Rape culture

[freethinker44]

So I just watched a video, and the topic was that rape culture doesn't exist.

I will post the video, but I am not trying to debate the contents of the video, just the topic of rape culture. The video is just for reference because I mentioned it. Here's the video. (By the way, I want to mention I don't like the amazing atheist and generally try to avoid his videos as I disagree with pretty much everything he says. I just watched this one because I saw all the other videos on my Youtube recommended list and I wanted something quick to watch while I was eating dinner.)

[youtube]1KQQ1bzQn0k[/youtube]
There's No Rape Culture! - YouTube

Now, I watched this expecting to be thoroughly disgusted and reaffirm my distaste for the amazing atheist's videos, but he actually made some good points here. So I'll play devils advocate here and argue against rape culture. To start it off, here are a couple key points to discuss:
- blaming the victim isn't exclusive to the crime of rape
- sympathizing with the criminal isn't exclusive to rape



(on a completely unrelated note, I've noticed a trend in atheism circles where the topic is broadened to include feminism/liberalism/whatever other political/social topic. It is a little disheartening to me that popular atheism is devolving into some dogmatic agenda with little or nothing to do with atheism. Ever since "elevator-gate" atheist media has taken a nosedive. PZ Meyers, The Atheist Experience, thunderfoot, Free-thought Blogs, etc... all have just become constant bickering and agenda pushing. So sad. But that's for a different thread)

And let's try to keep it civil, eh?

 

[Me Myself]

In guayaquil, if you go to the bad part of town (unfortunately, most of it) aline with your latest i phone in full sight and full of jewels and anyone robbs you the first thing someone will ask you is where and how was it.

If you tell them it was in x part and yhat you were fully displaying your bling blings they will tell you you are an idiot

Why? Because they cant catch the person that stole from you, but they CAN advice you so you dont get stolen from again.

Now I am not saying this is the same as whatever it is that you ucall rape culture in USA, but telling someone not to take unnecessary risks is absolutely reasonable thing to do.

 

[MoonWater]

In guayaquil, if you go to the bad part of town (unfortunately, most of it) aline with your latest i phone in full sight and full of jewels and anyone robbs you the first thing someone will ask you is where and how was it.

If you tell them it was in x part and yhat you were fully displaying your bling blings they will tell you you are an idiot

Why? Because they cant catch the person that stole from you, but they CAN advice you so you dont get stolen from again.

Now I am not saying this is the same as whatever it is that you ucall rape culture in USA, but telling someone not to take unnecessary risks is absolutely reasonable thing to do.

the thing is rapes don't happen in back alleys like muggings do. Most rapes are comitted by someone the victim knows and trusts. So the idea of "don't take unnecessary risks" doesn't really apply. Nor can you blame it on "showing off your bling" (i.e. wearing skimpy clothing) because rape is about power not lust. If someone wants to rape a person they'll do it regardless of what their wearing and trying to blame it on what the person was wearing only serves to reveal how weak willed the perpetrator really is.

 

[Me Myself]

the thing is rapes don't happen in back alleys like muggings do. Most rapes are comitted by someone the victim knows and trusts. So the idea of "don't take unnecessary risks" doesn't really apply. Nor can you blame it on "showing off your bling" (i.e. wearing skimpy clothing) because rape is about power not lust. If someone wants to rape a person they'll do it regardless of what their wearing and trying to blame it on what the person was wearing only serves to reveal how weak willed the perpetrator really is.

Oh of course the victimizer cant say its the victim's fault.

About it being about power, thats a naive way of looking at it honestly.

Rape is about several things and sex tends to include those things.

You wont hear an asexual took a viagra to show that wo/man who was really the boss.

 

[freethinker44]

the thing is rapes don't happen in back alleys like muggings do. Most rapes are comitted by someone the victim knows and trusts. So the idea of "don't take unnecessary risks" doesn't really apply. Nor can you blame it on "showing off your bling" (i.e. wearing skimpy clothing) because rape is about power not lust. If someone wants to rape a person they'll do it regardless of what their wearing and trying to blame it on what the person was wearing only serves to reveal how weak willed the perpetrator really is.

