Razan Al-Najjar: Palestinian medic who saved lives shot dead by Israeli sniper

[Shushersbedamned]

I think this video offers a unique and diverse perspective to this discussion. Been following this guy m’s videos for some time and it provides some education for me on the diverse opinions of the people themselves.

I'm sure. Oh no wait. No I'm not.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

A man doesn't deserve to die any less because he saves lives.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

A man doesn't deserve to die any less because he saves lives.

Please learn to read the evolution of the thread before commenting otherwise you'd sound really foolish

 

[Shushersbedamned]

Please learn to read the evolution of the thread before commenting otherwise you'd sound really foolish

I make sure if I find it relevant. This is a bottom truth that is not affected by anything. So it is true and relevant no matter what is said before it or after it.

 

[columbus]

In response to the shootings, the Israeli defense minster replied, in part, "I want to emphasize, the leadership of Hamas is a gang of cannibals, who treat also their own children as ammunition." That strikes me as the usual smoke and mirrors, but you decide for yourself whether that would justify targeting clearly marked and identifiable medical personnel, if they were indeed actually targeted.

Except for a few things.
Like, the targeting is speculation. Maybe, maybe not, but it certainly doesn't help IDF or Israel to hand this sort of image to Hamas. I think "maybe not" is more plausible. The shooter may not have been too concerned about the possibility, given the media coverage already, but deliberate?
Also, Hamas has been demonstrated to do what the defense minister describes. It's been shown right here on RF. Search for Matemkar's threads.

I don't claim to know what happened in this particular instance. But I certainly don't trust Hamas to either protect Palestinians or be truthful in the media.
Tom

 

[Sunstone]

Also, Hamas has been demonstrated to do what the defense minister describes. It's been shown right here on RF. Search for Matemkar's threads

Granted, but it seems you miss the point. The smoke and mirrors I was referring to was a matter of the defense minister's making the point, which is probably true if taken extremely literally, not merely that Hamas uses human shields, but to apparently suggest that on the day an extraordinary and simply unprecedented number of medical personnel were shot, the most likely explanation was Hamas had been using all of them as shields. -- a charge that is at best speculation, given the total absence of any empirical evidence for it.[/QUOTE]

 

[columbus]

simply unprecedented number of medical personnel were shot, the most likely explanation was Hamas had been using all of them as shields. -

I don't see that as particularly unlikely, given Hamas' track record of doing such things.
Tom

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

@Flankerl

You can’t get shot in the chest randomly. I was suspect IDF snipers are not bad shots. I have to give it up to IDF they’re pretty good at shooting at soft targets I’d compare such skill comparable to our SWAT teams here in the states.

That was part of my earlier point. Sniper fire isn't random. And given the level of training and equipment of the snipers in question, and the number of medical personnel hit by them in recent times, it's fair to assume SOMEONE is targetting medics. Whether it's a single sniper, IDF wide doctrine, or somewhere in between is harder to judge.

 

[columbus]

That was part of my earlier point. Sniper fire isn't random. And given the level of training and equipment of the snipers in question, and the number of medical personnel hit by them in recent times, it's fair to assume SOMEONE is targetting medics. Whether it's a single sniper, IDF wide doctrine, or somewhere in between is harder to judge.

What makes you think Hamas using them as shields is so unlikely?
Tom

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What makes you think Hamas using them as shields is so unlikely?
Tom

They were there doing medic stuff. That makes it illegal to shoot them, whether they're being used as "shields" or not. I admit I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you think they weren't legitimately providing medical aid and/or weren't there for that express purpose?

 

[columbus]

They were there doing medic stuff. That makes it illegal to shoot them, whether they're being used as "shields" or not. I admit I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you think they weren't legitimately providing medical aid and/or weren't there for that express purpose?

It's illegal to target them.
But if "high value" Palestinian targets move around their battle field just behind them, they are going to get shot. Not targeted.
Tom

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

It's illegal to target them.
But if "high value" Palestinian targets move around their battle field just behind them, they are going to get shot. Not targeted.
Tom

Yeah... that's a lot of assumptions...

Also, if that was what happened (on multiple occasions) you don't think the Israelis would be yelling it from the rooftops?

 

[columbus]

Yeah... that's a lot of assumptions...

No assumptions whatsoever.
Just the Hamas has done similarly vicious things in the past, with regularity, and I don't see a reason to think they have changed. So the only real assumption in this whole ugly affair is that IDF targeted the medic.
Tom

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No assumptions whatsoever.
Just the Hamas has done similarly vicious things in the past, with regularity, and I don't see a reason to think they have changed. So the only real assumption in this whole ugly affair is that IDF targeted the medic.
Tom

Because that's what the evidence we have shows. The idea that there was a high value target hiding behind a medic that the sniper was firing at and missed, on multiple occasions is indeed assumption.

 

[columbus]

Because that's what the evidence we have shows.

What evidence? A claim by Hamas?

Here on RF we were treated to a Hamas headline
IDF Targets Sleeping Palestinian Children!
The Hamas version was that the IDF bombed a building which they knew had sleeping children in it.
What actually happened was IDF identified a building with a large cache of missiles in the basement. Missiles intended to be fired at unknowing non-combatants. IDF let Hamas know, through an NGO go-between that the building was about to be destroyed. They had time to clear people out of the building, but not the missiles. Hamas let IDF know that children were in the building, but left the children to die!
The missiles were destroyed and 17 children died needlessly.

But Hamas got a great headline!
Just like they do now. I think it about equally likely that some Hamas fighter deliberately shoved the medic into live fire as an IDF sniper targeted her.
Tom

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That was part of my earlier point. Sniper fire isn't random. And given the level of training and equipment of the snipers in question, and the number of medical personnel hit by them in recent times, it's fair to assume SOMEONE is targetting medics. Whether it's a single sniper, IDF wide doctrine, or somewhere in between is harder to judge.

Right....That is the whole point about long distance rifles they're made for precision not suppression like SAW (M249 light machine gun). This was a precise shot.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What evidence? A claim by Hamas?

Here on RF we were treated to a Hamas headline
IDF Targets Sleeping Palestinian Children!
The Hamas version was that the IDF bombed a building which they knew had sleeping children in it.
What actually happened was IDF identified a building with a large cache of missiles in the basement. Missiles intended to be fired at unknowing non-combatants. IDF let Hamas know, through an NGO go-between that the building was about to be destroyed. They had time to clear people out of the building, but not the missiles. Hamas let IDF know that children were in the building, but left the children to die!
The missiles were destroyed and 17 children died needlessly.

But Hamas got a great headline!
Just like they do now. I think it about equally likely that some Hamas fighter deliberately shoved the medic into live fire as an IDF sniper targeted her.
Tom

Dude, we have video and non HAMAS witness accounts. This isn't some "he said she said your word against mine" fendder bender.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Right....That is the whole point about long distance rifles they're made for precision not suppression like SAW (M249 light machine gun). This was a precise shot.

Exactly. If it was supression fire or indirect fire or shrapnel, then 5his would be a lot easier to accept as accidental. Or even a one off incident.