Rape?

[MysticSang'ha]

I did not read that part about mystic. I am sorry for what happened.

I appreciate that. Thank you. :flower:

 

[Titanic]

I appreciate that. Thank you. :flower:

All the best to you and your family. I hope peace will be with you. Cheer's! p.s your my hips dont lie post was priceless.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

All the best to you and your family. I hope peace will be with you. Cheer's! p.s your my hips dont lie post was priceless.

Thank you, again. Glad you liked the "hips don't lie" comment.

I have a great family and circle of friends. I'm truly blessed. I also continue to find peace through education, peer work, and finding enjoyment through sex and my sexuality. I had the most difficult time enjoying sex when I believed rape was another form of sex. For me, understanding that criminal psychological profilers, the FBI, social psychologists, etc. define rape as having it's own category, it is much easier for me to see my sexuality in a healthy way without muddying the waters.

There are certain triggers I have continued to experience. A certain smell or light angle, and anything that involves putting somebody's hands around my neck catapult me right back to that night. But I have found mental/emotional conditioning exercises to be of immense help along with meditation and breathing exercises, and all I need to do is work through them when those moments occur. They help to remind me that it isn't happening again.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

But in both situations, the perpetrator IS showing a lack of empathy towards their partner. Even if you think you might have heard something different or only have 2 seconds to go until you finish, the moment that thought is made, a decision has to be made to either a.) ignore the consent of the other person or b.) respect the consent of the other person.

As soon as consent is disregarded, then a very fundamental difference has taken place. And since there is no real definition of "rape" or "sex," then, if anything, why shouldn't the line be drawn on the precedent of consent?

I can't imagine in one instance of "rape" in which consent has ever played a part, and if one has knowingly acted past consent, whether drunk in a dorm room or being nefarious preemptively from a van, the one "motivation" that is always present is to act upon a person regardless of their consent. It's an intention that must be present in order act upon the decision to rape someone.

:clap

Very. VERY. Well. Said.

 

[Titanic]

Your a great poster MysticSang'ha. Rape is hard to think about. To think people will actually grow up to be rapist's and serial killer's is awful. I hope better for this world and the people in it. I have said all i am going too say about rape on this thread. Peace out for realz this time.

 

[Alceste]

That's a curious way to say you are not interested on this topic.

The topic is "does anybody ever get so horny they rush out and rape somebody". The answer is no. That answer is backed by a mountain of evidence, including the evidence that virtually ALL sex offenders currently sitting in prison were also having consensual sexual relations at the time of the assault. The topic is not "Hey other heterosexual guys, let's all really think about and imagine what it feels like to actually rape a woman and reject any and all efforts to approach the subject from a victim-oriented, sociological, scientific, cultural or epidemiological perspective."

Just because this is sitting in the "sexuality" forum, God only knows why, doesn't mean it's necessarily a conversation about your personal fantasy sex life.

 

[Alceste]

I did not read that part about mystic. I am sorry for what happened.

Titanic, you are only the second guy in this entire conversation who had the balls to acknowledge her story was there at all. Keep up the good work! I have great faith in you, padawan!
:foryou:

 

[Titanic]

Titanic, you are only the second guy in this entire conversation who had the balls to acknowledge her story was there at all. Keep up the good work! I have great faith in you, padawan!
:foryou:

Thank you. I really need to read the post's more carefully.

 

[Alceste]

Your a great poster MysticSang'ha. Rape is hard to think about. To think people will actually grow up to be rapist's and serial killer's is awful. I hope better for this world and the people in it. I have said all i am going too say about rape on this thread. Peace out for realz this time.

It is an awful thought, but I feel we have to confront it. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've read books about trying to understand human evil. Books about torture, child soldiers, the FLDS polygamists, child prostitution, truth and reconciliation reports from civil wars... I'm reading a book on Native history that deals with the policy of assimilation North America pursued with regard to the indigenous people, where up to 50% of the children abducted and taken to residential schools died there.

For me, reading about this stuff robs it of its power to make me fearful. After a while, you begin to see patterns. There are huge commonalities between rape-supportive culture and the policy of assimilation, for example. Primarily, the dehumanization of victims, the perception of them as "less than", not competent to communicate or assert their self-interest, the general attitude that they are responsible for their own abuse, etc. All of this happens at a cultural level. The awfulness that happens between individuals is caused by belonging to a culture that endorses violence and indifference toward the "other". Because it is cultural, learned behavior, we can fix it. First we have to fix it in our own minds. Then we can start trying to fix it in the minds of others.