How is this any different from the crime of murder though? And if it's not different, why is it a bigger deal in the crime of rape than murder? It occurs to me that a lot of the things associated with rape culture are also present in murder crimes. No one says we have a culture of murder though, no says a show like 'Dexter' encourages murder, we give it awards. But if the same show was made with a serial rapist instead of serial killer, there would be outrage. How come one is rape culture but the other is just good TV?

 

[Thana]

So premeditated rape is worse than spontaneous rape?
Right, Tell that to the chick who just got raped.
However, I see the point. Premeditated isn't worse for the girl, But it is worse in the sense that they intended/planned to do it, And the only difference between the two crimes is premeditated should have a longer sentence (as with murder)

I've actually met a few girls who've threatened their boyfriends etc by saying they would go to the police and lie about the boyfriend raping them.
That, to me, Is almost as bad as raping someone in and of itself.
You're hurting women, Who will be less inclinded to be believed, If they're surrounded by people who've been lied to about a similar crime.

When it comes to men claiming the women asked for it by how the woman dressed, I have to call absolute BS on it. I've seen many men, Who wear tight as jeans, Low neck T-shirts, However I've never in my life felt compelled to rape them, Nor have I felt that they're being asked to be raped.
It's crap, utter crap.

I totally disagree with what he was saying, It's his fault he was continuously sexually harrassed, Because he never reported it. If he had a problem, He should have reported it because men have the same rights as women. Excuses excuses.

When he was talking about the romanticising of rape, I'd have to say they've got a point.
I once searched up dark romance (As a genre for books) Thinking I'd get something like you know, Evil or hardships in the book.
However, Most of them were about rape. And not just rape, But being kidnapped, Raped, Then falling in love with said rapist.
It's insane, Especially how popular the books are.

And on the point where he was talking about how the women say no, but need to be pushed to say yes (And they eventually cave)
As an avid book reader, It's unfortunately true.
Most of the romances, The woman says no alot before she finally succumbs to the passion her body wants, but not her mind.
I have to admit, It's a little messed up how common and popular and commonly used that ploy is in romance literature.

But if you want to know the difference between a woman who wants to be chased and persuaded, and a woman who doesn't then it's this.
If she hangs around, whilst saying no, She probably wants it. If she tries to get away from you, She probably doesn't.

 

[Thana]

How is this any different from the crime of murder though? And if it's not different, why is it a bigger deal in the crime of rape than murder? It occurs to me that a lot of the things associated with rape culture are also present in murder crimes. No one says we have a culture of murder though, no says a show like 'Dexter' encourages murder, we give it awards. But if the same show was made with a serial rapist instead of serial killer, there would be outrage. How come one is rape culture but the other is just good TV?

Because there is nothing redeemable about rapists.
There is nothing mysterious or cool about them either.
They're not attractive or appealing entertainment, And offend pretty much everyone.

 

[Curious George]

How is this any different from the crime of murder though? And if it's not different, why is it a bigger deal in the crime of rape than murder? It occurs to me that a lot of the things associated with rape culture are also present in murder crimes. No one says we have a culture of murder though, no says a show like 'Dexter' encourages murder, we give it awards. But if the same show was made with a serial rapist instead of serial killer, there would be outrage. How come one is rape culture but the other is just good TV?

I disagree, we often hear that our culture is a violent culture. That our culture also promotes male over female creates a rape culture. I will watch the vid and respond, but I thought I would point out that our culture is very much called violent and even encouraging murder.

 

[freethinker44]

Because there is nothing redeemable about rapists.
There is nothing mysterious or cool about them either.
They're not attractive or appealing entertainment, And offend pretty much everyone.

What's redeemable about a serial killer, that he only kills people who deserve it? The fact that one (murder) is acceptable and even heroic in a way and the other (rape) is this absolute horrible, unredeemable crime against nature seems to suggest that we less a problem with rape culture and more a problem with murder culture (it even feels weird to say "murder culture" like it's something so completely laughable that we would have a culture of murder).

