Racism in Scripture! Why do people deny it?

[Nimos]

At this point, I would only be offering a personal viewpoint but certainly great in depth questions.

There isn't "a list" just on this topic so we can only understand principles. Things like "In Christ there is neither male nor female" and "God gives the gifts as He pleases".

I'm sure many more were teaching but the Bible isn't a compendium on exactly who were the list of teachers. They nominated deaconesses - but doesn't give a list of names.

I'm sure there was a BIG counter to having women teach (old habits are hard to change) just as there was a BIG counter to having Gentiles enter into a Jewish message.. Everything was being challenged.

Then we have the issue of just how to do life and still learn. Remember, no electric, no washing machines, no sewing machines. I would just assume time was at a premium. (It took Jesus 2 years of non-stop teaching and living together just for the 12 to learn.)

you can check with our Jewish friends, but i don't believe the women learned the Torah like the men did so I don't think they knew the law as much as the average man. (I could be mistaken but that is what I understand).

So, time, chaining of the guards (so to speak), new ways... the big boat took time to turn.

I don't know, I think your explanation is good. But I agree, that its difficult to know exactly how it was... I do however think that its wrong to think that they were completely equal. First of all, as you say that the women were taught as the men was, im not talking the average farmer, im talking those that ended up teaching the law, Pharisees etc. I don't recall any women being mentioned as being such in the bible.

And given that this were the law, I would consider it much like when women in modern day at least weren't allowed to vote and that to me is enough to conclude that it is definitely not an equal society and that one can say that it was male dominated. Wouldn't you agree with that?

 

[loverofhumanity]

The argument here is not: "does the Bible promote racism?"

OF COURSE IT PROMOTES RACISM!

That is so obvious, it isn't even up for debate.

Just because the New Testament contains a few words of equality amongst "gentile, Jew, Greek, slave, free, man , woman etc. " There are many verses that say the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Not to mention, how you behave, and what your destiny and inclinations are going to be, according to different passages in Scripture, depend on how blessed or cursed the blood line is that you descend from, and who your ancestors are.

Depending on how much God doesn't like a group in Scripture, he sometimes wipes them out or kills their first born with an Angel of death, or punishes everyone with plagues, or drowns practically everyone, depending on what portion of Scripture you are reading.

(Speaking of flooding, I got caught in damn rapids I thought would push me down stream. Instead the rapids sucked me towards the damn, and everywhere I swam, rapids kept pushing me back to the same location. I called out for help, nobody was around. Everywhere I swam, the rapids kept pushing me to the same location. Something eventually told me to go to the bottom and start kicking off the rocks. Eventually I did that enough times, that I made it far enough downstream, that the rapids kept pushing me eventually to land.

By the time I reached land, I was so exhausted and oxygen deprived, that I was blind for a period of time (could not see), extremely nauseous, stumbling around sick, and I had a splitting headache that lasted the rest of the day. Drowning is an extremely frightening, miserable, scary way to die! And yet God drowned the world, including babies, children, and pregnant women. It's extremely mean and cruel!)

The descendants of ham were cursed by Noah, to serve the descendants of Noah's other brothers, for a silly "crime" they were innocent of, making it atrocious for Noah to place the curse, and even more despicable, cruel, and unjust, for an all powerful God to ratify and execute the curse!

Because of the Geographic location where descendants of Ham settled, people have used Scripture to justify slavery.

Granted, hundreds of thousands of Christians were abolitionists, and my hat goes off to them, but Jesus was not a slave abolitionist, and the New Testament justifies slavery, telling slaves "obey your masters".

God clearly, in Scripture, will bless one group of people, and their descendants, and favor them, and curse another. It's why I converted to Shinto, where there are no inerrant Scriptures, no known founder, the only Doctrine is "belief in the Kami (God , Spirits, 90% of the world roughly believes in Kami, so nothing to argue about in Shinto), no inerrant prophets, (and the highest Kami in Shinto is a cute sweet female, lady of light and sunshine, who grew to be greater and more venerated than her maker), because obviously Scripture contains error, and so do Prophets, and the creator is out to lunch, racist, and not nice!

At least if we judge by Scripture!

So tell me though, why do people who believe Scripture is without error, still claim to this day it is NOT racist? Why refuse to identify the obvious??

It is forbidden you to trade in slaves, be they men or women. It is not for him who is himself a servant to buy another of God’s servants, and this hath been prohibited in His Holy Tablet. Thus, by His mercy, hath the commandment been recorded by the Pen of justice. Let no man exalt himself above another; all are but bondslaves before the Lord, and all exemplify the truth that there is none other God but Him. – The Most Holy Book.

Baha’u’llah’s Law Abolishing Slavery

God has never condoned slavery, but according to man’s capacity, abolished it progressively by first mentioning the need for rights, then outright abolishment in the 19th century by Baha’u’llah.

 

[Spiderman]

And nice to meet you too.

And, of course, Luther didn't correct the Catholic Church for the wrong interpretation?

Let me see if you have your logic straight...

