Rejection of Christ

[jewscout]

Muslims do not worship my god. and the Jews were deceived by Satan, which Satan considered his biggest victory, but that just opened the door for the gentiles

wellll

glad to help

 

[sonflour_2001]

In His Defense,

Please don't kill the messenger. (Jesus in this case.) I don't see why Jesus gets such a bad rap. He didn't tell people to go start killing others...yeesh...I could see if he was Hitler's butt-buddy or something. Anyway, as for rejecting Christ, I can't figure out why anyone would reject him, and I don't mean him as the figure of belief, but what he symbolized. Whether you believe in the sundry details of Christ's life or not, one should still be able to understand, self-sacrifice, love and fairness, and this is what Christ personified. Personally, I've seen some atheists who exude all of these, but don't believe in the existence of a necessary being or God-head figure. Usually, I tell them that they are Christians whether they like it or not....(probably better than some of the ones running around spending 1/2 their time in church, with the other 1/2 in sin)...because "the law of God is written on their hearts, and they are a law unto themselves." (I'll have to get the exact quote, as I'm generally bad with scriptural references.) (Romans) Many are doing the right thing simply because it feels right and not b/c or some award system of heavenly privilege that some Christian's so selfishly cling to. Yep. Believe it or not, scripture even covers the goodness that can be inherently found in non-believers too.

In any case, if there comes a day when Christ and all of his spirituality can be completely debunked as myth and folly, that still will not tarnish the standard of love for yourself and others that he sought to uphold. So as for rejecting Christ, if you wish to not belief in the more fantastical components of his existence, then fine. But, when it comes to what he stood for, why would anyone what to reject that? Love.

Dee

 

[logician]

"No one knowingly rejects Christ, if they reject him its because they don't know.
"

I thought I was "saved" several times, but now realize that then I DIDN'T know.

Now I know that god is a myth, made in man's image.:sorry1:

 

[uumckk16]

In any case, if there comes a day when Christ and all of his spirituality can be completely debunked as myth and folly, that still will not tarnish the standard of love for yourself and others that he sought to uphold. So as for rejecting Christ, if you wish to not belief in the more fantastical components of his existence, then fine. But, when it comes to what he stood for, why would anyone what to reject that? Love.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it. But the topic is discussing rejecting Christ as the literal Son of God. As you pointed out, there's a difference between rejecting that and rejecting what he symbolizes. Rejecting Christ and rejecting love, from a non-Christian point of view, are entirely unique concepts.

 

[joeboonda]

The Scriptures that I gave are very clear as well that we think we may and might be saved. The context in which you assume was meant in the verses are not of my understanding but what is, is the fact that we as men can only hope for, and pray, that YAH our Elohim will spread His grace on us and take pity unto our beings and save us. It is my understanding that it would be very bold indeed for any of us to make such statements as to our own salvations when it is not up to us whether we obtain such or not. We can only hope. With faith and obedience to the Most High. We pray that He saves us........... For the Potter does as He wishes with the clay.

I understand how it may sound presumptuous for one to say they know they are saved, but that is what I John, says, that these were written that we may know we have eternal life. If one looks at salvation as a free gift as described in Romans 5:16-18 and throughout the NT, and that it says that today is the day of salvation, if it is a free gift we accept, that Christ paid for us, He bought us, that it is not a reward we work for or hope to earn or achieve, but is a free gift given to undeserving sinners for trusting in what Christ did to redeem us, then one can know according to scripture that they have eternal life, as John 5:24 says:
5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(King James Bible, John)
There are many such promises in the NT, that we are saved by grace (undeserved favor), and not of works, lest any man should boast. We call it having the assurance of salvation and eternal security where I come from. But it all happens when we trust alone in Christ alone to save us.

 

[sonflour_2001]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it. But the topic is discussing rejecting Christ as the literal Son of God. As you pointed out, there's a difference between rejecting that and rejecting what he symbolizes. Rejecting Christ and rejecting love, from a non-Christian point of view, are entirely unique concepts.

Ahhh.... thanks for pointing that out. When I read the title of the forum I assumed that rejection of Christ was all inclusive: the man, his works, miracles, teachings, and divinity. Consider me enlightened.

Dee

 

[lunamoth]

Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. (Matt 10:34)

51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. (Matt 26)

36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[b]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22)

OK, that's all the Gospel references to a sword I could find. In Matt 10 He tells that He did not bring peace, but a sword, referring to the idea that His message would be so disruptive. This does not mean Jesus is advocating violence.

Matt 26 is a pretty clear admonishment against use of the sword.

Luke 22 suggests that Jesus knew that the disciples were going to meet more resistance in their teaching now that His teachings were starting to draw attention.

lunamoth

 

[Arrow]

Col 2:9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
meaning Christ was the earthly body of God
-This is my opinion not fact of course

 

[Mister_T]

5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation;

Would you agree that "believing" in Jesus requires more than a confession of who he was?

 

[logician]

"5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation"

Thus the absurdity of Christianity, as billions of people have not heard of the supposed Jesus over the ages, being geographically or politically isolated from the stories of Christianity. Does this automatically doom them to an imagined hell?

