shooting drugs, murdering, lying et al.

When we say "Chosen ones", one has to ask "Chosen for what"?!

Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

They were chosen for the office of a priesthood. Priests to whom? The world!!

We are "all chosen" but different offices or purpose. Not more than, not less than, just a different office. There is no exception of people for God.

There is just the human race

 

[Spiderman]

source?

The Bible is full of contradictions. You seriously want to play games like it isn't??

You're a pastor? Holy Mother of God! You're a pastor that doesn't hardly know the Bible??? Really?

Contradictions
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The Permanence of Earth
“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Seeing God
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Human Sacrifice
“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21

[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31

[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34

The Power of God
“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

Personal Injury
“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

Circumcision
“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10

“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

Incest
“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

Trusting God
“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2

Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3

The Holy Lifestyle
“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7

“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30

Punishing Crime
“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

Temptation
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

Family Relationships
“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26

Resurrection of the Dead
“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9

“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29

The End of the World
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12

“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18

“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7

 

[Kenny]

The Bible is full of contradictions. You seriously want to play games like it isn't??

You're a pastor? Holy Mother of God! You're a pastor that doesn't hardly know the Bible??? Really?

Contradictions
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The Permanence of Earth
“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

Seeing God
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

Human Sacrifice
“… Thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God…” — Leviticus 18:21

[In Judges, though, the tale of Jephthah, who led the Israelites against the Ammonoites, is being told. Being fearful of defeat, this good religious man sought to guarantee victory by getting god firmly on his side. So he prayed to god] “… If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering” — Judges 11:30-31

[The terms were acceptable to god — remember, he is supposed to be omniscient and know the future — so he gave victory to Jephthah, and the first whatsoever that greeted him upon his glorious return was his daughter, as god surely knew would happen, if god is god. True to his vow, the general made a human sacrifice of his only child to god!] — Judges 11:29-34

The Power of God
“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

Personal Injury
“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

Circumcision
“This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.” — Genesis 17:10

“…if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” — Galatians 5:2

Incest
“Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of this mother…” — Deuteronomy 27:22

“And if a man shall take his sister, his father’s daughter, or his mother’s daughter…it is a wicked thing….” — Leviticus 20:17

[But what was god’s reaction to Abraham, who married his sister — his father’s daughter?] See Genesis 20:11-12

“And God said unto Abraham, As for Sara thy wife…I bless her, and give thee a son also of her…” — Genesis 17:15-16

Trusting God
“A good man obtaineth favour of the LORD…” — Proverbs 12:2

Now consider the case of Job. After commissioning Satan to ruin Job financially and to slaughter his shepherds and children to win a petty bet with Satan. God asked Satan: “Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” — Job 2:3

The Holy Lifestyle
“Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart…” — Ecclesiastes 9:7

“…they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not…” — 1 Corinthians 7:30

Punishing Crime
“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

Temptation
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

Family Relationships
“Honor thy father and thy mother…”– Exodus 20:12

“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. ” — Luke 14:26

Resurrection of the Dead
“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9

“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29

The End of the World
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. ” — Matthew 16:28

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. ” — Luke 21:32-33

“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” — Romans 13:11-12

“Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” — James 5:8

“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.” — 1 John 2:18

“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” — 1 Peter 4:7

Like I said.... you are GREAT at repeating (googling) - but are REAL shy on the knock, seek, find and ask.

Great sheeple.

Since you really don't care... I will just take the first one:

Contradictions
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5

The first (which didn't exist before Moses), was for the Jews.

Jesus comes on the scene and says:

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Size given for impact.

When one is "born again" there is a new set of Laws. God isn't Lord of just one day but every day. We "enter into rest" once we accept Jesus. Since Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, He has every right to dictate how His Kingdom operates.

I know you didn't knock, seek, find or ask... but I thought I would show you how asking produces understanding. (Of course this is a short version - but you haven't shown yourself very inquisitive...

oh, and:

You're a pastor? Holy Mother of God! You're a pastor that doesn't hardly know the Bible??? Really?

This is a childish statement. Especially from one who doesn't even know how to interpret the Bible. PS... God doesn't have a mother.

 

[74x12]

I didn't say the flood was racist. I said it was cruel, harsh, mean, inhumane, disgusting genocide!

In 1 Kings 14:13 we see God took one of Jeroboam's sons early while he was young. Not because this kid was bad. God took him because he was better than the rest of his family and so God spared him being corrupted by an evil generation.

Everyone dies eventually. Are you mad that you're not immortal? We're not perfect; so God won't make us immortal yet because we aren't perfect yet. This life is for spiritual growth. It's not promised to be easy or long for everyone. We can't all be Methuselah. The flesh itself of everyone is at war with God constantly. As it says in the Bible; the flesh lusts against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh.

