Rape Culture is Real

[Debater Slayer]

There is a reason why the ancient people covered up... we are uncovering and rape and abuse is rampant. You dont think there is some correlation there between what we see and how we think and feel?

I think the assumption that rape has to do with sexual desires that are "too strong" does far more to leverage rape culture than "uncovering," however you define that. As I see it, arguing that women should cover up to avoid rape instead of placing the entire responsibility for the crime on the rapist is a way to attempt to justify the latter's behavior, whether intentionally or not.

 

[Pegg]

You have an knack for replacing an overly simplistic view with...an overly simplistic view.

look at anything from a grass roots level and it becomes very simple.

 

[Pegg]

If you think sex is all about pleasure, you might wanna check again.

Ex. Honest sexuality strenghtens social skills and self esteem.

That what you are talking is just the thing a was pointing, overreaction to sex. It seems the word sex to you is just plain penetration. While it's much more than that.

It would be lovely if the rest of society agreed with that view... i agree with this view and thats why I believe the bible standard of monogamy and 'marriage before sex' should be adopted by everyone.

But unfortunately, this is not the way most people see it. Sex is being sold everywhere....a clear indicator that people do not view sex the way we do.

 

[Pegg]

Should partners who don't want children abstain from sex for life, then? What about those who have children but don't want to reproduce anymore?

not at all.. ..if they are in a committed monogamous relationship, then they are doing exactly what God designed them to do.

 

[Debater Slayer]

not at all.. ..if they are in a committed monogamous relationship, then they are doing exactly what God designed them to do.

How so when they would be having sex for pleasure only? Isn't that what you objected to earlier and said it caused rape to become more common?

 

[SoulDaemon]

look at anything from a grass roots level and it becomes very simple.

But these thing aren't simple. These matters require thinking, thoroughly. To go around simplifying these things, dangerous and wicked.

It's hard to debate with a person who doesn't know what the word sex means.

 

[Pegg]

How so when they would be having sex for pleasure only? Isn't that what you objected to earlier and said it caused rape to become more common?

You really can't see how monogamy can be a solution to this problem?

 

[Debater Slayer]

You really can't see how monogamy can be a solution to this problem?

What problem? Rape? No, I don't. I don't think rape has anything to do with sexual pleasure or not having enough of it, as I said earlier, which is why I find this argument unconvincing and even harmful.

If the "problem" you're referring to is having sex for pleasure only, then that still brings up the question of why you don't apply that objection to monogamous sex that has no purpose except to derive pleasure.

 

[dust1n]

Cause we all know marital rape never occurs or anything.

 

[Pegg]

What problem? Rape? No, I don't. I don't think rape has anything to do with sexual pleasure or not having enough of it, as I said earlier, which is why I find this argument unconvincing and even harmful.

If the "problem" you're referring to is having sex for pleasure only, then that still brings up the question of why you don't apply that objection to monogamous sex that has no purpose except to derive pleasure.

as simply as i can put it for you, a monogmous relationship is the only proper way to fulfill sexual desire. Its the way sanctioned by God as the creator of the sexual organs and desires.

He doesnt forbid sex for pleasure so long as it stays between two married adults.

Anything outside of this causes many problems and leads to abuse and many more problems.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Rape is just a particularly obvious and aggressive form of an abusive, misguided mindset of a predatory nature that also manifests in other ways - drug use, attachment to military or "quasi-military" behavior, attachment to the idea of lawsuits or to excess in a more general way.

It is the expression of one's will over the environment, gone way wrong and with an utter lack of wisdom or empathy.

It seems like you are talking about reasons that individuals rape, except for the quasi-military behavior. By 'Quasi-military' are you referring to cultures that stress uniformity?

 

[Debater Slayer]

as simply as i can put it for you, a monogmous relationship is the only proper way to fulfill sexual desire. Its the way sanctioned by God as the creator of the sexual organs and desires.

He doesnt forbid sex for pleasure so long as it stays between two married adults.

Anything outside of this causes many problems and leads to abuse and many more problems.

I think it's important to realize that one's religious beliefs aren't necessarily shared by most other people, nor are they reflective of actual statistics and tendencies.

On the one hand, you have stated that sex for the sole purpose of pleasure is one of the factors that make rape more common and contribute to rape culture—which is an assumption you have yet to back up with anything other than personal beliefs. But on the other hand, you have just said above that sex for pleasure only isn't the problem; it's the lack of monogamy. So it seems to me that your objection isn't based on actual statistics or studies, because it's inconsistent and appears to hinge more on whether certain religious teachings are observed than on the supposed effects of having sex for no reason other than experiencing pleasure.

And again, you have yet to back up the assertion that rape has anything to do with sexual desire. Do you have any sources to support that, or is it just an argument based on the premise that anything not conforming to a particular set of religious teachings must be the cause of crimes and abuse?

 

[Drolefille]

as simply as i can put it for you, a monogmous relationship is the only proper way to fulfill sexual desire. Its the way sanctioned by God as the creator of the sexual organs and desires.

He doesnt forbid sex for pleasure so long as it stays between two married adults.

Anything outside of this causes many problems and leads to abuse and many more problems.

But rape occurs within a marriage. And was in fact legal until very very recently. Because of the attitude that a woman owed her husband sex, because she was "his."

None of this is "solved" by monogamy.

As an aside my nonmonogamy has not led to rape, sexual abuse, or demeaning of myself as a human being.

 

[Pegg]

But rape occurs within a marriage. And was in fact legal until very very recently. Because of the attitude that a woman owed her husband sex, because she was "his."

None of this is "solved" by monogamy.