Before God there was.... nothing... but He has a mother before him?

Yes... very logical.

Maybe you should say "Mary, carrier of Jesus and acting as surrogate mother"?

He had a biological earthly mother at the nativity, one mother who nursed, breastfed God, one mother who gave birth to God, one mother the Angel said "Hail full of grace, rejoice highly favored one". Scripture calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord" google "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", Scripture says "all generations shall call Mary blessed", the hail Mary is a Biblical prayer.

You teach erroneous Doctrines that seem to deny the Divinity of Christ, which the Bible says otherwise.

It means you cannot be trusted, you are teaching dangerous Doctrines that were not part of Christianity for over 1500 years , and divide and confuse Christians. Just what Satan wants , you divide the flock so Satan can conquer.

Solascriptura is man made, toxic, dangerous, and not found in Scripture.

You read Scripture with blinders on and despise the Church Jesus founded.

 

[Spiderman]

@KenS
Mary was at the foot of the cross with Christ. Jesus told John, "son behold thy mother."

Scripture says in revelation, a sign in the sky, a woman standing on the Moon, clothed with the Sun, on her head a crown of stars. The woman is the mother of those who follow God's commandments. She battles the Dragon. Revelation 12. The Mother of God.

You choose to reject the truth and teach Unbiblical Solascriptura unchristian Doctrine! Very bad for Christianity. It divides and confuses Christians. You despise the Church , that gave you your Bible.

You claim to be a friend of Christ, and you despise his bride, the Church. SCRIPTURE says, "if they do not listen to the Church, let them be to you a Pagan or tax collector".

 

[rational experiences]

The bible old information human caused looked at by a new theist who write evidence.

Of course it owns racism as bullies men had to enslave by family tribal human to build civilization then built science that nearly destroyed life.

The review a human theist studying the old human theist scientist brothers.

Write the bible about how men of science lied claiming men were gods.

As they put themselves on thrones claiming hierarchy over all family.

In the past grand or great grand parents were our leaders...not kings or Queens.

 

[rational experiences]

Human natural spirit history natural life is no theory of a human science liar brother satanist theist.

Parents spirit was first in the eternal came across from eternal separately each and entered earths heavens at ground. Mass water held in bio life support nature garden oxygenated to live as biology.

Mother was our human father's mother first spiritually without sex as she was still coming out of the eternal. Her communicating life body entered his body. Kept him safe. Historic.

The earth's cold immaculate gas heavens came out of a volcano historic. Cooled was then non burning.

Sun burst set it back alight liars is not human history.

Imaged design machine by body mind designer human caused unnatural feedback. From human ground water losses took burning gas in an enlarged mass heavens. Burning.

Moon is a sun asteroid it began historic to burn losing its cold gases because of your satanic science.

As you were applying the sun sciences yourselves.

When a human said the Christ gases are part of human life support you don't burn them out by anti do you.

You are not the Christ gases the CH gases are CH only gases. You had to preach life owned them so science would stop using them. The reason to preach false doctrine human science.

If you thought by non indoctrination.

Image by human the designer was caused only. Fake.

 

[Clara Tea]

That is a great question... but why stop there? The Poles almost 6 million Rwanda? WWI, et al?

Of course, you will have every answer in the rainbow spectrum... but here is my take as I read scripture:

God gave mankind to man and also gave him free will. I we were to ask "why didn't He stop the WWII Holocaust, we would then have Him also stop WW!, abuse, slave trade et al. Basically eliminating free-will. We would all be puppets and He, then, would be a liar when He said He gave man the dominion.

Parents love their children but can't stop them from shooting drugs, murdering, lying et al.

When we say "Chosen ones", one has to ask "Chosen for what"?!

Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

They were chosen for the office of a priesthood. Priests to whom? The world!!

We are "all chosen" but different offices or purpose. Not more than, not less than, just a different office. There is no exception of people for God.

There is just the human race

I sometimes wonder if the afterlife is merely locking us up with people like ourselves. The hellish are surrounded by the hellish, and the angelic are surrounded by the angelic. I ponder what the afterlife would be like if the temperatures were identical. So, I ponder how life in hell would be if it was a long hall with food on a top shelf, and the only way to get that food is to cooperate. I supposed that fights would break out in hell, but in heaven, people (that is, souls) would be boosting each other up to get the food, while in hell, everyone would starve.

God, I believe, doesn't help us (doesn't answer prayers, doesn't take away suffering from cancer patients). Rather, God instructs us how to handle grief, loss, hunger, etc. So, God is still useful even if he doesn't answer prayers.

 

[Clara Tea]

I don't know, I think your explanation is good. But I agree, that its difficult to know exactly how it was... I do however think that its wrong to think that they were completely equal. First of all, as you say that the women were taught as the men was, im not talking the average farmer, im talking those that ended up teaching the law, Pharisees etc. I don't recall any women being mentioned as being such in the bible.