God gave them 120 years to repent before the flood came and promised his holy Spirit would continue to literally strive with them until the time was up. That's a long time. And to be clear they had 120 years to actually stop the flood from happening if they did repent. And furthermore God cared so much that the holy Spirit would continue to wrestle with their flesh trying to get them to accept the spiritual instead of fleshly corruption. But they chose not to listen and corrupted themselves morally and even genetically. They were having children with fallen angels which were evil beings and their children were basically demons embodied. These beings were arrogant and evil and largely refused to repent themselves. They also taught normal humans to be evil as well. So God couldn't let this genetic corruption or moral corruption go unchecked or it would end the human race. That was the real genocide!

The people who died in the flood ... are they all the worst sinners ever? No. Many children must have died. It's not God being cruel. If they died innocent then they're far better off than people who die as old fat, rich people but are laden down with many sins.

 

[Spiderman]

Like I said.... you are GREAT at repeating (googling) - but are REAL shy on the knock, seek, find and ask.

Great sheeple.

Since you really don't care... I will just take the first one:



The first (which didn't exist before Moses), was for the Jews.

Jesus comes on the scene and says:

Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Size given for impact.

When one is "born again" there is a new set of Laws. God isn't Lord of just one day but every day. We "enter into rest" once we accept Jesus. Since Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, He has every right to dictate how His Kingdom operates.

I know you didn't knock, seek, find or ask... but I thought I would show you how asking produces understanding. (Of course this is a short version - but you haven't shown yourself very inquisitive...

oh, and:



This is a childish statement. Especially from one who doesn't even know how to interpret the Bible. PS... God doesn't have a mother.

God doesn't have a Mother?? hmmm.....

Interesting, for over 1500 years, every Christian Church on the face of the earth believed he does.

That means , you are smarter than all the Christians on earth for over 1500 years.

OMG! I'm so fortunate! I'm having a conversation with a guy more holy than Mother Teresa and every Pope! Wow!

God hid the truth from everyone, for over 1500 years, and finally people realize God doesn't have a mother?

If Jesus wasn't God, why did people call him Lord and worship him, and he didn't object to it?? Jesus said, those who see him, have seen the Father. he said that he and the Father are one.

Scripture says, "The word was God, and the word became flesh (Christ) , and dwelt among us". Um...So, he was God, incarnate in a womb, born of a woman, so, God had a Mother.

So, since you speak such obvious falsehoods and heresy, thanks for letting me know not to listen to you! You despise the Holy Spirit obviously, because you oppose the Church that Jesus founded, the bride of Christ, and you choose to teach Doctrines that divide Christians.

The first Christians were not Bible Christians. That is a man made garbage heresy that did more damage to Christianity, confused and divided more people, than any scandal or terrible affliction to strike the Church! Nothing in the Bible says to use the Bible as an authority on anything! And you are pushing that madness!!!

So, since you are separated from the Church that Christ founded, you oppose it, you teach opposite Doctrines, you teach obvious heresy that no Christian churches were teaching for over 1500 years, thank you for informing me that you are an enemy of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit!

Have a nice day!

 

[Nimos]

Those are actually great questions so to address those questions:

1) Women teaching - translation issues:

First, and for me probably the most important, if it was the law for women not to teach then Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, and Phoebe wouldn't have been teaching and Paul would have corrected it.

So, we have to find out why to the scriptures mentioned.

1) The word for women and wives in the Greek are exactly the same so we have to look at the context. Does it mean wife or woman and does it mean man or husband because the English translation doesn't always translate accordingly.

2) Additionally, women in those days did not receive an education. The growth curve to have them catch up was immense. If but the culture of having someone to stay and take care of the children. No daycares, no both parents having a job. That wasn't the culture of that time

3) Last, in other parts of scripture, we have to remember that men and women didn't sit together in the synagogue/church. Culture. That also created a problem. (This is happening in some places even today)

Deborah, TaNaKh, was a judge. She both taught and judged - that didn't change in the advent of Jesus... it was enlarged so that in Christ, there was neither male nor female.

Priscilla, along with her husband, is someone Paul names as a “co-worker” in Christ, and in Acts 18, Priscilla teaches Apollos, a “learned man, with a thorough knowledge of scripture.” Thus, a woman was teaching a man.

The biggest issue that they wanted to address was usurping authority. The enthusiasm of their newfound faith had the pendulum swinging too far so... Timothy:

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

the context is "marriage" as in Adam and Eve. "learn in silence" has to do with a synagogue/church where women were on one side or in the back as also dictated in Corinthians (same issue)

1 Corinthians 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Not that they couldn't learn but in the Corinthian church there was such disorder that having women speak from one side of the aisle to the other so "learn at home" was the direction.

Later in years, women learned and became pastors.

16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

This is a great supportive scripture... Not only is Phebe mentioned but Priscilla was mentioned before her husband (she taught Apollos) and naming her first gives the understanding that she was the leader at her home church.

Interesting, thanks for that.

But if women were allowed to teach, why not simply say that "women" should teach on the women side of the church and not yell like crazy if that were an issue?

