Racist Terrorist kills 9 black worshippers :(

[leibowde84]

We must remember this man doesn't represent all white people, the same if a black person shot white people in their church, we don't blame all black people, and also with cops, don't blame all cops for the very few who stuff up.

So, you would agree that we shouldn't distort this incident to say something about atheism or atheists in general, correct?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It's worse than that.......
Roof is an avowed atheist.
Some RF members absolutely refuse to recognise that atheists could be violent against religions, churches etc.
I keep telling these denialists 'don't hold your breath'...........

Can I get the source for this?
I am not saying he isn't an atheist. I think the evidence is very very very very very strong that it was racism not religion that focused his attack. But it was just interesting to see if it was an anti-theist attempting to slam a church and then sprinkled with racism. But I had yet to hear the claim that his religion was involved at all. In fact the only thing I have been able to find about that was a very knee jerk reaction of the pastor involved that this was an "attack on Christianity" prior to any of the information being released. I'm not saying he wasn't an atheist but the evidence I have seen so far suggests he was a Christian.

 

[leibowde84]

Can I get the source for this?
I am not saying he isn't an atheist. I think the evidence is very very very very very strong that it was racism not religion that focused his attack. But it was just interesting to see if it was an anti-theist attempting to slam a church and then sprinkled with racism. But I had yet to hear the claim that his religion was involved at all. In fact the only thing I have been able to find about that was a very knee jerk reaction of the pastor involved that this was an "attack on Christianity" prior to any of the information being released. I'm not saying he wasn't an atheist but the evidence I have seen so far suggests he was a Christian.

Is there any evidence that this crime was related to atheism? I mean, I understand that the kid was an "atheist", or at least I have no reason to doubt that, but I had not heard anything about the murders being motivated by religion. Please correct me if I'm wrong though, but it doesn't seem that the kid expressed any animosity towards religion as being a motivating factor.

 

[Sundance]

Dylann Roof's utterly detestable action serves to shatter the idea that the US is a “post-racial” society.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Is there any evidence that this crime was related to atheism? I mean, I understand that the kid was an "atheist", or at least I have no reason to doubt that, but I had not heard anything about the murders being motivated by religion. Please correct me if I'm wrong though, but it doesn't seem that the kid expressed any animosity towards religion as being a motivating factor.

That is why I am asking for his sources. After doing about 15 minutes worth of research I have uncovered that he does listen to Christian rock metal as it was found on his page. He has absolutely no ties to atheism that google has been able to find. The only thing even remotely tying him to any sort of "atheism" or "anti-theism" was the claims of a pastor and the comments on the pastor by fox news calling it an "attack on Christianity". This was a comment made without any facts or information except that a church was the place of the violence.

Even beyond that every single shred of evidence that we have proves definitively that it was motivated by racism. Nothing about religion was stated. Only racism. For those on this thread claiming it was both I don't see any evidence to support that at all. In fact the only evidence about the boy's religious affiliation seems to have been the small tidbits that actually suggest was a Christian of some kind.

Even within his own statements he said he wanted to start a race war. Pure and total racism. Actually a good article I read on it went into the fact that his parents didn't seem to be racist and his friends and peers told the tale that he was indoctrinated into his racist tendencies after looking to extremist websites after the Travon Martin case. This entire act seems to be result of right wing extremism over the web.

And so when I saw several other people on this thread claiming it was atheism I wanted to see their sources.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's worse than that.......
Roof is an avowed atheist.
Some RF members absolutely refuse to recognise that atheists could be violent against religions, churches etc.
I keep telling these denialists 'don't hold your breath'...........

I searched some more, & cannot find anything about Roof's religious beliefs other than the tenuous connection with Xianity via the KKK.
Where'd you get this?
What atheists here say we cannot be violently anti-religious?

 

[Flankerl]

Dylann Roof's utterly detestable action serves to shatter the idea that the US is a “post-racial” society.

That is of course a ridiculous statement. Just because individuals don't conform to the norm doesn't mean that something is shattered.
By that logic the US(and pretty much every other country) is a country where Paedophilia is okay.

 

[Sundance]

That is of course a ridiculous statement. Just because individuals don't conform to the norm doesn't mean that something is shattered.
By that logic the US(and pretty much every other country) is a country where Paedophilia is okay.

How so? I'm curious. Are you aware that Roof's action is but another instance of what's going on in the US today, and that the series of shootings or general killings of unarmed African-Americans serve to point to the fact that there's still a lot of discussion we have to do concerning race? Judging from the aforementioned, I would say that you're response to what I've posted has no grounding whatsoever in the actual state of affairs. Rather, it's a bunch of meaningless posturing. Do you honestly believe that what Dylann Roof has done is an isolated event?

 

[Revoltingest]

How so? I'm curious. Are you aware that Roof's action is but another instance of what's going on in the US today, and that the series of shootings or general killings of unarmed African-Americans serve to point to the fact that there's still a lot of discussion we have to do concerning race? Judging from the aforementioned, I would say that you're response to what I've posted has no grounding whatsoever in the actual state of affairs. Rather, it's a bunch of meaningless posturing. Do you honestly believe that what Dylann Roof has done is an isolated event?