And given that this were the law, I would consider it much like when women in modern day at least weren't allowed to vote and that to me is enough to conclude that it is definitely not an equal society and that one can say that it was male dominated. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Sufferage is an oxymoron, in that suffering is what one does when one cannot get one's way, and voting is a way to get what one wants.

Mary Magdelene was one notable woman in the bible.

Women were property in biblical times. So the modern bible doesn't afford women many rights.

 

[Kenny]

He had a biological earthly mother at the nativity, one mother who nursed, breastfed God, one mother who gave birth to God, one mother the Angel said "Hail full of grace, rejoice highly favored one". Scripture calls Mary "The Mother of my Lord" google "who am I that the mother of my Lord should visit me", Scripture says "all generations shall call Mary blessed", the hail Mary is a Biblical prayer.

You teach erroneous Doctrines that seem to deny the Divinity of Christ, which the Bible says otherwise.

It means you cannot be trusted, you are teaching dangerous Doctrines that were not part of Christianity for over 1500 years , and divide and confuse Christians. Just what Satan wants , you divide the flock so Satan can conquer.

Solascriptura is man made, toxic, dangerous, and not found in Scripture.

You read Scripture with blinders on and despise the Church Jesus founded.

Any excuse is a good excuse if you don't want Jesus.

I didn't deny the Divinity of Christ (where did you get that idea?) Mary was the favored one for sure. And Mary did carry The Word made flesh. And, yes, she did nurse him and take care of him... she carried "Jesus".

So for one who says he is Shinto, I don't quite think you are the person to tell me what the Bible means and says.

Remember,
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

When you can figure out what that means and apply it correctly, then maybe we can have a correct conversation.

 

[Kenny]

@KenS
Mary was at the foot of the cross with Christ. Jesus told John, "son behold thy mother."

At least you got that right

Scripture says in revelation, a sign in the sky, a woman standing on the Moon, clothed with the Sun, on her head a crown of stars. The woman is the mother of those who follow God's commandments. She battles the Dragon. Revelation 12. The Mother of God.

OK... so do search... find me one scripture that says "MOTHER OF GOD". If you can find me one scripture that says that, you will convert me. Not mother of my Lord (which is totally different in context and meaning but MOTHER OF GOD

OK... convert me

You choose to reject the truth and teach Unbiblical Solascriptura unchristian Doctrine! Very bad for Christianity. It divides and confuses Christians. You despise the Church , that gave you your Bible.

You claim to be a friend of Christ, and you despise his bride, the Church. SCRIPTURE says, "if they do not listen to the Church, let them be to you a Pagan or tax collector".

LOL... do you always invent things? Oh wait, that is what you have been doing. Show me where I have despise The Church.

So, the very person who said the Bible contradicts itself, is racist, can't be trusted, is now trying to defend it. interesting... reminds me of a verse:

For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Maybe there is a key for change and a better future for you in that verse

One thing for sure, Jesus still loves you, still died for you and is still looking down the road for his son to come back home.

 

[Kenny]

I sometimes wonder if the afterlife is merely locking us up with people like ourselves. The hellish are surrounded by the hellish, and the angelic are surrounded by the angelic. I ponder what the afterlife would be like if the temperatures were identical. So, I ponder how life in hell would be if it was a long hall with food on a top shelf, and the only way to get that food is to cooperate. I supposed that fights would break out in hell, but in heaven, people (that is, souls) would be boosting each other up to get the food, while in hell, everyone would starve.

God, I believe, doesn't help us (doesn't answer prayers, doesn't take away suffering from cancer patients). Rather, God instructs us how to handle grief, loss, hunger, etc. So, God is still useful even if he doesn't answer prayers.

I'm sure that the both of us can't imagine what Heaven is like and certainly there are so many viewpoints of what Hell will be like, if it is temporal, if it is eternal, if it is real or not.

Though I do desire more answered prayers we still have seen cancer patience healed to doctors amazement, prayers answered, removes the pain of the past, et al. I know Jesus didn't heal all people and remove all suffering but wherever He did go most were delivered.

He also demonstrated how the human will could actually stop the capacity to heal and produce miracles.

I wonder if we all really understand the power of the human will.

Great thought, Clara Tea.

 

[Spiderman]

Any excuse is a good excuse if you don't want Jesus.

I didn't deny the Divinity of Christ (where did you get that idea?) Mary was the favored one for sure. And Mary did carry The Word made flesh. And, yes, she did nurse him and take care of him... she carried "Jesus".

So for one who says he is Shinto, I don't quite think you are the person to tell me what the Bible means and says.

Remember,
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

When you can figure out what that means and apply it correctly, then maybe we can have a correct conversation.

Shinto is simply belief in Kami (spirits, Angels, God. Christians in Japan call God Kami.) There is a tomb for Jesus in Japan that Shinto adherents go to, to pray to and pay homage to Jesus Christ.

I doubt an Incarnation of Christ went to Japan, and got buried there, as they claim, but Shinto doesn't force anyone to believe in it to be Shinto, or force Dogma with threat of eternal damnation.

The Dogmas of Shinto , you already believe in (belief in Kami. Jesus and his Father are Kami). So, it is compatible with Christianity.

