Religion and homosexuality

[Atruthseeker]

Doesn't it make you wonder though that these often go wrong or don't work properly from birth? Considering the frequency of errors found in all these systems, they either point to an organic evolution or to a drunken, inefficient creator.

Does it? We make imperfect things all the time. Ever used Vista? Even things that are considered to be engineering master pieces are still imperfect and subject to failure. The fact that things are more complex than they are imperfect, hints at design.

For example, iIf you made a three legged table that had two different legth legs and hardly managed to stay upright, then you could say that that is bad design. But if you built the engine of a Ferrari and it leaked a bit of oil, then that should be mostly overlooked in view of everything else that you got right. Imperfection does not mean there was no designer.

 

[Baydwin]

Does it? We make imperfect things all the time. Ever used Vista? Even things that are considered to be engineering master pieces are still imperfect and subject to failure. The fact that things are more complex than they are imperfect, hints at design.

For example, iIf you made a three legged table that had two different legth legs and hardly managed to stay upright, then you could say that that is bad design. But if you built the engine of a Ferrari and it leaked a bit of oil, then that should be mostly overlooked in view of everything else that you got right. Imperfection does not mean there was no designer.

So you're comparing human beings to a deity? Do you think the concepts approximate well?

 

[Atruthseeker]

So you're comparing human beings to a deity? Do you think the concepts approximate well?

Eh? No. Just making a point. Ok, answer me this. Do you think when God created the first human beings he made them with imperfections and with a view of death at after some years? Do you think that there may be another cause for the imperfection we see other than bad design by the creater?

 

[Baydwin]

Ok, answer me this. Do you think when God created the first human beings he made them with imperfections and with a view of death at after some years?

Not applicable to me.

Do you think that there may be another cause for the imperfection we see other than bad design by the creater?

Yes, organic evolution of forms. That things don't work correctly is testament to the fact that complex life arose chemically from the random mutations that occur in nucleic acid stands. There are innumerable examples of genetic disease, malfunctioning genes, unnecessary tissues, spontaneous abortion and degradation of DNA in later life that all testify to the naturally formed nature of the precarious, hodge-podge assembly of tissues that we call modern man.

 

[DarkSun]

Indeed, but it's strange that "the artist" should build this aspect into his creation and then punish them for his artistic flare. Some might even say nonsensical.

I'm glad no such tyrant exists, then.

 

[Atruthseeker]

.... There are innumerable examples of genetic disease, malfunctioning genes, unnecessary tissues, spontaneous abortion and degradation of DNA in later life that all testify to the naturally formed nature of the precarious, hodge-podge assembly of tissues that we call modern man.

Shows how little you know of the complexity of the human body.

 

[DarkSun]

Shows how little you know of the complexity of the human body.

That was a rather pedantic thing to do. :S

 

[LoTrobador]

I guess the point Baydwin was making was more like

There are innumerable examples of genetic disease, malfunctioning genes, unnecessary tissues, spontaneous abortion and degradation of DNA in later life that all testify to the naturally formed nature of the precarious, hodge-podge assembly of tissues that we call modern man.

than

There are innumerable examples of genetic disease, malfunctioning genes, unnecessary tissues, spontaneous abortion and degradation of DNA in later life that all testify to the naturally formed nature of the precarious, hodge-podge assembly of tissues that we call modern man.

so it seems to miss the point...

 

[Sunstone]

Well, from a Biblical point of view, you are right, it is as old as our species, as right back in the garden of Eden, God paired Adam & Eve and instituted marriage.

Surely you are not suggesting that the Garden of Eden myth is anything other than a myth?

 

[Atruthseeker]

That was a rather pedantic thing to do. :S

Ohh...sowweee. Tru tho!:guitar1:

 

[DarkSun]

Surely you are not suggesting that theh Garden of Eden myth is anything other than a myth? But if you are, may I ask how old you are?

Theh belief in theh literal Garden of Eden story doesn't necessarily make a person immature.

 

[DarkSun]

Ohh...sowweee. Tru tho!:guitar1:

Sorry Sunstone, I take that back.

 

[Atruthseeker]

Sorry Sunstone, I take that back.

Nice one!

 

[Kerr]

Does it? We make imperfect things all the time. Ever used Vista? Even things that are considered to be engineering master pieces are still imperfect and subject to failure. The fact that things are more complex than they are imperfect, hints at design.

For example, iIf you made a three legged table that had two different legth legs and hardly managed to stay upright, then you could say that that is bad design. But if you built the engine of a Ferrari and it leaked a bit of oil, then that should be mostly overlooked in view of everything else that you got right. Imperfection does not mean there was no designer.

Not really. For example, if I have a kid no one needs to design him or her, the way our reproductive system works will do that automatically. Just as stars form as a result of natural processes, no designer need to do that or design that. The viking believed, if I recall correctly, that the god Thor was the source of lightning. Now we know that is not true, and that it is a natural process.

But we are going off topic here.

 

[Atruthseeker]

Not really. For example, if I have a kid no one needs to design him or her, the way our reproductive system works will do that automatically.

The human egg is only one tenth of a millimeter across. the sperm is a hundred times smaller and yet they know how to find each other, combine and set of a series of events that will determine nearly everything in a person's development. Including external features, the biorythems, symmetry, all cellular interactions, hormone use and disposal, protein synthesis and breakdown, means to fight desease, personality styles, propensity toward certain deseases and life expectancy.

The head of the sperm containsy enzymes to break the the wall of the egg and set off chemical reactions that lead to fertilization. How does the sperm DNA even know how to link up with the egg's DNA. These things are automatic now becuase they were designed that way. All those steps are so complex as to be impossible to have come about by random mutations and trail and error. We'd have died out long ago.

If we are not desinged, you need to explain how such multiple, intertwining chemichal reactions came to be needed to accomplish every task in the body.

 

[DarkSun]

Nice one!

 

[Kerr]

The human egg is only one tenth of a millimeter across. the sperm is a hundred times smaller and yet they know how to find each other, combine and set of a series of events that will determine nearly everything in a person's development. Including external features, the biorythems, symmetry, all cellular interactions, hormone use and disposal, protein synthesis and breakdown, means to fight desease, personality styles, propensity toward certain deseases and life expectancy.

The head of the sperm containsy enzymes to break the the wall of the egg and set off chemical reactions that lead to fertilization. How does the sperm DNA even know how to link up with the egg's DNA. These things are automatic now becuase they were designed that way. All those steps are so complex as to be impossible to have come about by random mutations and trail and error. We'd have died out long ago.

If we are not desinged, you need to explain how such multiple, intertwining chemichal reactions came to be needed to accomplish every task in the body.

And I disagree, that something is complicated does not imply a creator or design. There are natural ways for this, and the more time pass by the more we learn about them. In any case, this is off topic.

 

[DarkSun]

In any case, this is off topic.

You mean Intelligent Design isn't related to homosexuality?

 

[Kerr]

You mean Intelligent Design isn't related to homosexuality?

Nope, it is not .

 

[DarkSun]

Nope, it is not .

But what if the Designer was gay?

Wait, no, scrap that one.