Relationship between Judaism and Christianity

[Tarheeler]

I thought it would be interesting to see what Christians think about Jews and vice-versa.

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish. Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.

I think the relationship is the same as the one between Jew and Muslim, Christian and Muslim, and Muslim and Baha'i: Each share some commonality, but are distinct and separate groups with their own identities. A Christian is no more a Jew than a Jew is a Baha'i.

As for your "declaration", it means nothing. Jewish law, not Christian theology, dictates who is a Jew.

 

[Estro Felino]

is your mother Jewish or did you go through some sort of recognized conversion process where you learned what it means to live by the Torah or to be a part of Am Yisrael? If not then you are not Jewish.

also just because Christians didn't remove Jewish text doesn't mean your faith is based on Jewish theological constructs, because it isn't. Christianity is a completely different faith than Judaism.

In other words, by using a childish language: We accept you Jews, but you don't accept us.
because we use Jewish songs in our Masses, and we have even borrowed the music of Ha Tikva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWePGSeapVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr3MLJ3JGiQ

 

[Quiddity]

Christianity is a completely different faith than Judaism.

That really is a stretch. Especially considering that there is very few Jews that understand Christian theological constructs and philosophical underpinnings.

I'll go ahead and go out on a limb on this but I'm fairly certain the Christians do more reading of Judaism then Jews do about Christianity. Just a thought.

 

[outhouse]

The first Christians were Jews. What needs do you speak of?

Debateable how Jewish they were. The movement failed in Judaism upon Jesus death.

The movement only grew in the diaspora within Hellenistic communities by Proselytes to Judaism and gentiles.


The Hellenistic Jews of the Empire had long wanted to follow the monotheistic god, but did not want to fully convert.

The word Judaism itself had become so wide and diverse and multi cultural, that people swearing off all pagan gods to the one god could be considered Jews without fully converting [Jewish encyclopedia on proselytes]


There is no evidence at all of any Galilean movement after his death. There is nothing at all from traditional born and raised Jews. Only Hellenist and gentiles.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

No you are not Jewish.

The NT did not follow Judaism, it perverted it beyond what was written, changing it.

It added a god to monotheism. Found itself in a catch 22 and created the trinity to justify the changes.

I've never heard it put this way before....but I LIKE IT.....:yes:

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish.

It's hard to imagine a single sentence which so clearly conveys such utter ignorance of both Christianity and Judaism, as well as religion in general.

 

[Sees]

Yes, Do you mind? I believe in divine justice, and God blesses those who thirst for justice, because they will be filled.

The money-hungry and the greedy people will rot in Hell. This will be my satisfaction.

I don't hate them. I want them to be happy, rich and healthy in this life. But not in the Afterlife. I want their souls to be imprisoned in Hell. They could have chosen altruism, but they chose selfishness.

The point is - thousands upon thousands of pagan peoples from ancient times would say similar things. Greedy, lusty, blood-thirsty bad people image is propaganda that Church-centric education and politics developed and spread. You should read some of the thoughts and teachings from old Roman pagans.

 

[xkatz]

So what is a Jew, if I ask you?
A person to be Jewish is supposed to reject Jesus, right?

I will quote Wiki because I think it gives a good idea of what a Jew is according to Jewish law:

Today, only halakha can define who is or is not a Jew when a question of Jewish identity, lineage, or parentage arises about any person seeking to define themselves or claim that they are Jewish. As a result, mere belief in the principles of Judaism does not make one a Jew. Similarly, non-adherence by a Jew to the 613 Mitzvot, or even formal conversion to another religion, does not make one lose one's Jewish status. Thus the immediate descendants of all female Jews (even apostates) are still considered to be Jews, as are those of all their female descendants. Even those descendants who are not aware they are Jews, or practice a religion other than Judaism, are defined by this perspective as Jews, as long as they come from an unbroken female line of descent.

 

[jewscout]

That really is a stretch. Especially considering that there is very few Jews that understand Christian theological constructs and philosophical underpinnings.

I'll go ahead and go out on a limb on this but I'm fairly certain the Christians do more reading of Judaism then Jews do about Christianity. Just a thought.

it's not really that far of a stretch, one need only look at the 2 faiths view on "the law" to see the differences, especially when you consider the centrality of Halacha in Judaism and its lack of importance in Christianity.

 

[outhouse]

Pauls Judaism has always been debated. And he is the first important person recirding the early movements in the diaspora.

History of early Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the relationship of Paul of Tarsus and Judaism is still disputed today.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We didn't create any new cultural identity. Myriam was Jewish and her son, Jesus, was Jewish too.

If that's the case then Why aren't you Jewish following the laws and customs of Judaism just as Yeshua and his mother did. Yeshua says explicitly, according to your NT, that his followers were to follow the laws...

It's not my fault if the woman who incarnated God in her womb was Jewish.

This is the striking difference between christians and jews. I'd dare say Muslims have more in common with Jews than Christians..

 

[Quiddity]

Debateable how Jewish they were.