Shinto is the only major state Religion I know of, without a known founder. For all we know, God could have founded it, inspired it as part of the destiny of humanity!

And you believe Mary gave birth to God , nursed God, and Scripture calls her "mother of my Lord", and even mother of those who follow God's commandments, and all generations will call her blessed. Yet you say she isn't "Mother of God."

You contradict yourself and every Christian Church on earth for over 1500 years, that gave you your Bible. You are not making sense!

 

[Messianic Israelite]

The argument here is not: "does the Bible promote racism?"

OF COURSE IT PROMOTES RACISM!

That is so obvious, it isn't even up for debate.

Just because the New Testament contains a few words of equality amongst "gentile, Jew, Greek, slave, free, man , woman etc. " There are many verses that say the EXACT OPPOSITE!

Not to mention, how you behave, and what your destiny and inclinations are going to be, according to different passages in Scripture, depend on how blessed or cursed the blood line is that you descend from, and who your ancestors are.

Depending on how much God doesn't like a group in Scripture, he sometimes wipes them out or kills their first born with an Angel of death, or punishes everyone with plagues, or drowns practically everyone, depending on what portion of Scripture you are reading.

(Speaking of flooding, I got caught in damn rapids I thought would push me down stream. Instead the rapids sucked me towards the damn, and everywhere I swam, rapids kept pushing me back to the same location. I called out for help, nobody was around. Everywhere I swam, the rapids kept pushing me to the same location. Something eventually told me to go to the bottom and start kicking off the rocks. Eventually I did that enough times, that I made it far enough downstream, that the rapids kept pushing me eventually to land.

By the time I reached land, I was so exhausted and oxygen deprived, that I was blind for a period of time (could not see), extremely nauseous, stumbling around sick, and I had a splitting headache that lasted the rest of the day. Drowning is an extremely frightening, miserable, scary way to die! And yet God drowned the world, including babies, children, and pregnant women. It's extremely mean and cruel!)

The descendants of ham were cursed by Noah, to serve the descendants of Noah's other brothers, for a silly "crime" they were innocent of, making it atrocious for Noah to place the curse, and even more despicable, cruel, and unjust, for an all powerful God to ratify and execute the curse!

Because of the Geographic location where descendants of Ham settled, people have used Scripture to justify slavery.

Granted, hundreds of thousands of Christians were abolitionists, and my hat goes off to them, but Jesus was not a slave abolitionist, and the New Testament justifies slavery, telling slaves "obey your masters".

God clearly, in Scripture, will bless one group of people, and their descendants, and favor them, and curse another. It's why I converted to Shinto, where there are no inerrant Scriptures, no known founder, the only Doctrine is "belief in the Kami (God , Spirits, 90% of the world roughly believes in Kami, so nothing to argue about in Shinto), no inerrant prophets, (and the highest Kami in Shinto is a cute sweet female, lady of light and sunshine, who grew to be greater and more venerated than her maker), because obviously Scripture contains error, and so do Prophets, and the creator is out to lunch, racist, and not nice!

At least if we judge by Scripture!

So tell me though, why do people who believe Scripture is without error, still claim to this day it is NOT racist? Why refuse to identify the obvious??

.
Hi Spiderman. Good afternoon. The Bible isn't racist in the conventional sense. In the Hebrew Scriptures, there is an emphasis on keeping the Israelites separate from the nations, because as Wildswanderer has said, the goyim (gentiles) worshiped other deities which would act as thorns in the eyes of those who accepted them (Numbers 33:55). We understand this as blinding the people. Yahshua explained that those who didn't have faith in Him were blind. Even if the gentiles did not worship conventional idols, they would be given to place other things, such as materialism, in place of the worship of Yahweh. Yahweh doesn't change. He wants His people to be pure. He has commanded in His Law that we destroy the false images and pagan worship of the nations so these don't infiltrate us and contaminate our worship. Yahweh is extremely loving. He wants to ensure His people can have salvation.

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 33:52 - American Standard Version

Wildswanderer has also correctly given you the response that Yahweh is not a respecter of persons. This is actually found both in the Laws of Yahweh and in the New Testament. You can read Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 28:21 and Romans 2:11. Why do you avoid these plain scriptures Spiderman?

Haven't you read Acts 10:27? The instance where Peter sees the vision of the sheet coming down from heaven with all unclean creatures in it and he was told to rise and eat them is often used as a scripture by Chr-stians to excuse them from keeping the dietary laws but the true interpretation of that dream is found in verse 27:"And as he talked with him, he went in, and findeth many come together: 28 and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath Yahweh showed that I should not call any man common or unclean".

Yahweh through Yahshua accepted gentiles in to the faith. All, regardless of background, can find shelter under the saving blood of Yahshua the Messiah, regardless, or have you not read Colosians 3:11 "where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Yahshua is all, and in all." Even in Yahshua's own genealogy, which you might expect to be "pure" by your standards, Rahab is found, and also Ruth the Moabitess. These people were righteous people.