If we have learned to be violent, we can also learn to be compassionate.

You can train your brain to be more compassionate: study - Times LIVE

 

[Aquitaine]

Do you think lack of sex can ever lead to rape?

Nah, not really. To me, the desire to Rape is a perversion of the mind - the desire to dominate, humiliate and scar an unwilling person, without showing empathy or remorse. I don't believe it is a natural progression of Human sexuality, given one endures enough sexual neglect.

Lack of sex leads to masturbation, watching Prawn and reading dirty books.

EDIT: Jesus, 65 pages......

 

[Koldo]

The topic is "does anybody ever get so horny they rush out and rape somebody". The answer is no. That answer is backed by a mountain of evidence, including the evidence that virtually ALL sex offenders currently sitting in prison were also having consensual sexual relations at the time of the assault. The topic is not "Hey other heterosexual guys, let's all really think about and imagine what it feels like to actually rape a woman and reject any and all efforts to approach the subject from a victim-oriented, sociological, scientific, cultural or epidemiological perspective."

Do i need to quote you?

"I don't really give a fiddler's fart exactly what is going through the mind of any individual perpetrator of any violent assault at the exact moment of the crime."

In other words, you are not interested in what motivates a rapist to rape. You are not interested in the rationale behind the act. Which is the crux of the point.

Just because this is sitting in the "sexuality" forum, God only knows why, doesn't mean it's necessarily a conversation about your personal fantasy sex life.

Where did this come from? :areyoucra

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Nah, not really. To me, the desire to Rape is a perversion of the mind - the desire to dominate, humiliate and scar an unwilling person, without showing empathy or remorse. I don't believe it is a natural progression of Human sexuality, given one endures enough sexual neglect.

Lack of sex leads to masturbation, watching Prawn and reading dirty books.

EDIT: Jesus, 65 pages......

Prawn? Did you mean porn? Or is this what the kids are calling it these days?

 

[Aquitaine]

Prawn? Did you mean porn? Or is this what the kids are calling it these days?

Ha! I got a birthday card once which had a Prawn watching another Prawn on a fishing net, and the caption was: "Jeremy was caught watching Prawn on the Net".

Ever since then, I've had that burned into my mind whenever I hear the word "Porn". :biglaugh:

 

[Koldo]

Prawn? Did you mean porn? Or is this what the kids are calling it these days?

I think he meant to say 'pawn'.
These sexy chess little pieces...

 

[Koldo]

Ha! I got a birthday card once which had a Prawn watching another Prawn on a fishing net, and the caption was: "Jeremy was caught watching Prawn on the Net".

Ever since then, I've had that burned into my mind whenever I hear the word "Porn". :biglaugh:

Aw. You ruined my "hypothesis".

 

[Aquitaine]

Aw. You ruined my "hypothesis".

Awww, my bad! :kissbette

 

[Alceste]

Do i need to quote you?

"I don't really give a fiddler's fart exactly what is going through the mind of any individual perpetrator of any violent assault at the exact moment of the crime."

In other words, you are not interested in what motivates a rapist to rape. You are not interested in the rationale behind the act. Which is the crux of the point.



Where did this come from? :areyoucra

"Rationale"? When did we decide violent criminals are acting rationally?

Throughout this conversation I've offered MULTIPLE psychological, sociological, and cultural factors that are correlated with sexual violence. I fully understand the psychology of the average sex offender, male or female. I've offered endless studies and articles to support my assertions. I've offered multiple examples of sexual violence that have nothing to do with sex, for example Abu Ghraib, that simply don't fit into a mental framework where rape is mostly something men do to women in order to get sex. Mystic has offered a first-hand account of a real life rape and been almost completely ignored. Legal arguments are ignored. Philosophical arguments are ignored. Ethical arguments are ignored. Poisonshady has even posted cherry-picked phrases from lengthy articles about the social and psychological causes of sexual assault that he didn't even read, except to find a sentence that says something along the lines of "rape is about sex".

But no matter what any of us say, the all-heterosexual-male "rape is about sex" crowd persistently and continually pivots the conversation immediately back to trying to imagine what MIGHT be going through the mind of some HYPOTHETICAL male rapist who attacks a female in order to copulate until ejaculation.