As an aside my nonmonogamy has not led to rape, sexual abuse, or demeaning of myself as a human being.

'love' and mutual 'respect' is what would solve that problem.

Gods word says that a man should love his wife as he does himself. Im sure he would never abuse himself.

 

[Debater Slayer]

'love' and mutual 'respect' is what would solve that problem.

Gods word says that a man should love his wife as he does himself. Im sure he would never abuse himself.

I don't regard the Bible as divinely inspired or even as a very reliable source of morality. Would you mind providing support for your position that actually includes statistics or studies about rape and the motivations thereof?

 

[Pegg]

I think it's important to realize that one's religious beliefs aren't necessarily shared by most other people, nor are they reflective of actual statistics and tendencies.

On the one hand, you have stated that sex for the sole purpose of pleasure is one of the factors that make rape more common and contribute to rape culture—which is an assumption you have yet to back up with anything other than personal beliefs. But on the other hand, you have just said above that sex for pleasure only isn't the problem; it's the lack of monogamy. So it seems to me that your objection isn't based on actual statistics or studies, because it's inconsistent and appears to hinge more on whether certain religious teachings are observed than on the supposed effects of having sex for no reason other than experiencing pleasure.

And again, you have yet to back up the assertion that rape has anything to do with sexual desire. Do you have any sources to support that, or is it just an argument based on the premise that anything not conforming to a particular set of religious teachings must be the cause of crimes and abuse?

most people today do not get married. They prefer to stay single and sleep with many women. Whereas, if they held to the bible moral standards, they would wait until they were married and then fulfill their sexual desire in a safe and constructive manner with someone they love.

What im trying to say is that when people only want sex for their own gratification, they are not concerned for the wellbeing of the person they choose to have sex with. And if they are not concerned for that persons wellbeing, then abuse or usury follows.

 

[Debater Slayer]

most people today do not get married. They prefer to stay single and sleep with many women. Whereas, if they held to the bible moral standards, they would wait until they were married and then fulfill their sexual desire in a safe and constructive manner with someone they love.

So people who aren't married can't love each other and care about each other's well-being?

What im trying to say is that when people only want sex for their own gratification, they are not concerned for the wellbeing of the person they choose to have sex with. And if they are not concerned for that persons wellbeing, then abuse or usury follows.

You still haven't shown what rape has to do with sexual gratification at all. As it stands, your post is talking about two completely different things and baselessly lumping them together.

 

[Pegg]

So people who aren't married can't love each other and care about each other's well-being?

sure they can, but they dont need to have sex with the person to express such care.

You still haven't shown what rape has to do with sexual gratification at all. As it stands, your post is talking about two completely different things and baselessly lumping them together.

rape can also include the act of taking advantage of someone for sex. Even the courts recognize this is a form of rape....eg if you have sex with a drunk person, and they sober up and report it to the police, you can be charged for rape.

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems like you are talking about reasons that individuals rape, except for the quasi-military behavior. By 'Quasi-military' are you referring to cultures that stress uniformity?

No, I mean the glorification of individual aggression, actually. The mindset that values "hawks" in politics, "action heroes" in fiction, and thinks nothing of what violence actually is.

 

[Drolefille]

'love' and mutual 'respect' is what would solve that problem.

Gods word says that a man should love his wife as he does himself. Im sure he would never abuse himself.

The number of drug addicts out there suggest otherwise.

I wonder why you put quotes around 'love' and 'respect' as if they aren't real?

So why must there be a marriage? If there is love and mutual respect in my relationships, what's wrong with them?

most people today do not get married. They prefer to stay single and sleep with many women.

and men.
Actually, reality is that teens and young adults are having fewer sexual partners. They're having sex, but not with more partners. They're not getting pregnant as often as they used to be either.

Whereas, if they held to the bible moral standards, they would wait until they were married and then fulfill their sexual desire in a safe and constructive manner with someone they love.

You're basically saying that if people were good they'd be good.
The people who are going to be good, are already good. The ones who were abusive have always been abusive.

As an example, whereas if everyone followed the principles of the Blessed Elua *religious figure from fiction* they would love where they willed - however many partners they liked, as long as all were pleased, and a separation was friendly and accepted. Sex is an act of worship, and one of love at the same time. Rape would be not only a crime, but blasphemy. The people who followed those laws would also "be good" because i'm defining good by setting the standard.

The thing is that not everyone who broke that standard by being monogamous -odd in this society - was necessarily bad. It is breaking the standard by harming others that is bad.
Just as not everyone who breaks the biblical standard is bad, unless in the process they're harming others. Obviously some people believe that anything outside of the standard is harm, but I don't really see that proving true.

What im trying to say is that when people only want sex for their own gratification, they are not concerned for the wellbeing of the person they choose to have sex with. And if they are not concerned for that persons wellbeing, then abuse or usury follows.

And polyamory is literally "many loves." You can't truly love someone and not want the best for them, not love them and abuse them at the same time.
So, what's bad isn't breaking the standard, it's harming others - abusing them or mistreating them.

sure they can, but they dont need to have sex with the person to express such care.

Neither do married couples. But it's a very human thing to do, isn't it? I mean, the Shakers disagreed to rather distressing results.

rape can also include the act of taking advantage of someone for sex. Even the courts recognize this is a form of rape....eg if you have sex with a drunk person, and they sober up and report it to the police, you can be charged for rape.

Because there's no consent given. You can't consent to sex if you're blackout drunk. Rape is still far more about the power differential. I will TAKE sex from you because I deserve it, and if you are drunk then you REALLY deserve to have sex taken from you. (As the courts tell the women who went to bed alone and woke up with someone on top of them, inside of them, etc. :sarcastic)