 

[Mister_T]

"5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation"

Thus the absurdity of Christianity, as billions of people have not heard of the supposed Jesus over the ages, being geographically or politically isolated from the stories of Christianity. Does this automatically doom them to an imagined hell?

That would be up to God to decide, not any person.

Sending people to Hell because they were at the at the wrong place at the wrong time makes absolutley no sense whatsoever. God is in control of everything and chooses where you're going to be (I know there's a passage for that). Which is why the "confession of belief" doctrine does not fly with a lot of Christians. Myself included.

 

[joeboonda]

Would you agree that "believing" in Jesus requires more than a confession of who he was?

To 'believe in' or 'believe on', is to 'trust in'. When a person ceases trusting their own self-righteousness, which is as filthy rags, or their church or works or rituals, sacraments, ceremonies, superstitions, covenants, promises, ideas, heart, feelings, organization, religious leaders, lodge, gurus, goodness, religious objects, or whatever else they are trusting in to 'earn' salvation, and repent, change their mind about how to be saved, and accept God's way, and trust solely in the death of Christ, that His death already paid for ALL the sins of the world, every last one anyone would ever commit, and trust alone in that, that God was satisfied with the payment for sin, Christ's death. When a person cries out to God to have mercy on me, a poor, lost, miserable, wretched sinner, and comes to Christ for forgiveness of all their sins, believing that His death paid for every last one, and trusting alone in Christ alone, and nothing else, giving all the glory to God, admitting they are a sinner in need of a Saviour, God freely gives them the gift of eternal life, they are a new creature, adopted into God's family, heirs, with an inheritance laid up for them that will never perish, baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ, sealed with the Spirit unto the day of redemption, their sins washed away, forgotten forever, never again to be brought up, and clothed with the righteousness of Christ in place of their own, having an advocate in Heaven,held in God's hands and none is greater than God and none can pluck them out, He will in no wise cast them out. Having these and many, many promises that upon the moment we put our complete trust in Jesus, we have passed from death to life and we now have eternal life, there is now no condemnation, we are justified, sanctified, kept by the power of God, who began a good work in us and will bring us home, in whom we have believed and are persuaded that He is able to keep that which we have committed unto Him against that day. It is a whole-hearted, have mercy on me a sinner, desperate cry to God, throwing ourself on His mercy and asking for His pardon and mercy, trusting in His death, His blood, believing in HIm with all our hearts all our hope resting on His death and ressurection, I believe at that moment we are saved. Hope that answers, its not just confession without belief, it is actually belief before confession, then confession, if that makes sense, lol.

 

[wmam]

I understand how it may sound presumptuous for one to say they know they are saved, but that is what I John, says, that these were written that we may know we have eternal life. If one looks at salvation as a free gift as described in Romans 5:16-18 and throughout the NT, and that it says that today is the day of salvation, if it is a free gift we accept, that Christ paid for us, He bought us, that it is not a reward we work for or hope to earn or achieve, but is a free gift given to undeserving sinners for trusting in what Christ did to redeem us, then one can know according to scripture that they have eternal life, as John 5:24 says:
5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(King James Bible, John)
There are many such promises in the NT, that we are saved by grace (undeserved favor), and not of works, lest any man should boast. We call it having the assurance of salvation and eternal security where I come from. But it all happens when we trust alone in Christ alone to save us.

And as far as a christian way of looking at it as going along with that way of understanding and doctrine............You've hit the nail right on the head.

I, though, look at all of the verses that not only speak of the grace part, as well as the "believe" parts, but I also look at those verses that speak of doing the good works of the law as well. Again, it doesn't take much for one to read Hebrews the 10th chapter to realize that it was the sacrificial laws that were set aside for the perpetuation of sins. It, just as little labor, to acquire the verses that show that we are to believe as well as do the good works of the law. His grace is free for those that obey. not to obey is sin and where there is sin after.........oh heck.......I'll just let the verse speak for itself..........

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Now what do you think the adversaries are? Those that sin wilfully.

Now being that where I come from we believe one needs to do more than just say that they are saved. Even those that are baptized don't have the right to say that they are saved. One can only hope. By the grace of YAH through His Son Yahshua we might be saved. The saved part is going to be totally up to the One that judges us all on that day. We, and I do include my most humble self, have not the rights over that of the Most High in any matter what so ever. We, where I come from, believe that one that would believe on the Son, Yahshua, would strive in their everyday life to not wilfully sin........

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Not serve sin but serve the Most High, YAH our Elohim. To do this would mean to obey Him and to obey Him would not be doing sin.

To reject Yahshua, the Son, is, to us, the same as rejecting the Father. YAH. To reject YAH is to reject His grace.

 

[joeboonda]

"5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation"

Thus the absurdity of Christianity, as billions of people have not heard of the supposed Jesus over the ages, being geographically or politically isolated from the stories of Christianity. Does this automatically doom them to an imagined hell?

Ok, it is disrespectful to call another's religion absurd. Does not hearing the gospel doom one to Hell? No, the Bible answers that well in the first 2 chapters of Romans and a few other places. God will judge nobody for rejecting Jesus who has not rejected Him. If one has never heard and understood the true Gospel message, they will not be judged for rejecting what they have not heard. I will not elaborate more on that for now, as that is a good subject to research or google, etc... IF one is really interested, which I do not think you are...?