Relationship between Judaism and Christianity

[outhouse]

It really isn't. Having it masquerade as something else like they were watered down Jews is just plain disingenuous. You mean like many other Jews at the time? You'd be hard pressed to distinguish St. Peter as anything but Jewish and is even mentioned in some Jewish writings (non-canonical and medieval).

There is nothing of peter at all that has any historicity to the real Galilean Peter.

It is not masquerading anything at all, within a few decades the whole movement was trashing jews blaiming them for Jesus death.

The movement and mythology grew in Hellenistic Judaism, which was a group that was never fully Jewish. They were Proselytes at best.

It was a group that wanted nothing to do with traditional Judaism, but wanted the one god.

 

[jewscout]

Without you actually understanding Christian theology and how acts of charity, not just spiritual faith mean something, we will continue to disagree on how far stretch it really is. At the very least, some Rabbis are beginning to see similarities.

I would say the same thing to you regarding Jewish theology

 

[outhouse]

Well, we Christians believe that man is as important as God. We believe in man's divinity, so there is no difference between God and man

Yet early christians were competing with the living emperors divinity.

Mortal men were divine back then, not just gods.

After all, the emperor was the "son of god", before jesus was even born.

 

[Estro Felino]

But it is entirely improper for Christians to claim to be Jewish: that is replacement theology, and is disrespectful at best, anti-Semitic at worst.

ha ha ha. this is funny. Actually it would sound anti-Semitic if I said that I don't consider myself Jewish. So am I against myself?

 

[Quiddity]

I'd say that is probably a foolish limb to be on.

In my experience the only education many Christians receive concerning Judaism comes from their interpretation of the Tanakh, and that has been produced to lay the ground work for Christianity.

When I was a Christian I though I knew all about Judaism; I learned about it every Wednesday night and Sunday morning after all. My entire religion was based on it, right?

Boy was I in for a surprise. Imagine my reaction when I delved into my first book written by a rabbi rather than a Christian; all of the ideas I had about Judaism flew out the window and was left bewildered by the complete lack of knowledge I had about the origins of everything my religion was supposedly based on.

The original Christians probably did share much with the Jews of that time, and the two religions would have been closely connected. But that was millennia ago, and the Christianity of today is far removed from its beginnings and the Judaism it once split from.

I suppose it's useless to note that some Jews become Catholic. Not 2,000 years ago, but now. They even have a fancy website:

hebrewcatholic.net

Perhaps from your estimation, they probably didn't know a thing about being a Jew.

 

[Levite]

In other words, by using a childish language: We accept you Jews, but you don't accept us.
because we use Jewish songs in our Masses, and we have even borrowed the music of Ha Tikva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWePGSeapVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr3MLJ3JGiQ

That's not "accepting you Jews" that's just appropriating Jewish culture.

So what is a Jew, if I ask you?
A person to be Jewish is supposed to reject Jesus, right?

To be Jewish, among other things, one must adhere only to the laws and teachings of the Torah, and the interpretation of the Rabbis of the Talmud, and must abjure any and all other religions and forms of worship.

It's not specific to Jesus: one cannot be Jewish and Muslim at the same time, or Jewish and Hindu, or Jewish and follow the Navajo Way, or whatever. Jesus has nothing to do with how we frame being a Jew, because he himself has no importance: he was just another unfortunate Jew killed by the Romans, like thousands of other Jews. That he may have falsely claimed the messianic mantle might make him a heretic, but no more than that, and lots of people have been heretics. It is the non-Jewish followers of his students who made him a god, and that can never be compatible with Judaism, in any way.

 

[columbus]

Well, we Christians believe that man is as important as God. We believe in man's divinity, so there is no difference between God and man

Dang. A gay Catholic Jew who understands this little about homosex, Catholicism and Judaism?

Tom

 

[xkatz]

Okay: let's wonder I want to become Jewish. I would do all the process and then I would be circumcised and accepted in the Jewish community.
I would do it. Surely, because your God is my God, so it's absolutely irrelevant to pray God in a synagogue or in a Church.

To a very limited extent, yes. However, that is not to say that Christians and Jews each have a different praxis. How Jews practice Judaism and how Christians practice Christianity is very different, which is why you don't see many Jews flocking to a church or Christians to a synagogue.

But I would still believe in my heart and secretly, that Jesus is God's son. And that he came to teach us Love and to erase Evil from this Earth. Obviously without revealing this to any rabbi or to any Jew

Ok but your beliefs would be outside normative Judaism. Though Judaism is not as focused on belief or dogma to the point Christianity is, there are a few fundamentals almost all Jews believe in.

 

[Tarheeler]

I suppose it's useless to note that some Jews become Catholic. Not 2,000 years ago, but now. They even have a fancy website:

hebrewcatholic.net

Perhaps from your estimation, they probably didn't know a thing about being a Jew.

Why would assume I would think that?

Learning about Judaism didn't cause me to leave Christianity; I began to study Judaism, as well as several other religions, because I had already left Christianity. My anecdote was to illustrate the type of "education" most Christians had been exposed to and how lacking it was in regards to Jewish theology.

