Augustus
…
While that may be true in modernity, religions have historically influenced 'science' (natural philosophy).
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Religion Has Nothing to Do With Science
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
While that may be true in modernity, religions have historically influenced 'science' (natural philosophy).
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
That's right to me. I think of 'science' to refer to the process of working to understand how nature works.
The good kind of religion is that which helps us with a profoundly different kind of goal -- to help us connect with the transcendent, which we might feel pulled somehow, subtly, to seek. (That's why a wise seeker would want to read the words of someone who knew the goal and the way completely, better than others, the Christ.)
gnostic
The Lost One
I would like to stress out the achievements of science came from the people, whether they follow regions or don’t follow any religion, through their respective works (learning, researching, investigating, discovering, testing, explaining).
Science don’t come from religious scriptures, eg Bible, Qur’an, etc. these so-called holy books have no scientific values.
The knowledge that were discovered by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Indians, Chinese, and so on, came from their explanations and their discoveries, and not by following any scripture.
We owed it these individuals’ works, and not to any religion or any respective scriptures.
Science don’t come from religious scriptures, eg Bible, Qur’an, etc. these so-called holy books have no scientific values.
The knowledge that were discovered by Muslims, Christians, Jews, Indians, Chinese, and so on, came from their explanations and their discoveries, and not by following any scripture.
We owed it these individuals’ works, and not to any religion or any respective scriptures.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What one means from a "Scientific Sign", please? If Science has defined such a "Scientific Sign", kindly quote from a textbook of Science or a peer-reviewed article published in a Scientific journal of repute, please.
Regards
Thank you for agreeing with me that imagination starts it all.
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Continued from post #99.
Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.
Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.
These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.
Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.
Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.
Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.
I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters [universes] out there within the eternal and boundless cosmos, each cluster=universe in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, where it is torn to pieces Molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole (