Reincarnation - Scripture or imagination?

[Ken Brown]

Future tense .. thanks



It's hard because there are so many things in which jesus is never like Moses, other prophets maybe more like it, Simon Bar Kochba for instance ..

Moses is an army general, .. jesus is just a Palestinian citizen living under Roman rule.

Moses was born of known parents .. jesus has parents (I assume) but unknown father.

Moses was a leader ... jesus is not

Moses helped his people .. jesus caused all his generation of baby infants to be killed
(his country was reduced to rubble thanks to him)

Moses won something (a few wars) ... jesus never

Moses lived only once .. and died, and finished .. the biblical jesus has disturbed history here.

Moses married a few, and had kids ... jesus neither (unless our scholars say otherwise)

Moses never violated the commandments .. jesus ruined them all

Moses wrote books ... jesus didn't

the scripture says . someone LIKE Moses will do and so .. jesus is not that person

thanks

Hi Xchristian, why would Peter say this?:

Act 7:37-38
(37) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
(38) This is He,

Is Peter wrong? KB

 

[Conståntine]

Hi Constantine, maybe you are not aware of what Yeshua has said:

Mat 17:11
(11) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

What does "shall first come," mean to you? Will Elias first come to restore all things? KB

In one of your previous posts, you stated that Yeshua will come as Elijah and restore all things. If you are referencing the likes of Malachi 4:5-6, then that assertion is incorrect.

 

[Shermana]

Hi Xchristian, why would Peter say this?:

Act 7:37-38
(37) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
(38) This is He,

Is Peter wrong? KB

I can see why ya snipped it off there:

Young's Literal Translation
'This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness, with the messenger who is speaking to him in the mount Sinai, and with our fathers who did receive the living oracles to give to us;

There ya go.

Edit: You may want verse 39 if you're still doubting on what the context is:

New International Version (©1984)
"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.

 

[Ken Brown]

I can see why ya snipped it off there:

There ya go.

Edit: You may want verse 39 if you're still doubting on what the context is:

New International Version (©1984)
"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.

Hi Shermana, what are you trying to say? Are you saying that Yeshua is not THAT Prophet that Moses spoke about? KB

 

[Ken Brown]

In one of your previous posts, you stated that Yeshua will come as Elijah and restore all things. If you are referencing the likes of Malachi 4:5-6, then that assertion is incorrect.

Hi Constantine, not so. Yeshua WILL come and restore all things as is foretold of what Elijah will do. Otherwise, Peter is mistaken. KB

 

[Shermana]

Hi Shermana, what are you trying to say? Are you saying that Yeshua is not THAT Prophet that Moses spoke about? KB

I'm saying that if you read the whole chapter and not just cherry pick that verse, you'll see that Peter isn't focusing on Moses talking about another prophet but simply listing things Moses said and did, the focus is on Moses himself.

And if anything, Moses was most likely referring to Joshua.

35“This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, ‘Who made you ruler and judge?’ He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Seag and for forty years in the desert.

In other words, it's not a reference to another prophet at all but merely listing what Moses said. If it was, he wouldn't have kept talking about Moses. He was merely saying that Moses said that another prophet would be raised like him in ADDITION to other things he said, without that being the focus of his speech by any means. Read ALL of chapter 7 and get back to me. Otherwise, if you'd like the whole passage pasted, I can do that.

Peter simply wasn't talking about the Prophet that Moses spoke of, he merely was talking about Moses and some of the things he said and he did.

 

[Conståntine]

Hi Constantine, not so. Yeshua WILL come and restore all things as is foretold of what Elijah will do. Otherwise, Peter is mistaken. KB

What reference pertaining to Peter are you referring to? You've lost me.

 

[Shermana]

Furthermore, you will find that virtually none of the traditionalist orthodox commentators recognized that Peter was actually talking about the prophet Moses spoke of.

Acts 7:37 Bible Commentary

At best they said that Moses was a "Type of Christ" but not at all the same thing you're referring to.