Ken S has explained to you this with other angles. I feel you may be allowing your bitterness with Yahweh to blind you regarding Yahweh's character. Yahweh made man in His image, not the other way round. Seeing Yahweh as racist is putting your own image upon Yahweh. If we want to understand Yahweh's character, we have harmonize the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and see the image of Yahweh through the Word.

The Jews have an advantage because their forefathers were righteous. Abraham was full of good deeds. Or haven't you read? "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of Yahweh." Is that fair that one group of people were blessed in this way? Yes it's fair! Because they accepted Yahweh. But Yahweh is not a respector of persons. All are equal before the Law of Yahweh. All will be judged according to the Law of Yahweh by Yahshua the Messiah. All can be saved, regardless of race, through Yahshua's life saving blood. Therefore, how can you say that Yahweh or the Bible is racist? Yahweh is against sin. He is for all nations keeping His Laws. Or haven't you read Zechariah 14:18. that those nations who do not keep Yahweh's holy days, in this case, the Feast of Tabernacles, in the Kingdom, will be cursed with no rain.

If Yahweh was racist as mankind can be, hating other races for no discernible reasons, he would have wiped the races that he disliked out. He wouldn't have offered them salvation. Yahshua my Savior proved that Yahweh loved the entire world, and wanted to give all the opportunity to be saved.

 

[Spiderman]

.
Hi Spiderman. Good afternoon. The Bible isn't racist in the conventional sense. In the Hebrew Scriptures, there is an emphasis on keeping the Israelites separate from the nations, because as Wildswanderer has said, the goyim (gentiles) worshiped other deities which would act as thorns in the eyes of those who accepted them (Numbers 33:55). We understand this as blinding the people. Yahshua explained that those who didn't have faith in Him were blind. Even if the gentiles did not worship conventional idols, they would be given to place other things, such as materialism, in place of the worship of Yahweh. Yahweh doesn't change. He wants His people to be pure. He has commanded in His Law that we destroy the false images and pagan worship of the nations so these don't infiltrate us and contaminate our worship. Yahweh is extremely loving. He wants to ensure His people can have salvation.

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 33:52 - American Standard Version

Wildswanderer has also correctly given you the response that Yahweh is not a respecter of persons. This is actually found both in the Laws of Yahweh and in the New Testament. You can read Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 28:21 and Romans 2:11. Why do you avoid these plain scriptures Spiderman?

Haven't you read Acts 10:27? The instance where Peter sees the vision of the sheet coming down from heaven with all unclean creatures in it and he was told to rise and eat them is often used as a scripture by Chr-stians to excuse them from keeping the dietary laws but the true interpretation of that dream is found in verse 27:"And as he talked with him, he went in, and findeth many come together: 28 and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath Yahweh showed that I should not call any man common or unclean".

Yahweh through Yahshua accepted gentiles in to the faith. All, regardless of background, can find shelter under the saving blood of Yahshua the Messiah, regardless, or have you not read Colosians 3:11 "where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Yahshua is all, and in all." Even in Yahshua's own genealogy, which you might expect to be "pure" by your standards, Rahab is found, and also Ruth the Moabitess. These people were righteous people.

Ken S has explained to you this with other angles. I feel you may be allowing your bitterness with Yahweh to blind you regarding Yahweh's character. Yahweh made man in His image, not the other way round. Seeing Yahweh as racist is putting your own image upon Yahweh. If we want to understand Yahweh's character, we have harmonize the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and see the image of Yahweh through the Word.

The Jews have an advantage because their forefathers were righteous. Abraham was full of good deeds. Or haven't you read? "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of Yahweh." Is that fair that one group of people were blessed in this way? Yes it's fair! Because they accepted Yahweh. But Yahweh is not a respector of persons. All are equal before the Law of Yahweh. All will be judged according to the Law of Yahweh by Yahshua the Messiah. All can be saved, regardless of race, through Yahshua's life saving blood. Therefore, how can you say that Yahweh or the Bible is racist? Yahweh is against sin. He is for all nations keeping His Laws. Or haven't you read Zechariah 14:18. that those nations who do not keep Yahweh's holy days, in this case, the Feast of Tabernacles, in the Kingdom, will be cursed with no rain.

If Yahweh was racist as mankind can be, hating other races for no discernible reasons, he would have wiped the races that he disliked out. He wouldn't have offered them salvation. Yahshua my Savior proved that Yahweh loved the entire world, and wanted to give all the opportunity to be saved.

You are simply wrong.

You ignore Scriptures too. Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ??? If not, Jesus said you are dead Spiritually, have no life in you!

The Bible deceives, confuses, and divides, and no where does the Bible say the Bible is to be a final authority on anything.

The Bible is full of contradictions, saying "there is not man or woman", then saying women shall not speak in Church or teach!

You said God never changes. That is a complete falsehood.

Scripture says God feels sorry and even says "God repented , changed his mind about the evil he planned on doing to Israel". Google it! It is a Biblical fact that an intercessor can get God to change his mind!

The Bible even says God creates evil!

