Religion and Classism

[Truth in love]

Why is this even a point of contention? Why are you negotiating for time? Why are you comparing interpersonal awareness between two people intimately entangled to giving 30 days notice to a lease. This is all very suss.

I was simply pointing out that no notice revocation of consent does not work well in the real world.


Back on the main topic. When does the baby give their consent for an abortion?

 

[ppp]

I mean at least in my country there are supports. Also isn't that an issue with everything? I mean why arnt we old furious that we can't own a yacht!?

I don't think that the biological imperative to bond with ones mate or to produce children is comparable to wanting a yacht.

 

[tarasan]

I don't think that the biological imperative to bond with ones mate or to produce children is comparable to wanting a yacht.

Firstly it's not a right to have children that is something you choose to do. And honestly the vast majority can and do have have children and manage. I work with single mums who live on the poverty line while it's hard they get by. Also contraceptives which can be budgeted for.

 

[ppp]

Firstly it's not a right to have children that is something you choose to do. And honestly the vast majority can and do have have children and manage. I work with single mums who live on the poverty line while it's hard they get by. Also contraceptives which can be budgeted for.

That is another non-sequitur.

 

[ppp]

I was simply pointing out that no notice revocation of consent does not work well in the real world.

And as we have pointed out, you are wrong. In fact, both @Shadow Wolf and I have told you that we (separately) practice constant awareness of consent in the real world. As do others, including a large community of people who are dedicated to that standard. What you are doing is looking for ways to excuse your responsibility to acknowledge the withdrawal of consent by your partner. I hope you reconsider that.

Back on the main topic. When does the baby give their consent for an abortion?

Convince me that you understand consent. At the moment you seem to think it only applies to what you want.

 

[tarasan]

That is another non-sequitur.

I mean if u could explain why that would be helpful

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I was simply pointing out that no notice revocation of consent does not work well in the real world.


Back on the main topic. When does the baby give their consent for an abortion?

If someone withdraws consent and you do not honor that you are a rapist. There are no excuses are arguing around this.
Lots of people have no problem with this. Why do you?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

okay so back to the abortion bit. When and how do you get get JR’s consent to die?

Assuming this is before brain activity and personhood, there is no consent. It's no different than pulling the plug on someone who's brain dead.

 

[ppp]

I mean if u could explain why that would be helpful

Sure. In one post you equated wanting to be able to have and support one's children with wanting to own a yacht. You were challenged on the validity of that comparison. Your next post was not an attempt to defend that claim, but merely three more unrelated assertions.

You seem to be merely making a bunch of bald assertions with with no connective line of reasoning or foundational support. A sort of textual Gish Gallop.

 

[Truth in love]

And as we have pointed out, you are wrong. In fact, both @Shadow Wolf and I have told you that we (separately) practice constant awareness of consent in the real world. As do others, including a large community of people who are dedicated to that standard. What you are doing is looking for ways to excuse your responsibility to acknowledge the withdrawal of consent by your partner. I hope you reconsider that.


Convince me that you understand consent. At the moment you seem to think it only applies to what you want.

I understand consent. You have made it clear that it’s vital, but only to be applied in some situations. It clearly matters greatly between to adults, but when we have one of the most extreme power differences possible you dismiss it.

I don’t need to prove that I agree with your view. It would be nice though it you would apply this rule you put so much stock in to a very real situation.

 

[Truth in love]

If someone withdraws consent and you do not honor that you are a rapist. There are no excuses are arguing around this.
Lots of people have no problem with this. Why do you?

You are missing or avoiding the point. Consent matters a ton, but not for a persons life?

 

[Truth in love]

Assuming this is before brain activity and personhood, there is no consent. It's no different than pulling the plug on someone who's brain dead.

We can’t detect brain activity is different from there is none.

 

[ppp]

I understand consent.

I do not believe you.

You have made it clear that it’s vital, but only to be applied in some situations.

I have not made it clear that it is only to be applied in certain situations. Which is why, in addition to your disturbing notions about sex, I do not believe that you understand consent.

I don’t need to prove that I agree with your view.

You dictate your needs. Not me. I am simply telling you what you have communicated.

 

[Truth in love]

I do not believe you.

I have not made it clear that it is only to be applied in certain situations. Which is why, in addition to your disturbing notions about sex, I do not believe that you understand consent.

You dictate your needs. Not me. I am simply telling you what you have communicated.

You keep trying to twist my comment about needing to to mean I don’t understand consent.

let’s say I invite you to dinner. (I consent) while at dinner I take dislike to you and tell you to leave. (I withdraw consent). I decide to shot you without giving you time to leave the house.

Are you in the wrong beside I withdrew my consent and did not allow you time to change your actions?

 

[ppp]

You keep trying to twist my comment about needing to to mean I don’t understand consent.

I cannot parse that sentence.

let’s say I invite you to dinner. (I consent) while at dinner I take dislike to you and tell you to leave. (I withdraw consent). I decide to shot you without giving you time to leave the house.

You have raised this scenario before, so I will just repeat myself. This is not a case of you defending your bodily rights, and is therefore not analogous to withdrawing consent to pregnancy, or to sex, or to blood donations.

Do you understand that my sitting at your dinner table is not a violation of your bodily rights?

 

[Sheldon]

I understand consent.


You have made it clear that it’s vital, but only to be applied in some situations.

Why would you need this to made clear to you, and in what situations do you (worryingly) imagine sexual consent would not apply?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We can’t detect brain activity is different from there is none.

There is none that is necessary for personhood. Someone who is brain dead is nothing more than an automated shell of the person who died. Just as their is none of this brain activity until later in pregnancy.

 

[Truth in love]

I cannot parse that sentence.

You have raised this scenario before, so I will just repeat myself. This is not a case of you defending your bodily rights, and is therefore not analogous to withdrawing consent to pregnancy, or to sex, or to blood donations.

Do you understand that my sitting at your dinner table is not a violation of your bodily rights?

Okay well it seems you are unwilling to discuss the actual issue. Peace

 

[ppp]

Okay well it seems you are unwilling to discuss the actual issue. Peace

Bodily rights are where I stand on the issue of abortion and sex and pregnancy and tissue donations. If you wish to address a different argument than bodily rights then you find someone who holds that different view. If you feel need to blame me for not flip-flopping to an easy argument for you to contend with then by all means feel free.

Ciao.