There will always be such crimes.
The issue is not that they happen, but with what frequency.
This speaks to the larger picture of racial relations & animosity.

Another wrinkle......
Giuliani’s claim that 93 percent of black murder victims are killed by other blacks - The Washington Post

From this, one can conclude that white racists are the least of black folk's worries.

 

[Flankerl]

How so? I'm curious. Are you aware that Roof's action is but another instance of what's going on in the US today, and that the series of shootings or general killings of unarmed African-Americans serve to point to the fact that there's still a lot of discussion we have to do concerning race? Judging from the aforementioned, I would say that you're response to what I've posted has no grounding whatsoever in the actual state of affairs. Rather, it's a bunch of meaningless posturing. Do you honestly believe that what Dylann Roof has done is an isolated event?

Well do you think child abuse by paedophiles are isolated events? They tend to be far better connected than your average racist.

Again if you apply the same reasoning to child abuse by paedophiles its actually a far bigger affair than racism in the US as it crosses ethnic divide.


There will always be racists going out killing people. It will never change.

 

[The Hammer]

Except he thought Blacks were destroying America.

On his website he whines of the lack of skinheads, neo nazis and klansmen.

He was no doubt a White Nationalist and political. The unwillingness to label far right wing groups as terrorist just allows them to continue to grow.

And labeling every other attack as "terrorist" leads to a lack of distinction between what is actually a terrorist attack and what is not.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

And labeling every other attack as "terrorist" leads to a lack of distinction between what is actually a terrorist attack and what is not.

I would categorize this as a terrorist act however. I can agree with your sentiment but just not in this specific case.

 

[Nakosis]

How can this violence be overcome?
It seems racist terrorism is increasing in thr USA, spearheaded by some racists pretending to be cops. Well hey cops is supposed to protect human lifes and not to shoot unarmed guy 5times because of his colour.

I don't know if I'd call this terrorism. I imagine the motivation here was the hatred of Black folks. The killing of Black people was the desired goal, which was accomplished. Terrorism is usually not violence for the sake of violence but instead is used to accomplish some other political end.

How can racist violence be overcome?

I don't know, I suspect as long as people keep identifying themselves as one race or another some folks are going to keep finding excuses to use violence because of it.

 

[oldbadger]

Mental illness can affect any people. It just turns out that atheism does not encourage it, while theism does.

Wow!
How distorted is that...!!!! ???
I'm gobsmacked.................
Belief in God(s) can encourage mental illness.
I've just mentioned this to Mrs B, and she says 'no'........ I'd be daft even if I was an atheist. So that's that.

 

[gsa]

Wow!
How distorted is that...!!!! ???
I'm gobsmacked.................
Belief in God(s) can encourage mental illness.
I've just mentioned this to Mrs B, and she says 'no'........ I'd be daft even if I was an atheist. So that's that.

Whether or not theism can encourage mental illness, you haven't substantiated the claim that Roof was an atheist, while all available evidence points to the contrary, as I pointed out upthread. Nor have you shown that, if he was, his atheism has any relationship to his actions here. That's the much bigger problem.

 

[oldbadger]

What atheists here say we cannot be violently anti-religious?

Well, atheists keep telling me that there is no prescription stapled to their lack of belief, or outright disbelief ion God(s).
But........ hey, I'll accept that sentence.
I picked up that Rook is an avowed atheist from a Brit newspaper in the local cafe, which was why I could not staple anything to my post.
But I don't think that anybody who murders folks in a church is a believer in the same God, anyway. Unless he wanted to get dished with a slice of hellfire, etc.

 

[gsa]

I picked up that Rook is an avowed atheist from a Brit newspaper in the local cafe, which was why I could not staple anything to my post.
But I don't think that anybody who murders folks in a church is a believer in the same God, anyway. Unless he wanted to get dished with a slice of hellfire, etc.

I'm confident that thousands of years of religious warfare demonstrates that people are perfectly capable of murdering people in religious settings, particularly if they believe in a competing vision of the god(s) worshipped there. Christian Identity promotes a racist version of Christianity, and some of their doctrines were mainstream in Southern religious discourse until it became taboo to hold those beliefs.

 

[LuisDantas]

Wow!
How distorted is that...!!!! ???

Far as I know, not at all.

I'm gobsmacked.................
Belief in God(s) can encourage mental illness.

You did not notice that yet?

I've just mentioned this to Mrs B, and she says 'no'........ I'd be daft even if I was an atheist. So that's that.

Fair is fair, but really, we all ought to take the due responsibility already. Far too often dangerous attitudes are justified in the name of "belief".

 

[LuisDantas]

Well, atheists keep telling me that there is no prescription stapled to their lack of belief, or outright disbelief ion God(s).
But........ hey, I'll accept that sentence.
I picked up that Rook is an avowed atheist from a Brit newspaper in the local cafe, which was why I could not staple anything to my post.
But I don't think that anybody who murders folks in a church is a believer in the same God, anyway. Unless he wanted to get dished with a slice of hellfire, etc.

That is a very dangerous assumption to make.

 

[Aquitaine]

OP is just gloating that someone else than Muslims murdered people so he had to use the word Terrorism to make him feel better.

I'm inclined to agree with you here.