Please get your facts straight. It is a historical fact that the early Christians were not Bible Christians.

Using Scripture as a final authority is a man made, pathetic, Unbiblical, toxic, misleading, destructive, heretical tool of Satan to divide, weaken, and confuse the flock, to conquer it!

It's the worst thing to ever afflict Christianity!

 

[Spiderman]

.
Hi Spiderman. Good afternoon. The Bible isn't racist in the conventional sense. In the Hebrew Scriptures, there is an emphasis on keeping the Israelites separate from the nations, because as Wildswanderer has said, the goyim (gentiles) worshiped other deities which would act as thorns in the eyes of those who accepted them (Numbers 33:55). We understand this as blinding the people. Yahshua explained that those who didn't have faith in Him were blind. Even if the gentiles did not worship conventional idols, they would be given to place other things, such as materialism, in place of the worship of Yahweh. Yahweh doesn't change. He wants His people to be pure. He has commanded in His Law that we destroy the false images and pagan worship of the nations so these don't infiltrate us and contaminate our worship. Yahweh is extremely loving. He wants to ensure His people can have salvation.

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 33:52 - American Standard Version

Wildswanderer has also correctly given you the response that Yahweh is not a respecter of persons. This is actually found both in the Laws of Yahweh and in the New Testament. You can read Leviticus 19:15, Proverbs 28:21 and Romans 2:11. Why do you avoid these plain scriptures Spiderman?

Haven't you read Acts 10:27? The instance where Peter sees the vision of the sheet coming down from heaven with all unclean creatures in it and he was told to rise and eat them is often used as a scripture by Chr-stians to excuse them from keeping the dietary laws but the true interpretation of that dream is found in verse 27:"And as he talked with him, he went in, and findeth many come together: 28 and he said unto them, Ye yourselves know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to join himself or come unto one of another nation; and yet unto me hath Yahweh showed that I should not call any man common or unclean".

Yahweh through Yahshua accepted gentiles in to the faith. All, regardless of background, can find shelter under the saving blood of Yahshua the Messiah, regardless, or have you not read Colosians 3:11 "where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Yahshua is all, and in all." Even in Yahshua's own genealogy, which you might expect to be "pure" by your standards, Rahab is found, and also Ruth the Moabitess. These people were righteous people.

Ken S has explained to you this with other angles. I feel you may be allowing your bitterness with Yahweh to blind you regarding Yahweh's character. Yahweh made man in His image, not the other way round. Seeing Yahweh as racist is putting your own image upon Yahweh. If we want to understand Yahweh's character, we have harmonize the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and see the image of Yahweh through the Word.

The Jews have an advantage because their forefathers were righteous. Abraham was full of good deeds. Or haven't you read? "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much every way: first of all, that they were intrusted with the oracles of Yahweh." Is that fair that one group of people were blessed in this way? Yes it's fair! Because they accepted Yahweh. But Yahweh is not a respector of persons. All are equal before the Law of Yahweh. All will be judged according to the Law of Yahweh by Yahshua the Messiah. All can be saved, regardless of race, through Yahshua's life saving blood. Therefore, how can you say that Yahweh or the Bible is racist? Yahweh is against sin. He is for all nations keeping His Laws. Or haven't you read Zechariah 14:18. that those nations who do not keep Yahweh's holy days, in this case, the Feast of Tabernacles, in the Kingdom, will be cursed with no rain.

If Yahweh was racist as mankind can be, hating other races for no discernible reasons, he would have wiped the races that he disliked out. He wouldn't have offered them salvation. Yahshua my Savior proved that Yahweh loved the entire world, and wanted to give all the opportunity to be saved.

My premise, anyone who has read the Bible, simply knows to be true.

Israelites made up a tiny percent of the world's population. They were a sacred bloodline, descendants of Jacob.

They were exalted above every other nation or bloodline, extremely nationalistic, extremely patriotic, extremely militant, extremely rigid laws, were extremely intolerant of minor offenses (like working on Sabbath resulting in Capital punishment), and if America were run like that, everyone would identify America a Fascist nation.

There were no votes in God's form of government. It qualified as a totalitarian military Dictatorship, absolute Monarchy, absolute Theocracy!

This ethnic group, or to be more accurate "sacred bloodline", was not to marry with other ethnicities (something known today as "racial purity", practiced by the most hated regime of the 20th century). Israelites completely annihilated other cities of people who didn't belong to that bloodline (Google genocide in the Old Testament. You will get many results).

Any time you favor one bloodline, bless and exalt them above any other bloodline, and curse other bloodlines (like the descendants of Ham), that is the same error as racism and ethnic discrimination.

God chose to reveal the truth to his chosen people, give his law to his chosen people, violently conquer land with his chosen people, write the Scriptures with his chosen people (with the exception of Luke, whom some argue was a gentile) which anyone who has read the Bible, knows this to be true.

Let me ask you, who besides the descendants of Jacob, was God revealing the truth, his law, and his precepts to? Who, other than God's chosen people, did God so bless and richly exalt, out of all people in the world?