 

[Ken Brown]

Furthermore, you will find that virtually none of the traditionalist orthodox commentators recognized that Peter was actually talking about the prophet Moses spoke of.

Acts 7:37 Bible Commentary

At best they said that Moses was a "Type of Christ" but not at all the same thing you're referring to.

Hi Shermana, what do the commentaries say about what Peter said here:

Act 3:22
(22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Is Peter saying that Yeshua IS THAT Prophet which Moses spoke would come:

Deu 18:15
(15) The LORD thy G-d will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Or should we be looking for someone else? KB

 

[Conståntine]

Hi Shermana, what do the commentaries say about what Peter said here:

Act 3:22
(22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Is Peter saying that Yeshua IS THAT Prophet which Moses spoke would come:

Deu 18:15
(15) The LORD thy G-d will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Or should we be looking for someone else? KB

If you are connecting this references to that of the coming of Elias/Elijah to bring restoration, then your previous statement to myself remains irrevocably incorrect. They are referring to two completely different people.

 

[Shermana]

Hi Shermana, what do the commentaries say about what Peter said here:

Act 3:22
(22) For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your G-d raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Is Peter saying that Yeshua IS THAT Prophet which Moses spoke would come:

Deu 18:15
(15) The LORD thy G-d will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Or should we be looking for someone else? KB

Seriously, read the whole chapter before you cherry pick and get the completely wrong context. This is like the fourth time.

23Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.’b

24“Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days. 25And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’c 26When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

And verse 18 to help you understand why he's even mentioning the prophets;

But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer

I also recommend you check to see if anyone has made such a claim before, especially from the traditionalist orthodox commentators. In this case however, you have Gills and Clark, but they're not saying it's the ONLY prophet being spoken of. Rather, they're saying he's a prophet in the same line of prophets. Though Clark is a bit mistaken in his view that such a prophet could radically change the Law that all the other prophets upheld. Matthew Henry rather gets the right idea that he's the one being promised to the Fathers.

http://biblecommenter.com/acts/3-22.htm

 

[Ken Brown]

Seriously, read the whole chapter before you cherry pick and get the completely wrong context. This is like the fourth time.

And verse 18 to help you understand why he's even mentioning the prophets;

I also recommend you check to see if anyone has made such a claim before, especially from the traditionalist orthodox commentators. In this case however, you have Gills and Clark, but they're not saying it's the ONLY prophet being spoken of. Rather, they're saying he's a prophet in the same line of prophets. Though Clark is a bit mistaken in his view that such a prophet could radically change the Law that all the other prophets upheld.

Acts 3:22 Bible Commentary

Hi Shermana, well then who do you say is THAT Prophet? KB

 

[Xchristian]

Hi Shermana, well then who do you say is THAT Prophet? KB

Please Mr Brown, ... we are talking about reincarnation, branching topic doesn't help.

I hate to intervene in convo's of other people, but this really is difficult.

 

[Xchristian]

Where does it state that Moses was an army general specifically?

How many battles would you like me to show you from the OT?

Read the biblical text carefully.


Matthew 1:20: But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

ok, Moses's dad was a man, jesus' was a ghost .. no problem.
that makes them more different.

He has had and continues to have countless followers up until the present, so perhaps you may want to revise your assertion.

I wish i could have said; (I am prince Charles)

jesus was killed by the authorities Constantine, ... he is not king.

He's (Jesus) helped me. And others. His country was reduced to rubble by reason of Tiberius if my recollection of historical events is accurate.

You mean his failed prophecy?

Actually, by Moses' own account, Moses didn't win anything.

Deuteronomy 20:4: For the LORD your God is he that goeth with you, to fight for you against your enemies, to save you.

jesus didn't fight nothing, with or without help, more difference.

So has Facebook. Your point is....??

facebook is not like Moses, that's for sure, and neither is jesus, which is our point.

How so?

Ask our jewish friends ..

Can you provide any evidence that Moses wrote anything?