It really isn't. Having it masquerade as something else like they were watered down Jews is just plain disingenuous. You mean like many other Jews at the time? You'd be hard pressed to distinguish St. Peter as anything but Jewish and is even mentioned in some Jewish writings (non-canonical and medieval).

 

[jewscout]

In other words, by using a childish language: We accept you Jews, but you don't accept us.
because we use Jewish songs in our Masses, and we have even borrowed the music of Ha Tikva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWePGSeapVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr3MLJ3JGiQ

you are right that is childish.

we accept people as they are and are not commanded to make them something they aren't

 

[Estro Felino]

I will quote Wiki because I think it gives a good idea of what a Jew is according to Jewish law:

Okay: let's wonder I want to become Jewish. I would do all the process and then I would be circumcised and accepted in the Jewish community.
I would do it. Surely, because your God is my God, so it's absolutely irrelevant to pray God in a synagogue or in a Church.

But I would still believe in my heart and secretly, that Jesus is God's son. And that he came to teach us Love and to erase Evil from this Earth. Obviously without revealing this to any rabbi or to any Jew

 

[jewscout]

Okay: let's wonder I want to become Jewish. I would do all the process and then I would be circumcised and accepted in the Jewish community.
I would do it. Surely, because your God is my God, so it's absolutely irrelevant to pray God in a synagogue or in a Church.

But I would still believe in my heart and secretly, that Jesus is God's son. And that he came to teach us Love and to erase Evil from this Earth.

then stay a non-Jew, there's nothing wrong with that

 

[Quiddity]

it's not really that far of a stretch, one need only look at the 2 faiths view on "the law" to see the differences, especially when you consider the centrality of Halacha in Judaism and its lack of importance in Christianity.

Without you actually understanding Christian theology and how acts of charity, not just spiritual faith mean something, we will continue to disagree on how far stretch it really is. At the very least, some Rabbis are beginning to see similarities.

 

[Tarheeler]

That really is a stretch. Especially considering that there is very few Jews that understand Christian theological constructs and philosophical underpinnings.

I'll go ahead and go out on a limb on this but I'm fairly certain the Christians do more reading of Judaism then Jews do about Christianity. Just a thought.

I'd say that is probably a foolish limb to be on.

In my experience the only education many Christians receive concerning Judaism comes from their interpretation of the Tanakh, and that has been produced to lay the ground work for Christianity.

When I was a Christian I though I knew all about Judaism; I learned about it every Wednesday night and Sunday morning after all. My entire religion was based on it, right?

Boy was I in for a surprise. Imagine my reaction when I delved into my first book written by a rabbi rather than a Christian; all of the ideas I had about Judaism flew out the window and was left bewildered by the complete lack of knowledge I had about the origins of everything my religion was supposedly based on.

The original Christians probably did share much with the Jews of that time, and the two religions would have been closely connected. But that was millennia ago, and the Christianity of today is far removed from its beginnings and the Judaism it once split from.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So what is a Jew, if I ask you?
A person to be Jewish is supposed to reject Jesus, right?

Jews don't reject Yeshua the man. They reject the portrayal by ardent followers that he is 1.) The Messiah and 2.) God incarnate. I'm sure there are others but these two are a couple of the main reasons...

 

[Levite]

I thought it would be interesting to see what Christians think about Jews and vice-versa.

Judaism and Christianity are two different religions. They share a small amount of mutual history, in that many of the original founders of Christianity began as Jews. But they created a different religion, and became something else. Christianity shares some textual heritage with Judaism, because they claim our scriptures as part of their Bible, but that sharing is minimal, as their uses and interpretations of our texts are incompatible with Judaism, and contrary to the tradition that produced them.

Despite the radical differences of incompatible theologies, Judaism and Christianity do have some common ground together, but it often proves hard to stand together on it, due to the lengthy history of Christian oppression of Jews, and the frequency which with replacement theology still appears in Christian communities. Nonetheless, some interfaith dialogues and relationships have produced promising and fruitful results.

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish. Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.

Nope. Christians are not Jewish. A Jew is someone who was born to a Jewish mother, or who has been properly converted to Judaism according to Jewish law. Christians are non-Jews, and moreover, most of the doctrines of Christianity are incompatible with Judaism, and therefore the two religions are mutually exclusive.

Whether the Christians have ever changed any of the Tanach is subject to debate, seeing as most Christians read the Tanach in translation, most of which contain errors, some of which have been used to create points of Christian doctrine.

But whether the Christians have disclaimed the Tanach or not doesn't matter, since they don't follow the laws of the Torah, usually misunderstand the laws and the prophecies in the Tanach, and in fact regularly break numerous important commandments-- which is fine for them, since the commandments were given to the Jewish People, and Christians are not Jewish.

But it is entirely improper for Christians to claim to be Jewish: that is replacement theology, and is disrespectful at best, anti-Semitic at worst.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is the striking difference between christians and jews. I'd dare say Muslims have more in common with Jews than Christians..

Because it's inconceivable that God can come out from a woman's vagina, right?
Too humiliating, right?

Well, we Christians believe that man is as important as God. We believe in man's divinity, so there is no difference between God and man