To so richly bless and exalt the ancestors of one man, and give so little , or no grace to other people's ancestors, is discrimination, and a racist mentality. And God went so far as even curse the descendants of Ham to be slaves.

(Matt. 15:21–28; Mark 7:24–30). When the woman asks Jesus to heal her demon-possessed daughter, he says, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” The woman responds, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table,” at which point Jesus commends her faith and heals her daughter instantly. Until now,, Jesus has been racist, dismissing foreign people as “dogs.”

That is a racist mentality. To refer to a group of people, who don't have the same ancestors or ethnic backround as you, as "dogs", and your people are "Children of God", human beings, is extremely racist.

Jesus chose only people of his ethnicity to be his Apostles. Another example of discrimination and racism.

If you have read the Bible, you already know this. Otherwise, please use google!

 

[Messianic Israelite]

You are simply wrong.

You ignore Scriptures too. Do you eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ??? If not, Jesus said you are dead Spiritually, have no life in you!

The Bible deceives, confuses, and divides, and no where does the Bible say the Bible is to be a final authority on anything.

The Bible is full of contradictions, saying "there is not man or woman", then saying women shall not speak in Church or teach!

You said God never changes. That is a complete falsehood.

Scripture says God feels sorry and even says "God repented , changed his mind about the evil he planned on doing to Israel". Google it! It is a Biblical fact that an intercessor can get God to change his mind!

The Bible even says God creates evil!

Please get your facts straight. It is a historical fact that the early Christians were not Bible Christians.

Using Scripture as a final authority is a man made, pathetic, Unbiblical, toxic, misleading, destructive, heretical tool of Satan to divide, weaken, and confuse the flock, to conquer it!

It's the worst thing to ever afflict Christianity!

Hi Spiderman. Good afternoon. I do eat the flesh of Yahshua and drink his blood, yes. You're referring to John 6:56, where Yahshua refers to the Passover Memorial service. He said the bread represents his body, and the grape juice his blood. We need to injest Yahshua by doing what He did when he was on this earth. Or don't you recognise when the Passover was kept in Egypt, they ate of the Lamb that comes to save the world? Then we can receive the nutrients that He gives His people through the strengthening effect of keeping His Law. Or don't you know that Yahshua also referred to himself as the Bread of Heaven, the Manna, the What Is It, that came down out of heaven? The Israelites ate of this bread.

Women shouldn't preach. Paul taught this, but this was not anything new. The priesthood in the Hebrew Scriptures were all males. The Bible harmonizes.

The Bible does not deceive. People deceive themselves by reading in to the Word what they want it to say. They don't allow Yahweh to speak to them through the Laws of Yahweh. Yahweh doesn't change. Malachi 3:6 says so. His character remains the same. But He is able to change His mind, which gives hope to those who are in dire situations. Yahweh can turn back a decision he previously made, if he has a good enough reason to change that decision. That makes Yahweh so perfect, because He's willing to change a situation if it calls for it. Yahweh is merciful.

 

[Spiderman]

Hi Spiderman. Good afternoon. I do eat the flesh of Yahshua and drink his blood, yes. You're referring to John 6:56, where Yahshua refers to the Passover Memorial service. He said the bread represents his body, and the grape juice his blood. We need to injest Yahshua by doing what He did when he was on this earth. Or don't you recognise when the Passover was kept in Egypt, they ate of the Lamb that comes to save the world? Then we can receive the nutrients that He gives His people through the strengthening effect of keeping His Law. Or don't you know that Yahshua also referred to himself as the Bread of Heaven, the Manna, the What Is It, that came down out of heaven? The Israelites ate of this bread.

Women shouldn't preach. Paul taught this, but this was not anything new. The priesthood in the Hebrew Scriptures were all males. The Bible harmonizes.

The Bible does not deceive. People deceive themselves by reading in to the Word what they want it to say. They don't allow Yahweh to speak to them through the Laws of Yahweh. Yahweh doesn't change. Malachi 3:6 says so. His character remains the same. But He is able to change His mind, which gives hope to those who are in dire situations. Yahweh can turn back a decision he previously made, if he has a good enough reason to change that decision. That makes Yahweh so perfect, because He's willing to change a situation if it calls for it. Yahweh is merciful.

You dont know the Bible. He didn't say bread represents his body. He said it is his body.

 

[Neuropteron]

My premise, anyone who has read the Bible, simply knows to be true.

Israelites made up a tiny percent of the world's population. They were a sacred bloodline, descendants of Jacob.

They were exalted above every other nation or bloodline, extremely nationalistic, extremely patriotic, extremely militant, extremely rigid laws, were extremely intolerant of minor offenses (like working on Sabbath resulting in Capital punishment), and if America were run like that, everyone would identify America a Fascist nation.

There were no votes in God's form of government. It qualified as a totalitarian military Dictatorship, absolute Monarchy, absolute Theocracy!

