Religion and homosexuality

[Witch of Hope]

When in California the marriage was cancelled for homosexual people again (because of Prop 8), and the LDS "church" was involved in it, I put to myself some questions. A question was, why the religions fight so much against the marriage of homosexual people. Why they spend so much money to keep the civil rights from American citizens. Because to marry is a civil right. A religion has nothing to do with it.
An other question which I put to myself was, why just the LDS was so crazily to prevent gay rights? Is the LDS homophobic, although in their own church history many famous homosexual appeared? Or did they have fear that would be taken away a little bit of their rights, and they could be made accept such marriages ecclesiastically? ​

Does a connection exist at all between the attacks (verbally, physically, institutionally) on homosexual people, with (Christian) religions?
What do you mean?​

 

[gnomon]

Welcome to the forums.

This is going to be fun.

Or rather, after all the discussions last year on the Prop 8 debate, there is a serious burnout over the whole thing.

But just to end in my opinion, all religious groups should get out of the business of trying to get the State to legislate for their particular religious views. That opinion is probably expressed by the majority of religious believers on this forum. Not that I impose to speak for them but just my experience of their stated views. That applies to the majority of LDS on this forum as well.

 

[Witch of Hope]

I guess that a lot of LDS members are concerned about how this "church" act.
There is a minority in this church, maybe a huge minority, who thinks, that we should get married. Some of them maybe believe, that even queers should have pain and suffer, not only straight couple.

 

[Atruthseeker]

When in California the marriage was cancelled for homosexual people again (because of Prop 8), and the LDS "church" was involved in it, I put to myself some questions. A question was, why the religions fight so much against the marriage of homosexual people. Why they spend so much money to keep the civil rights from American citizens. Because to marry is a civil right. A religion has nothing to do with it.
An other question which I put to myself was, why just the LDS was so crazily to prevent gay rights? Is the LDS homophobic, although in their own church history many famous homosexual appeared? Or did they have fear that would be taken away a little bit of their rights, and they could be made accept such marriages ecclesiastically?
Does a connection exist at all between the attacks (verbally, physically, institutionally) on homosexual people, with (Christian) religions?
What do you mean?​

Who instituted marriage? Who invented it, as it were?

 

[Sunstone]

Who instituted marriage? Who invented it, as it were?

Marriage -- which is in essence a publicly declared pair bond -- seems to be a behavior instinctual to our species -- which would suggest it is as old as our species. So, it could date back as much as 260,000 years. There is no known inventor.

 

[MissAlice]

I think this is one among the many troubles we have in the U.S. as opposed to most of europe's government.

Religion is deeply rooted and involved in our government and politics. Ironically most countries like the U.K. have done a better job at separating church and state than the U.S.

 

[sojourner]

When in California the marriage was cancelled for homosexual people again (because of Prop 8), and the LDS "church" was involved in it, I put to myself some questions. A question was, why the religions fight so much against the marriage of homosexual people. Why they spend so much money to keep the civil rights from American citizens. Because to marry is a civil right. A religion has nothing to do with it.
An other question which I put to myself was, why just the LDS was so crazily to prevent gay rights? Is the LDS homophobic, although in their own church history many famous homosexual appeared? Or did they have fear that would be taken away a little bit of their rights, and they could be made accept such marriages ecclesiastically?
Does a connection exist at all between the attacks (verbally, physically, institutionally) on homosexual people, with (Christian) religions?
What do you mean?​

What is the law concerning homosexual marriage in Deutschland?

 

[dust1n]

Just a mere distraction for middle- and low-class citizens to channel their class frustration at one another.

 

[Witch of Hope]

Who instituted marriage? Who invented it, as it were?

Governments, not churches. Religions had traditions to bless a married couple or to wish the younger generation here. But NO religion had created the institution Marriage. And also no God.

 

[dust1n]

Governments, not churches. Religions had traditions to bless a married couple or to wish the younger generation here. But NO religion had created the institution Marriage. And also no God.

:High-five:

 

[Baydwin]

I think this is one among the many troubles we have in the U.S. as opposed to most of europe's government.