 

[DallasApple]

the thing is rapes don't happen in back alleys like muggings do. Most rapes are comitted by someone the victim knows and trusts. So the idea of "don't take unnecessary risks" doesn't really apply.

Completely.

Unless to protect your self you never get around a male at all.

 

[freethinker44]

I disagree, we often hear that our culture is a violent culture. That our culture also promotes male over female creates a rape culture. I will watch the vid and respond, but I thought I would point out that our culture is very much called violent and even encouraging murder.

I'm not really trying to discuss the video per se, more about the validity of rape culture in general. But I totally agree with you, we have a culture of violence. And I would argue that rape culture is integrated into this culture of violence. So really, responding to rape culture is pointless because we will never get rid of any real or perceived rape culture so long as our culture of violence persists. That's what we should be focused on, not rape culture.

 

[Thana]

What's redeemable about a serial killer, that he only kills people who deserve it? The fact that one (murder) is acceptable and even heroic in a way and the other (rape) is this absolute horrible, unredeemable crime against nature seems to suggest that we less a problem with rape culture and more a problem with murder culture (it even feels weird to say "murder culture" like it's something so completely laughable that we would have a culture of murder).

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why rape seems worse than murder.
I suppose because with murder, There is usually a somewhat reasonable explanation.
(Greed, revenge etc)

Whereas lust is not reasonable and easily ignored/forgotten/endured, And forcing yourself on someone is just ruining their life, Which I suppose in a sense could be worse than having no life (dying).

 

[DallasApple]

What's redeemable about a serial killer, that he only kills people who deserve it?

Also serial killers are very rare. You are more likely to get killed by getting hit by a drunk bus driver than a serial killer (well depending where you live)

 

[freethinker44]

Completely.

Unless to protect your self you never get around a male at all.

But how is this distinct from other crimes. How is this different from me not going into certain neighborhoods in Detroit solely because my skin color is different.

 

[DallasApple]

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why rape seems worse than murder.

Did someone say its "worse" ? Our laws don't reflect that . Having said that have you ever been raped?

The psychological damage is documented. Its a high crime to rape a person. I would say 2nd only to out right killing them.

 

[Thana]

Did someone say its "worse" ? Our laws don't reflect that . Having said that have you ever been raped?

The psychological damage is documented. Its a high crime to rape a person. I would say 2nd only to out right killing them.

We're talking culturally (or atleast, I am anyway)

Also, I think there must be some sort of faux pas by asking if someone has ever been raped....

 

[DallasApple]

But how is this distinct from other crimes. How is this different from me not going into certain neighborhoods in Detroit solely because my skin color is different.

Its different because the only difference is you are a girl .And it doesn't even have to be the "bad side of town".

 

[freethinker44]

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why rape seems worse than murder.
I suppose because with murder, There is usually a somewhat reasonable explanation.
(Greed, revenge etc)

I doubt a reasonable explanation would console the victims. And greed and revenge as reasonable explanations are debatable.

Whereas lust is not reasonable and easily ignored/forgotten/endured, And forcing yourself on someone is just ruining their life, Which I suppose in a sense could be worse than having no life (dying).

I'm pretty sure killing someone would ruin their life.

 

[freethinker44]

Its different because the only difference is you are a girl .And it doesn't even have to be the "bad side of town".

How is the only difference being gender different from the only difference is skin color? And also you don't have to be on the "bad side of town" to worry about being assaulted, I just used that because it was the obvious example.

 

[Thana]

I doubt a reasonable explanation would console the victims. And greed and revenge as reasonable explanations are debatable.



I'm pretty sure killing someone would ruin their life.

Really?
I'd rather someone have a reason to kill someone I loved, It would console me better than it being a random, unprovoked attack.
Eh, that's my opinion anyway.

No, There is a difference between ruining a life and ending a life.