I don't see why that distinction should be made, it could simply say something like:

As women and man a separated in the church, so shall each of them receive teaching from one of similar gender.. or whatever? why point out that the women /wife should not be allowed? And why shouldn't they show authority over men, that still doesn't make sense.

If this were meant to be equal, there ought to be no reason for the distinction.. its like when God say that you should not eat the blood of an animal, he doesn't specifically say that both men and women shouldn't do it, it simply that you should not do it, because it is holy.

 

[Kenny]

God doesn't have a Mother?? hmmm.....

Interesting, for over 1500 years, every Christian Church on the face of the earth believed he does.

That means , you are smarter than all the Christians on earth for over 1500 years.

OMG! I'm so fortunate! I'm having a conversation with a guy more holy than Mother Teresa and every Pope! Wow!

And nice to meet you too.

And, of course, Luther didn't correct the Catholic Church for the wrong interpretation?

Let me see if you have your logic straight...

Before God there was.... nothing... but He has a mother before him?

Yes... very logical.

Maybe you should say "Mary, carrier of Jesus and acting as surrogate mother"?

 

[Kenny]

Interesting, thanks for that.

But if women were allowed to teach, why not simply say that "women" should teach on the women side of the church and not yell like crazy if that were an issue?

I don't see why that distinction should be made, it could simply say something like:

As women and man a separated in the church, so shall each of them receive teaching from one of similar gender.. or whatever? why point out that the women /wife should not be allowed? And why shouldn't they show authority over men, that still doesn't make sense.

If this were meant to be equal, there ought to be no reason for the distinction.. its like when God say that you should not eat the blood of an animal, he doesn't specifically say that both men and women shouldn't do it, it simply that you should not do it, because it is holy.

Because women hadn't been taught the Torah and weren't in a position to start at that time. There was also culture involved, tradition and customs from many nations. In the Jewish culture, women were in a different section and gentiles in a third.

Jesus eliminated the wall of separation but this new understanding had to evolve.

I'm sure you will let me know if additional explanation will help

 

[Spiderman]

And nice to meet you too.

And, of course, Luther didn't correct the Catholic Church for the wrong interpretation?

Let me see if you have your logic straight...

Before God there was.... nothing... but He has a mother before him?

Yes... very logical.

Maybe you should say "Mary, carrier of Jesus and acting as surrogate mother"?

If God wants to create his own Mother, be born by her, call her mom, he obviously is capable of doing so, which every Christian Church on earth believed this for over 1500 years, and you know better through pride , with a destructive man mad heresy called "Solascriptura" that harmed Christianity more than anything, that even the Bible doesn't support.

***mod edit***

 

[Kenny]

If God wants to create his own Mother, be born by her, call her mom, he obviously is capable of doing so, which every Christian Church on earth believed this for over 1500 years, and you know better through pride , with a destructive man mad heresy called "Solascriptura" that harmed Christianity more than anything, that even the Bible doesn't support.

***mod edit***

Source? Other than your personal inventive capacity?

Jesus said, "Who is my mother, who are my brothers and sisters? Those who do the will of the Father"

PS... Don't follow me, follow Jesus Christ

 

[Nimos]

Because women hadn't been taught the Torah and weren't in a position to start at that time. There was also culture involved, tradition and customs from many nations. In the Jewish culture, women were in a different section and gentiles in a third.

Jesus eliminated the wall of separation but this new understanding had to evolve.

I'm sure you will let me know if additional explanation will help

But some women were taught in it? Those you mentioned? So besides those 5-6 none were able to teach it in those 20-35 years or how old he was when Jesus lived?

Was that because there weren't any interest in teaching the women, because I assume they knew the law just as well as the average man did?

 

[Kenny]

But some women were taught in it? Those you mentioned? So besides those 5-6 none were able to teach it in those 20-35 years or how old he was when Jesus lived?

Was that because there weren't any interest in teaching the women, because I assume they knew the law just as well as the average man did?

At this point, I would only be offering a personal viewpoint but certainly great in depth questions.

There isn't "a list" just on this topic so we can only understand principles. Things like "In Christ there is neither male nor female" and "God gives the gifts as He pleases".

I'm sure many more were teaching but the Bible isn't a compendium on exactly who were the list of teachers. They nominated deaconesses - but doesn't give a list of names.

I'm sure there was a BIG counter to having women teach (old habits are hard to change) just as there was a BIG counter to having Gentiles enter into a Jewish message.. Everything was being challenged.

Then we have the issue of just how to do life and still learn. Remember, no electric, no washing machines, no sewing machines. I would just assume time was at a premium. (It took Jesus 2 years of non-stop teaching and living together just for the 12 to learn.)

you can check with our Jewish friends, but i don't believe the women learned the Torah like the men did so I don't think they knew the law as much as the average man. (I could be mistaken but that is what I understand).

So, time, chaining of the guards (so to speak), new ways... the big boat took time to turn.