Relationship between Judaism and Christianity

[Estro Felino]

I thought it would be interesting to see what Christians think about Jews and vice-versa.

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish. Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.

 

[Flankerl]

Depends: Are there going to be pogroms if we answer truthfully?

And if you say no it really means yes doesnt it?

This no also means yes doesnt it?


Though you really think that this thread is a good idea? But then again i dont know if your relationship with the Jewish community on RF could be any worse.

 

[Estro Felino]

As a Christian, I consider myself Jewish too.
Well, why am I Christian, then? Because I believe that the Moses' law was not enough. It did not explain the sense of life, which is Universal Love.
And Universal Love can only be attained through Selflessness, altruism and sacrifice.

That's how our symbol is a man (God) on a cross. It represents what we can become: it is better to be victims than perpetrators.
And God showed it to us: he preferred to be victim rather than perpetrator.

That's the reason why sacrifice and renounce are necessary: because you can't obtain the good of mankind if you are selfish and greedy.

 

[outhouse]

I think christians perverted Judaism to meet their own cultural needs.

They definately interpreted it their own way out of context. So I dont buy they did not change it, of course they did.

 

[xkatz]

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish.

No they aren't. This is what is called cultural appropriation.

Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.

Perhaps, but they have different interpretations nonetheless.

 

[Estro Felino]

Depends: Are there going to be pogroms if we answer truthfully?
And if you say no it really means yes doesnt it?
This no also means yes doesnt it?
Though you really think that this thread is a good idea? But then again i dont know if your relationship with the Jewish community on RF could be any worse.

Yes, do answer truthfully. It really means, yes.

 

[Estro Felino]

No they aren't. This is what is called cultural appropriation.

.

Well, you keep mixing up culture with religion. We are Jewish from a religious point of view. Not from a national or cultural point of view.

 

[outhouse]

Well, you keep mixing up culture with religion. We are Jewish from a religious point of view. Not from a national or cultural point of view.

No you are not Jewish.

The NT did not follow Judaism, it perverted it beyond what was written, changing it.

It added a god to monotheism. Found itself in a catch 22 and created the trinity to justify the changes.

 

[Sees]

Well, you keep mixing up culture with religion. We are Jewish from a religious point of view. Not from a national or cultural point of view.

I think this is probably one of the most interesting things in studying religion, it's imaginary separation from cultural identity we created.

 

[Drolefille]

I think stating that all Christians are also Jewish is a bit like saying that Gorillas are also Chimpanzees. They're not, they have a common ancestor but one branched off thousands of years ago. Christians don't (typically) follow most (any?) of Jewish law, and as Judaism remained in existence, it is rather difficult to say "we're Jews" when they're standing right there saying "No you definitely aren't." If Judaism had become Christianity full force, it would be far easier to state that. But still questionable, honestly.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think this is probably one of the most interesting things in studying religion, it's imaginary separation from cultural identity we created.

We didn't create any new cultural identity. Myriam was Jewish and her son, Jesus, was Jewish too.
It's not my fault if the woman who incarnated God in her womb was Jewish.
That's probably because the Jews were the most enlightened and inspired people in the world, at that time-
That is, it was the people that created a special connection with God. So Myriam could understand the value of our human nature. That is, Universal Love

 

[outhouse]

the Jews were the most enlightened and inspired people in the world

Something you would never be able to substantiate.

How about the Romans ?

 

[Estro Felino]

Something you would never be able to substantiate.

How about the Romans ?

Ha, ha...the Romans were pagan so they believed in the law of the fittest. They were greedy, money-hungry and selfish. It makes me puke just thinking of how rotten their souls were.

and I am Italian...

 

[Quiddity]

I think christians perverted Judaism to meet their own cultural needs.

The first Christians were Jews. What needs do you speak of?

 

[xkatz]

We didn't create any new cultural identity. Myriam was Jewish and her son, Jesus, was Jewish too.
It's not my fault if the woman who incarnated God in her womb was Jewish.
That's probably because the Jews were the most enlightened and inspired people in the world, at that time-
That is, it was the people that created a special connection with God. So Myriam could understand the value of our human nature. That is, Universal Love

Yes but just because Jesus was Jewish does not mean that all of his followers automatically become Jewish. You could claim that Christians are the successors of the Jewish in a spiritual sense from a Christian PoV, but don't expect Jewish people to accept them as halchically (sp?) Jewish.

 

[Sees]

Ha, ha...the Romans were pagan so they believed in the law of the fittest. They were greedy, money-hungry and selfish. It makes me puke just thinking of how rotten their souls were.

and I am Italian...

The propaganda flows strongly through you....

You should spend a good bit of time studying other traditions.

 

[Estro Felino]

The propaganda flows strongly through you....

You should spend a good bit of time studying other traditions.

Yes, Do you mind? I believe in divine justice, and God blesses those who thirst for justice, because they will be filled.

The money-hungry and the greedy people will rot in Hell. This will be my satisfaction.

I don't hate them. I want them to be happy, rich and healthy in this life. But not in the Afterlife. I want their souls to be imprisoned in Hell. They could have chosen altruism, but they chose selfishness.

 

[jewscout]

I thought it would be interesting to see what Christians think about Jews and vice-versa.

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish. Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.

is your mother Jewish or did you go through some sort of recognized conversion process where you learned what it means to live by the Torah or to be a part of Am Yisrael? If not then you are not Jewish.

also just because Christians didn't remove Jewish text doesn't mean your faith is based on Jewish theological constructs, because it isn't. Christianity is a completely different faith than Judaism.

does it make Christianity wrong for non-Jews? No, nor does it make it "wrong". But just because you didn't delete the text doesn't mean you adhere to mitzvot, and that you beleive G-d had to add on to Torah is evidence of that (Deut. 13:1)

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes but just because Jesus was Jewish does not mean that all of his followers automatically become Jewish. You could claim that Christians are the successors of the Jewish in a spiritual sense from a Christian PoV, but don't expect Jewish people to accept them as halchically (sp?) Jewish.

So what is a Jew, if I ask you?
A person to be Jewish is supposed to reject Jesus, right?

 

[Quiddity]

The Declaration Dabru emet, signed by over 300 Rabbis deserves a glance in light of this topic:

In recent years, there has been a dramatic and unprecedented shift in Jewish and Christian relations. Throughout the nearly two millennia of Jewish exile, Christians have tended to characterize Judaism as a failed religion or, at best, a religion that prepared the way for, and is completed in, Christianity. In the decades since the Holocaust, however, Christianity has changed dramatically. An increasing number of official Church bodies, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, have made public statements of their remorse about Christian mistreatment of Jews and Judaism. … We believe these changes merit a thoughtful Jewish response. Speaking only for ourselves -- an interdenominational group of Jewish scholars -- we believe it is time for Jews to learn about the efforts of Christians to honor Judaism. We believe it is time for Jews to reflect on what Judaism may now say about Christianity.