Religion is deeply rooted and involved in our government and politics. Ironically most countries like the U.K. have done a better job at separating church and state than the U.S.

Which is funny because our Church and the secular state aren't even officially separated, with the Queen being the head of the Church of England.

 

[Witch of Hope]

What is the law concerning homosexual marriage in Deutschland?

Good question! Because of the pressure of the churches there was none of the heterosexual marriage equal form. There is a sort of in France. We mention it "registered long-term relationship" ("eingetragene Partnerschaft"). That is both partners have the same duties like married couples, but only few rights of heterosexual couples. A gay couple pays taxes in such a way, as if he is alone, and also children bring no tax discharge. It is bad, but better as nothing. And as I already says, the religion is to blame for it!

 

[Atruthseeker]

Marriage -- which is in essence a publicly declared pair bond -- seems to be a behavior instinctual to our species -- which would suggest it is as old as our species. So, it could date back as much as 260,000 years. There is no known inventor.

Well, from a Biblical point of view, you are right, it is as old as our species, as right back in the garden of Eden, God paired Adam & Eve and instituted marriage.

 

[rageoftyrael]

that's hilarious. the bible is by no means a credible source. it's had parts and sections hacked out of it, that alone makes it suspect. if you really think about it, from a scientific point of view, creationism makes no logical sense. but that's just my opinion.

as to the ot, i'm guessing that they just have more homophobic people in lds. they of course have the age old excuse about god hating gay people, but let's not forget that the bible WAS written by a bunch of straight guys. so, i personally would take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Atruthseeker]

... if you really think about it, from a scientific point of view, creationism makes no logical sense. but that's just my opinion.

And my opinion is that for all the complex systems we see around us in life; from blood clotting, the reproductive systems including opposite sexes, the information contained in DNA, cellular complexity, vision, our sense of balance, to the marvel of the human brain with it's automatic functions, to have come about by random/unguided mutations is highly unlikely and not logial. But that is just my opinion and off topic!

 

[Baydwin]

Well, from a Biblical point of view, you are right, it is as old as our species, as right back in the garden of Eden, God paired Adam & Eve and instituted marriage.

How could they be married without a vicar or priest of some kind officiating? Where was the best man? Who recorded the union for tax purposes?
Seems to me they had more of a civil union than a marriage.

 

[Baydwin]

from blood clotting, the reproductive systems including opposite sexes, the information contained in DNA, cellular complexity, vision, our sense of balance, to the marvel of the human brain with it's automatic functions

Doesn't it make you wonder though that these often go wrong or don't work properly from birth? Considering the frequency of errors found in all these systems, they either point to an organic evolution or to a drunken, inefficient creator.

 

[DarkSun]

When in California the marriage was cancelled for homosexual people again (because of Prop 8), and the LDS "church" was involved in it, I put to myself some questions. A question was, why the religions fight so much against the marriage of homosexual people. Why they spend so much money to keep the civil rights from American citizens. Because to marry is a civil right. A religion has nothing to do with it.
An other question which I put to myself was, why just the LDS was so crazily to prevent gay rights? Is the LDS homophobic, although in their own church history many famous homosexual appeared? Or did they have fear that would be taken away a little bit of their rights, and they could be made accept such marriages ecclesiastically?
Does a connection exist at all between the attacks (verbally, physically, institutionally) on homosexual people, with (Christian) religions?
What do you mean?​

Why?

Because Freud was only half right.

Not only do some women have penis envy.

Some men do as well.

But they repress this envy, and use the Book of Leviticus or Deuteronomy to support it.

We call these men homophobes. And other things.

 

[DarkSun]

Doesn't it make you wonder though that these often go wrong or don't work properly from birth? Considering the frequency of errors found in all these systems, they either point to an organic evolution or to a drunken, inefficient creator.

Some of the best artists have deliberately put error in their work.

Not that homosexuality is a flaw.

 

[Baydwin]

Some of the best artists have deliberately put error in their work.

Not that homosexuality is a flaw.

Indeed, but it's strange that "the artist" should build this aspect into his creation and then punish them for his artistic flare. Some might even say nonsensical.