Religion and Classism

[Kenny]

You can attempt to do whatever you want. But you are just punning with polysemes.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's one of the common responses from anti-abortion religious people when discussing the financial burden of children on the poor. Especially, but not exclusively, for those who also deplore contraception. Non-religious people who are against abortion don't tend to use that one.

Proof? It's a pretty obvious statement.

 

[ppp]

Proof? It's a pretty obvious statement.

If you want to disbelieve me, then feel free.

 

[Truth in love]

We are in accord there.

Do they? We would necessarily be doing a vein to vein transfusion on the way to the hospital. Should you, the donor, be legally compelled to stay attached as long as my life is in danger? I don't think you should.

Let’s make this a tad more accurate. You need bone marrow. I’m a match. I consent. Actions are taken where now without me following through you will die.

Can I withdraw my freely given consent (not for any drastic reason, but just because I feel like or wish your death) or do I need to follow though on my commitment as your life is forgot If I change my mind?

 

[ppp]

Let’s make this a tad more accurate. You need bone marrow. I’m a match. I consent. Actions are taken where now without me following through you will die.

More accurate. I am not sure what you think the difference is.

Can I withdraw my freely given consent (not for any drastic reason, but just because I feel like or wish your death) or do I need to follow though on my commitment as your life is forgot If I change my mind?

You have no legal obligation to provide your bone marrow to me. You can withdraw at any point. If you wake up during the harvesting with a needle in your hip, you can withdraw then.

You may feel that you have a moral obligation, but you do not have a legal obligation.

 

[Truth in love]

More accurate. I am not sure what you think the difference is.

You have no legal obligation to provide your bone marrow to me. You can withdraw at any point. If you wake up during the harvesting with a needle in your hip, you can withdraw then.

You may feel that you have a moral obligation, but you do not have a legal obligation.

So I can agree, and then change my mind and kill you in the process?

I can't go there. I'm big on personal liberty, but one of the core valid functions of government is the enforcement of a contract. Its one thing to decline your request, but when the line is crossed and your life hangs on my following through on my agreement its wrong to change my mind and kill you.

 

[ppp]

So I can agree, and then change my mind and kill you in the process?

Are you under the impression that you can be legally obligated to provide part of your body to me?

I can't go there. I'm big on personal liberty, but one of the core valid functions of government is the enforcement of a contract.

You cannot make a legal contract to provide part of your body to another person. Such donations are always unencumbered gifts.

 

[Sheldon]

Can I withdraw my freely given consent (not for any drastic reason, but just because I feel like

What are you suggesting, that your change of mind be ignored, and your body be forcibly used against your will?

We will tear your perineum for good measure, and render you incontinent for the rest of your life. Also you will have to look after him for a minimum of 18 years afterward. You did agree after all... unlike a pregnant woman of course, who in most cases would not have agreed to pregnancy, let alone childbirth.

 

[Sheldon]

So I can agree, and then change my mind and kill you in the process?

Of course, though you wouldn't be directly killing him obviously, that's just the kind of risible hyperbolic rhetoric anti-choicers love.

I can't go there. I'm big on personal liberty, but one of the core valid functions of government is the enforcement of a contract.

Since when is an unwanted pregnancy a contract? That's an asinine rhetoric.

Its one thing to decline your request, but when the line is crossed and your life hangs on my following through on my agreement its wrong to change my mind and kill you.

You're not killing him, whatever has necessitude the transplant is doing that. Do you drive a car, use fossil fuels, even indirectly, are you ok then with killing the people who will die inevitably from the resulting climate change?

 

[ppp]

So I can agree, and then change my mind and kill you in the process?

I can't go there. I'm big on personal liberty, but one of the core valid functions of government is the enforcement of a contract. Its one thing to decline your request, but when the line is crossed and your life hangs on my following through on my agreement its wrong to change my mind and kill you.

Follow up...
Regarding consent...
Can a woman consent to sex, then withdraw her consent before her partner is done?

 

[Truth in love]

Are you under the impression that you can be legally obligated to provide part of your body to me?


You cannot make a legal contract to provide part of your body to another person. Such donations are always unencumbered gifts.

If I make that agreement and your life hinges on it it would be consistent to have the government enforce the contract. Now I doubt such a law is on the books, but the concept is well established in our code of law.

 

[Truth in love]

Follow up...
Regarding consent...
Can a woman consent to sex, then withdraw her consent before her partner is done?

In theory maybe, but practically no. To allow the sudden withdrawal of consent can make anyone a rapist in a split second.

 

[VoidCat]

In theory maybe, but practically no. To allow the sudden withdrawal of consent can make anyone a rapist in a split second.

Ah I don't see how. If the person says stop and withdraws consent then the person they are with can stop having sex with them. Why wouldn't they be able to stop having sex?

It's only rape if the person continues once the consent is withdrawn

 

[Sheldon]

If I make that agreement and your life hinges on it it would be consistent to have the government enforce the contract.

What contract? Someone having sex is not a contract, even assuming it is consensual.

Now I doubt such a law is on the books,

Gerrraway...

the concept is well established in our code of law.

COUGH<BS>COUGH....

 

[Sheldon]

Policy said: ↑
Follow up...
Regarding consent...
Can a woman consent to sex, then withdraw her consent before her partner is done?

In theory maybe, but practically no.

That's called rape, you're posts are really starting to worry me more and more.

To allow the sudden withdrawal of consent can make anyone a rapist in a split second.

Phew, good, for a minute there I was worried you didn't get that.

Lets try a simple analogy, I give someone a lift, a month later they turn up and insist their friends can use my car for nine months whether I like it or not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In theory maybe, but practically no. To allow the sudden withdrawal of consent can make anyone a rapist in a split second.

Just remember you are a Christian.
I am a Satanist and for sex consent is everything. If consent is withdrawn and the other party proceeds, that person is a rapist.

 

[Sheldon]

Just remember you are a Christian.
I am a Satanist and for sex consent is everything. If consent is withdrawn and the other party proceeds, that person is a rapist.

Only a rapist would disagree with this fundamental fact.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only a rapist would disagree with this fundamental fact.

No, it has more to do with the opinion a woman is supposed to be submissive, along with very dated ideas of male sexuality. You'll likely find even many women in the circles who teach such things would agree.

 

[ppp]

If I make that agreement and your life hinges on it it would be consistent to have the government enforce the contract. Now I doubt such a law is on the books, but the concept is well established in our code of law.

Go to a lawyer and try to draw up a contract between you and another person for a body part. Organ. Bone marrow blood. When you get through utterly failing to get her to agree that you have a point, then we can carry on.

 

[ppp]

In theory maybe, but practically no. To allow the sudden withdrawal of consent can make anyone a rapist in a split second.

Well, that is a little disturbing. It can make one a rapist if one lacks concern for one's partner. Sex is more than the moment of climax, you know.