[Mk 7:10][ For Moses said, "Honor your father and your mother'; and, "Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.']

unless you really think Moses left a CD with his voice on, he must have written it.

{b.t.w} I don't believe it, but just because you believe in that book, I am using it to prove it to you.

 

[Conståntine]

How many battles would you like me to show you from the OT?

I would prefer you show me where he is referred to as a general, as I requested before.

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ok, Moses's dad was a man, jesus' was a ghost .. no problem.
that makes them more different.

Okay.

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I wish i could have said; (I am prince Charles)

Okay.


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jesus was killed by the authorities Constantine, ... he is not king.

If you've come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't king via deductive logic, with your premise being the first clause of the sentence, then it leaves much to be desired.

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You mean his failed prophecy?

No, I wasn't referring to any failed prophecies.


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jesus didn't fight nothing, with or without help, more difference.

Jesus is God, in case you haven't gotten the 1,900-ish year old memo.

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facebook is not like Moses, that's for sure, and neither is jesus, which is our point.

And to whom does this "our" refer to?


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[Mk 7:10][ For Moses said, "Honor your father and your mother'; and, "Whoever speaks evil of father or mother must surely die.']

unless you really think Moses left a CD with his voice on, he must have written it.

I truly appreciate sarcasm, but it is that much more potent when you actually use it to reinforce an accurate statement. Having said that, you are still wrong.

Deuteronomy 9:10: And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

GOD didn't use Microsoft Word, but he did write the commandment that you cited (and others) himself.

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{b.t.w} I don't believe it, but just because you believe in that book, I am using it to prove it to you.

You have yet to provide any relevant scriptural proof to back up any of your claims thus so far, so I have no idea as to why you have divulged the above verbiage.

 

[Xchristian]

I would prefer you show me where he is referred to as a general, as I requested before.

ah, I gotcha .. nah, my point is that jesus is not the person meant in the Moses prophecy, I hope you have now learned it!

If you've come to the conclusion that Jesus isn't king via deductive logic, with your premise being the first clause of the sentence, then it leaves much to be desired.

nope .. it's via solid rational pure practical facts .. jesus was hanged for a crime, ... kings don't get hanged for crimes unless they are ousted first, he was never a king or a ruler in the first place.

No, I wasn't referring to any failed prophecies.

good good, any true prophecy that came true please?

Jesus is God, in case you haven't gotten the 1,900-ish year old memo.

nah .. [smile] I haven't got that thing [/smile]

And to whom does this "our" refer to?

our as in first person plural, I and you, and all the users of this thread.
Our point is about jesus prophecies. in case you haven't noticed.

I truly appreciate sarcasm, but it is that much more potent when you actually use it to reinforce an accurate statement. Having said that, you are still wrong.

Deuteronomy 9:10: And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

GOD didn't use Microsoft Word, but he did write the commandment that you cited (and others) himself.

Ah, you want another one not in the commandments, by all means ..
(by the way, it's Moses -according to your belief and not mine- that wrote even those, because the stones were all broken - read the TNK.

Anyway, this bit is not in the 10 commandments and surely wasn't on Moses.com website ..

[Mt 19:8][ He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.]

You have yet to provide any relevant scriptural proof to back up any of your claims thus so far, so I have no idea as to why you have divulged the above verbiage.

I like this .. ok here's a few more all not in the plates (which were broken)

[Mk 1:44][ saying to him, "See that you say nothing to anyone; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer for your cleansing what Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."]


I hope this one is helpful

[Mk 12:19][ "Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies, leaving a wife but no child, the man shall marry the widow and raise up children for his brother.]


Did jesus write anything? .. he didn't, so prophecy has nothing to do with jesus.

thanks

 

[Xchristian]

oh my ...

Do you think god wrote the Pentateuch Mr Constantine?

That wouldn't be on two plates, that would need at least 120 tons of cement to take all those chapters!

 

[Conståntine]

ah, I gotcha .. nah, my point is that jesus is not the person meant in the Moses prophecy, I hope you have now learned it!

