Razan Al-Najjar: Palestinian medic who saved lives shot dead by Israeli sniper

[Tumah]

How I feel about the Gaza health ministry or about the inhumane stuff in the Jewish text is of no importance to me. Rather, this discussion is about a young girl who lost her life. Whether she was **** deliberately or not (but I believe it was deliberately) is besides the issue, that is, a young medic was killed helping another person.

Her death will galvanize the very people who already hate Israel. Israel does not make its case for peace if people die by gunfire. Even if as you or others may say Hamas encourages people to place their lives in danger that is all the more reason to use non-lethal measures.

Rubber bullets, water canons, tear gas, warnings over the bull horn. Calls for negotiation or something that can mitigate death. If this keeps up Israel will further isolate itself and one day, just one day you will have a president that will relinquish ties. Israel militarily has no friends among the world super powers except the United States, ruin that relationship and Israel is fair game.

https://www.thejc.com/comment/comme...rder-now-i-am-the-one-who-is-ashamed-1.464233

 

[Shad]

Sorry.

No problem.

It is interesting that you claim "a right carries implication beyond sovereignty but international politics."

Well first off let me just eliminate specific grounding of rights. I do not follow nor accept rights created from a religious context as I do not follow any religion let alone a specific one related to Israel. This So rights from my view are created via social constructs be it a nation or the UN. So the UN, and other international organizations, are the sources of those politics. So would such organizations and/or nation become obligated to restore a nation due to a nation's rights regardless of the people be it a minority or majority.

And what, if any, is the implication of denying such rights? Denied by whom?

Depends on the reason(s) for the denial and basis of said rights. It can vary from simple disagreement regarding religion in general as per my views to outright hatred as per Hamas.

Using what instruments of oppression?

As this is a nation-state issue typically by force be it the military, LEO or government goons. Although financial influences can play a role

For what purpose?

Again dependent on the those involved. It could just be a conversation topic as it is now. For say protest groups part of a change in foreign policy such as various groups in the USA

The former simply reflects petit bourgeois sophistry while the latter validates oppression.

You are following a different concept of nation-state than I am. So this is neither here nor there without further explaination

 

[Flankerl]

Is this your argument? Shooting civilians and medics is OK because you are belittling a fundamental LOAC concept?

Why aren't you answering the question? If it is always wrong to shoot medics why isn't 90% of every armed force made up of medics?

You know you can just say that you are wrong and that you've dug yourself into a hole.

And I'm sure that most Israelis, including "the Gideon Levy crowd," don't want their neighbors stabbed or their elementary schools mortared or ...
... and none of that justifies the death of this young paramedic.

Good but that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about Israel targeting medics according to some esteemed members of this Forum.

Also I am quite certain that Gideon Levy wouldn't be that sad.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I do not follow nor accept rights created from a religious context as I do not follow any religion let alone a specific one related to Israel.

Congratulations. That is easily one of the more irrelevant, self-centered, and ignorant comments concerning Israel-Palestine that I've heard in a long time.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Good but that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about Israel targeting medics according to some esteemed members of this Forum.

My bad. I thought it was about an unarmed medic being killed by an Israeli sniper.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Why aren't you answering the question? If it is always wrong to shoot medics why isn't 90% of every armed force made up of medics?

You know you can just say that you are wrong and that you've dug yourself into a hole.

Because medics are not fit for tactical purposes, and such a use of medics would probably count as "treachery" under LOAC, which is a whole other thing to familiarise yourself with. Amazingly, you haven't overturned 150 year old internationally recognised convention with your suggestion.

 

[Shad]

Congratulations. That is easily one of the more irrelevant, self-centered, and ignorant comments concerning Israel-Palestine that I've heard in a long time.

Your reaction is hilarious considering I was merely stating a basis I do not accept. You seem to have spun my comment into something in your head to become angry over.

 

[Flankerl]

My bad. I thought it was about an unarmed medic being killed by an Israeli sniper.

Ah now you too. Probably also don't have a source.

Because medics are not fit for tactical purposes, and such a use of medics would probably count as "treachery" under LOAC, which is a whole other thing to familiarise yourself with. Amazingly, you haven't overturned 150 year old internationally recognised convention with your suggestion.

So... you are saying that there are instances where medics become fair game.

This is a 180° change. Cool.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If you've got to lie about what people say to maintain your position, maybe it's time to reasses your position.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

For anyone else following along, medics used for tactical purposes cease to be medics, but I'm sure everyone not being willfully obtuse got that already.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Ah now you too. Probably also don't have a source.





So... you are saying that there are instances where medics become fair game.

This is a 180° change. Cool.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

@Flankerl

You can’t get shot in the chest randomly. I was suspect IDF snipers are not bad shots. I have to give it up to IDF they’re pretty good at shooting at soft targets I’d compare such skill comparable to our SWAT teams here in the states.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Spoiler: Warning Graphic

If anyone can confirm if this is her it would be greatly appreciated. Looks like her getting intubated

 

[Flankerl]

You can’t get shot in the chest randomly.

That's something really stupid to write.