 

[Levite]

ha ha ha. this is funny. Actually it would sound anti-Semitic if I said that I don't consider myself Jewish. So am I against myself?

You're not against yourself because you're not a Jew. Calling yourself one doesn't make you one. I could call myself Japanese all the live long day, and it wouldn't make me Japanese.

You are a non-Jew who is claiming the right to determine who is and who is not a Jew, and what it means to be Jewish, and what is and is not acceptable behavior and belief for Jews.

That is disrespectful, if not anti-Semitic.

Just as much so as if an American or Russian, with no blood connection to Italy or even knowledge of Italian culture and language, claimed to be Sicilian, and claimed (along with his fellows) to have the right to decide who is and isn't a Sicilian, and felt comfortable telling actual Sicilians what it means to be Sicilian, and why their Sicilian-ness was insufficient or outmoded, while his was correct.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's not "accepting you Jews" that's just appropriating Jewish culture.

Well, Muslims claim that Jesus is one of the main five prophets of Islam. When they say that, I don't accuse them "of appropriating Christian culture".
Au contraire, it's a honor for a Christian, and I am really happy to hear it.

 

[outhouse]

Well, Muslims claim that Jesus is one of the main five prophets of Islam. When they say that, I don't accuse them "of appropriating Christian culture".
Au contraire, it's a honor for a Christian, and I am really happy to hear it.

You may be missing history here.

Jews used the Canaanite religion and mesopotamian religions before them, for their own cultural needs.

Christians used jewish and pagan religions for their own needs

Muslims used previous abrahamic religions for their own cultural needs.


It was just a cycle

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Because it's inconceivable that God can come out from a woman's vagina, right?
Too humiliating, right?

Well, we Christians believe that man is as important as God. We believe in man's divinity, so there is no difference between God and man

Hey... I have no dog in this fight. I'm only sharing. I'm only telling you what others are telling you. Personally I can find more similarities between Muslims and Jews than I can with Christians and Jews. This isn't a slam against Christianity.

 

[columbus]

It is not masquerading anything at all, within a few decades the whole movement was trashing jews blaiming them for Jesus death.

While simultaneously claiming that it was long predicted and required by God for Salvation!

Tom

 

[Estro Felino]

You're not against yourself because you're not a Jew. Calling yourself one doesn't make you one. I could call myself Japanese all the live long day, and it wouldn't make me Japanese.

You are a non-Jew who is claiming the right to determine who is and who is not a Jew, and what it means to be Jewish, and what is and is not acceptable behavior and belief for Jews.

That is disrespectful, if not anti-Semitic.
Just as much so as if an American or Russian, with no blood connection to Italy or even knowledge of Italian culture and language, claimed to be Sicilian, and claimed (along with his fellows) to have the right to decide who is and isn't a Sicilian, and felt comfortable telling actual Sicilians what it means to be Sicilian, and why their Sicilian-ness was insufficient or outmoded, while his was correct.

The great issue is that Jews have always mixed up culture (or nationality) with religion. They are two different things.
Christians don't have this problem. A Christian can be from any part of the world. They can be Spanish, Japanese, Africans etc etc
Muslims don't have this problem either.

By the way, it would be a honor that a Russian considered themselves Sicilian.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well, Muslims claim that Jesus is one of the main five prophets of Islam. When they say that, I don't accuse them "of appropriating Christian culture".
Au contraire, it's a honor for a Christian, and I am really happy to hear it.

And while that is a difference between Judaism and Islam..Muslims share the "oneness" of "God" with Jews and don't make Yeshua (Issa) to be "God" incarnate. In this the Jew and the Muslim have more in common with each other than the Jew and the Christian.

 

[outhouse]

. What needs do you speak of?

The need to follow the one all powerful god that was so appealing, Romans and Hellenist had already sperated from traditional Judaism with their own versions and laws. All before Jesus birth.

There were generations of proselytes that would not fully convert but worshipped Judaism. It was these people in the Diaspora that found importance in Jesus death.

The Jews did not, that confirmed to them he was a failed messiah. And thus, we have no writings at all from real Jews.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You may be missing history here.

Jews used the Canaanite religion and mesopotamian religions before them, for their own cultural needs.

Christians used jewish and pagan religions for their own needs

Muslims used previous abrahamic religions for their own cultural needs.


It was just a cycle

This...:clap

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The great issue is that Jews have always mixed up culture (or nationality) with religion. They are two different things.
Christians don't have this problem. A Christian can be from any part of the world. They can be Spanish, Japanese, Africans etc etc
Muslims don't have this problem either.

The ignorance here is stunning to the point of being laughable.

 

[jewscout]

The great issue is that Jews have always mixed up culture (or nationality) with religion. They are two different things.
Christians don't have this problem. A Christian can be from any part of the world. They can be Spanish, Japanese, Africans etc etc
Muslims don't have this problem either.

and yet we are the religion that doesn't have a long standing history of forcing everyone to be like us