From a psychoanalytical perspective, that's just embarrassing, guys. I mean, really. We're talking about actual rape. Not fantasy rape. Imagining what it might feel like to rape a woman has no place in this conversation. I'm not here to validate anybody's personal rape fantasies. I'm here to smash rape myths, including the myth that rape is about sex.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is more to this. The old chauvinist 'I deserve this because I'm a guy' or some such thing underlies behaviour. Somehow you feel society owes you something, so you can feel like being rude to a waitress, throwing rocks at a school, raping, whatever other stuff you can dream up. "I deserve this,", It's called entitlement. Well, sorry, but you aren't entitled, when it comes to other people on the planet being victims. There is an underlying mentality in some men of today that they deserve what they want.

I taught a student in Grade 6 who kept asking a girl to be his 'girlfriend'. She couldn't stand him, but he thought that since he liked her, he should be able to have her, even as a friend. That's where this mentality is ... at Grade 6 or so.

Now I do understand it ... in terms of anava .. the Hindu term for primal stupidity, clouded consciousness ... ruled by baser instincts. No wonder women complain there are no good men around.

You know what? The root is insecurity.

 

[Alceste]

There is more to this. The old chauvinist 'I deserve this because I'm a guy' or some such thing underlies behaviour. Somehow you feel society owes you something, so you can feel like being rude to a waitress, throwing rocks at a school, raping, whatever other stuff you can dream up. "I deserve this,", It's called entitlement. Well, sorry, but you aren't entitled, when it comes to other people on the planet being victims. There is an underlying mentality in some men of today that they deserve what they want.

I taught a student in Grade 6 who kept asking a girl to be his 'girlfriend'. She couldn't stand him, but he thought that since he liked her, he should be able to have her, even as a friend. That's where this mentality is ... at Grade 6 or so.

Now I do understand it ... in terms of anava .. the Hindu term for primal stupidity, clouded consciousness ... ruled by baser instincts. No wonder women complain there are no good men around.

You know what? The root is insecurity.

Good post. If I have one minor quibble, it's that there are loads of good men around, including yourself.

I think girls have similar difficulties accepting that others don't necessarily reciprocate their feelings. I had that problem myself. I think the difference is that since we certainly don't live in a culture of female entitlement, not receiving reciprocation was pretty much the end of the story and I just got over it. It didn't provoke a feeling of insecurity over my "femininity", social status or personal identity that could potentially lead to sexual aggression. If I approached someone and was rejected, my reaction was "Oh, OK. That's too bad." I didn't feel like it was wrong or unjust, or that I had to do something to restore my dignity. Except maybe eat some chocolate and write a stupid song about it.

 

[Koldo]

"Rationale"? When did we decide violent criminals are acting rationally?

They are not acting randomly, right?
They raped for some reason, correct?

Throughout this conversation I've offered MULTIPLE psychological, sociological, and cultural factors that are correlated with sexual violence. I fully understand the psychology of the average sex offender, male or female.

That's excellent. So, perhaps you can explain to me why a rapist rapes. Why rape specifically?

I've offered endless studies and articles to support my assertions. I've offered multiple examples of sexual violence that have nothing to do with sex, for example Abu Ghraib, that simply don't fit into a mental framework where rape is mostly something men do to women in order to get sex.

I don't disagree with this. Not all forms of rape could be considered sex.

Mystic has offered a first-hand account of a real life rape and been almost completely ignored.

Excuse me, but I don't feel like commenting on personal matters such as these on this kind of topic.

Legal arguments are ignored. Philosophical arguments are ignored. Ethical arguments are ignored. Poisonshady has even posted cherry-picked phrases from lengthy articles about the social and psychological causes of sexual assault that he didn't even read, except to find a sentence that says something along the lines of "rape is about sex".

I am not him. And please do tell me what arguments i have ignored specifically.

But no matter what any of us say, the all-heterosexual-male "rape is about sex" crowd persistently and continually pivots the conversation immediately back to trying to imagine what MIGHT be going through the mind of some HYPOTHETICAL male rapist who attacks a female in order to copulate until ejaculation.

It is not all about sex.
What the crowd is persisting on is: ''you can't say rape has nothing to do with sex ever''.