This ethnic group, or to be more accurate "sacred bloodline", was not to marry with other ethnicities (something known today as "racial purity", practiced by the most hated regime of the 20th century). Israelites completely annihilated other cities of people who didn't belong to that bloodline (Google genocide in the Old Testament. You will get many results).

Any time you favor one bloodline, bless and exalt them above any other bloodline, and curse other bloodlines (like the descendants of Ham), that is the same error as racism and ethnic discrimination.

God chose to reveal the truth to his chosen people, give his law to his chosen people, violently conquer land with his chosen people, write the Scriptures with his chosen people (with the exception of Luke, whom some argue was a gentile) which anyone who has read the Bible, knows this to be true.

Let me ask you, who besides the descendants of Jacob, was God revealing the truth, his law, and his precepts to? Who, other than God's chosen people, did God so bless and richly exalt, out of all people in the world?

To so richly bless and exalt the ancestors of one man, and give so little , or no grace to other people's ancestors, is discrimination, and a racist mentality. And God went so far as even curse the descendants of Ham to be slaves.

(Matt. 15:21–28; Mark 7:24–30). When the woman asks Jesus to heal her demon-possessed daughter, he says, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” The woman responds, “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table,” at which point Jesus commends her faith and heals her daughter instantly. Until now,, Jesus has been racist, dismissing foreign people as “dogs.”

That is a racist mentality. To refer to a group of people, who don't have the same ancestors or ethnic backround as you, as "dogs", and your people are "Children of God", human beings, is extremely racist.

Jesus chose only people of his ethnicity to be his Apostles. Another example of discrimination and racism.

If you have read the Bible, you already know this. Otherwise, please use google!

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

Perhaps you remember that I asked you for "one" example.
You choose to give me at least a half a dozen.

whilst I admire your conviction, respectfully I don't agree with your premise.
At the same time I don't feel that an over-abundance of substantiative argument to support your view is conducive to a constructive discussion.

If your goal is to win an argument, I will glady accord you victory.

However, should you feel inclined to discuss my reasons for not agreeing with you, I invite you, again, to give me "one" reason for your position, or choose any one of the many reasons you've already given.

We still might not agree at the end, but perhaps, we will have experienced a positive upbuilding discussion, fullfiling the purpose of this forum.

 

[Spiderman]

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

Perhaps you remember that I asked you for "one" example.
You choose to give me at least a half a dozen.

whilst I admire your conviction, respectfully I don't agree with your premise.
At the same time I don't feel that an over-abundance of substantiative argument to support your view is conducive to a constructive discussion.

If your goal is to win an argument, I will glady accord you victory.

However, should you feel inclined to discuss my reasons for not agreeing with you, I invite you, again, to give me "one" reason for your position, or choose any one of the many reasons you've already given.

We still might not agree at the end, but perhaps, we will have experienced a positive upbuilding discussion, fullfiling the purpose of this forum.

I appreciate your noble response.

Pick my example where Jesus refers to his ethnicity as human beings (children) and foreigners as "dogs" perhaps??

 

[MyM]

Those are actually great questions so to address those questions:

1) Women teaching - translation issues:

First, and for me probably the most important, if it was the law for women not to teach then Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, and Phoebe wouldn't have been teaching and Paul would have corrected it.

So, we have to find out why to the scriptures mentioned.

1) The word for women and wives in the Greek are exactly the same so we have to look at the context. Does it mean wife or woman and does it mean man or husband because the English translation doesn't always translate accordingly.

2) Additionally, women in those days did not receive an education. The growth curve to have them catch up was immense. If but the culture of having someone to stay and take care of the children. No daycares, no both parents having a job. That wasn't the culture of that time

3) Last, in other parts of scripture, we have to remember that men and women didn't sit together in the synagogue/church. Culture. That also created a problem. (This is happening in some places even today)

Deborah, TaNaKh, was a judge. She both taught and judged - that didn't change in the advent of Jesus... it was enlarged so that in Christ, there was neither male nor female.

Priscilla, along with her husband, is someone Paul names as a “co-worker” in Christ, and in Acts 18, Priscilla teaches Apollos, a “learned man, with a thorough knowledge of scripture.” Thus, a woman was teaching a man.

The biggest issue that they wanted to address was usurping authority. The enthusiasm of their newfound faith had the pendulum swinging too far so... Timothy:

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

the context is "marriage" as in Adam and Eve. "learn in silence" has to do with a synagogue/church where women were on one side or in the back as also dictated in Corinthians (same issue)

1 Corinthians 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Not that they couldn't learn but in the Corinthian church there was such disorder that having women speak from one side of the aisle to the other so "learn at home" was the direction.

Later in years, women learned and became pastors.

16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

This is a great supportive scripture... Not only is Phebe mentioned but Priscilla was mentioned before her husband (she taught Apollos) and naming her first gives the understanding that she was the leader at her home church.

Still Jesus is not involved...It's all about Paul. You cannot pick and choose the names "assuming" to be from he or she. I don't even think the name "Priscilla was even a name back in the day"...sounds all "Greek" to me and they add and delete what they will.

(Just my opinion )

( Allah knows best