I was suspect IDF snipers are not bad shots

Again with the sniper claim. Still no evidence though.


Also cute videos to gather support.
Enjoy your thread.

 

[Sunstone]

Anyone who approaches this issue with intellectual honesty might be interested in the following interview with Tarek Loubani, a Canadian doctor of Palestinian descent who was shot not too long ago while attending the wounded in a Gaza.protest.

Of particular interest to some might be the fact the day he was shot a total of 19 medical personnel on the Palestinian side were shot despite that, for weeks prior to that day, not even a single medical person had been shot, perhaps because they wear easily and clearly identifiable clothing. Also of note, Loubani makes clear that he cannot say with certainty medical personnel were actually targeted that day, but can only lay out the facts as he knows them.

In response to the shootings, the Israeli defense minster replied, in part, "I want to emphasize, the leadership of Hamas is a gang of cannibals, who treat also their own children as ammunition." That strikes me as the usual smoke and mirrors, but you decide for yourself whether that would justify targeting clearly marked and identifiable medical personnel, if they were indeed actually targeted.

Meet Tarek Loubani, the Canadian Doctor Shot by Israeli Forces Monday While Treating Gaza’s Wounded | Democracy Now!

By the way, although this will only matter to some people, I fully support Israel's right to exist.

 

[Shaul]

So many “arm chair” analysts opining and speculating about a difficult situation they patently have no first hand knowledge of.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That's something really stupid to write.




Again with the sniper claim. Still no evidence though.


Also cute videos to gather support.
Enjoy your thread.

It’s not a stupid claim. She died by gunfire in the chest area which ruptured an aorta. It is confirmed by several media outlets she died by gunfire. If you look at the placement of GSW’s or gunshot shot wounds, people are deliberately getting hit at several places on their body. She was hit in the chest. I supplied the videos and the reports you’re too fanatical about your position.

You’re just defending a bunch of cowards sitting there targeting defenseless people. It’s easy to shoot at soft targets. Like I said take big brother United States’ support militarily the politics would be different but it’s too bad ignorant evangelical Christians think some real estate is going to spark the end times.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So many “arm chair” analysts opining and speculating about a difficult situation they patently have no first hand knowledge of.

You have no stake in this discussion as I personally believe you aren’t Jewish and I have good reason you have a fake account go somewhere else because don’t you have some alt-right anti-Semitic website to attend?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Anyone who approaches this issue with intellectual honesty might be interested in the following interview with Tarek Loubani, a Canadian doctor of Palestinian descent who was shot not too long ago while attending the wounded in a Gaza.protest.

Of particular interest to some might be the fact the day he was shot a total of 19 medical personnel on the Palestinian side were shot despite that, for weeks prior to that day, not even a single medical person had been shot, perhaps because they wear easily and clearly identifiable clothing. Also of note, Loubani makes clear that he cannot say with certainty medical personnel were actually targeted that day, but can only lay out the facts as he knows them.

In response to the shootings, the Israeli defense minster replied, in part, "I want to emphasize, the leadership of Hamas is a gang of cannibals, who treat also their own children as ammunition." That strikes me as the usual smoke and mirrors, but you decide for yourself whether that would justify targeting clearly marked and identifiable medical personnel, if they were indeed actually targeted.

Meet Tarek Loubani, the Canadian Doctor Shot by Israeli Forces Monday While Treating Gaza’s Wounded | Democracy Now!

By the way, although this will only matter to some people, I fully support Israel's right to exist.

This really isn’t a question about Israel’s right to exist and quite frankly I get kinda sick and tired of hearing the phrase of “Israel’s right to exist,” because any intellectually honest person will assume that any and all human beings that are non-combatants and want to live in peace ought to live free, existing, and thriving, so that’s a given.

However, I believe Palestinians have a right to exist and not get shot in the chest. Or get ran over with a bulldozer like an American journalist did some years ago. Palestinians aren’t free especially if these people have to go through checkpoints. With that being said we’re already past the threshold where these people cannot get back their ancestral homeland so now what?

If you listen to the words these people use in these videos it’s distrubing. They are focusing on Martyrdom, and so, some of these people are past the point of living. There is no help on both sides because both are stubborn. No help from the U.S because the Orange Orangutan in office placed the U.S embassy in Jerusalem.

The Palestinian people feel they have nobody on their side except extremism. How do you intervene and talk about peace to a people who lost family? You have extremist groups on both sides of the fence. You have Zionists that feel entitled to be there and you have Palestinians who are also entitled that feel they should be there.

As a United States citizen who has never visited that region I don’t know how I would feel if my ancestors lived on a plot of land for centuries then for some reason a world panel decided that some Germans can have my land and to compromise, give me $10k to sleep across the street. Then if I protest my child and wife die in the process.

I don’t know if I could maintain my sanity.....

I think it would help if both sides could put aside their biases and live among people who lost loved ones so they could be immersed in the others’ pain and anguish.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think this video offers a unique and diverse perspective to this discussion. Been following this guy m’s videos for some time and it provides some education for me on the diverse opinions of the people themselves.