Given some of your previous misstatements concerning scripture, I would be hesitant to accept this statement.

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nope .. it's via solid rational pure practical facts .. jesus was hanged for a crime, ... kings don't get hanged for crimes unless they are ousted first, he was never a king or a ruler in the first place.

Scripturally, you aren't in good standing there, but I'm suddenly not in the mood to go back & forth with you on this.


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good good, any true prophecy that came true please?

Reread my previous posts. I already cited some.

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our as in first person plural, I and you, and all the users of this thread.

Pray, don't include me.

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Ah, you want another one not in the commandments, by all means ..
(by the way, it's Moses -according to your belief and not mine- that wrote even those, because the stones were all broken - read the TNK.

You have moved from numerous inaccurate biblical statements to reading my mind?

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Anyway, this bit is not in the 10 commandments and surely wasn't on Moses.com website ..

[Mt 19:8][ He said to them, "It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.]

Let me clarify my point, which I now see that I did a horrible job. I was referring to the authorship of the first 5 books of the bible - the Tanach. I have no idea as to the authorship of these books, and they are quite often attributed to Moses as having penned them all. Aside from the fact that the book of Deuteronomy records Moses' death, it is not concretely known who specifically penned what. Yes, Moses wrote quite a bit in his day, and there are old testament scriptures that attest to that fact more concretely than what you scrambled to provide myself. For all I know, he may have even written love letters. As far as how much he authored these books, I and many others have not a clue.

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Did jesus write anything? .. he didn't, so prophecy has nothing to do with jesus.
thanks

Your reasoning here makes no sense whatsoever. Can you please break that down lucidly?

 

[Xchristian]

Given some of your previous statements concerning scripture, I would be hesitant to accept this statement.

It would be hard for me to ask you for proof .. knowing you had fair enough chance.

Scripturally, you aren't in good standing there, but I'm suddenly not in the mood to go back & forth with you on this.

have you anything that jesus says in it that he is king? or even god the son?

Reread my previous posts. I already cited some.

This is like: ... do you have a pen? .. yes here's my ruler.
I wanted something that came true, you failed Constantine to provide any of those!

Pray, don't include me.

I am my own god, I don't pray to anyone, but as for your request, what are you doing here then please if you are not debating this particular issue?

You have moved from numerous inaccurate biblical statements to reading my mind?

if you don't believe the bible, then what's the point in the first place!!!

Let me clarify my point, which I now see that I did a horrible job. I was referring to the authorship of the first 5 books of the bible - the Tanach. I have no idea as to the authorship of these books, and they are quite often attributed to Moses as having penned them all. Aside from the fact that the book of Deuteronomy records Moses' death, it is not concretely known who specifically penned what. Yes, Moses wrote quite a bit in his day, and there are old testament scriptures that attest to that fact more concretely than what you scrambled to provide myself. For all I know, he may have even written love letters.

you're beginning to understand now.

Your reasoning here makes no sense whatsoever. Can you please break that down lucidly?

I apologise, I thought you were writing in our thread, now I know you are just writing. [full stop]

 

[Conståntine]

have you anything that jesus says in it that he is king? or even god the son?

I'm glad you asked:

John 18:33: Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?
John 18:34: Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?
John 18:35: Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
John 18:36: Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
John 18:37: Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

What in the world is god the son??


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This is like: ... do you have a pen? .. yes here's my ruler.
I wanted something that came true, you failed Constantine to provide any of those!

I guess that would be just as true as you providing me with scripture proof that Moses was a general like I asked, and you didn't. In any event, I already stated that Jesus predicted:

1) The destruction of the temple (I already mentioned this before)

Matthew 24:1: And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Matthew 24:2: And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

2) He also predicted the coming of many wars and rumours of wars, and false christs. There's a couple for you.

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I am my own god, I don't pray to anyone, but as for your request, what are you doing here then please if you are not debating this particular issue?

I wasn't talking about prayer. The use of the word "Pray" in my previous message is akin to the word "Please".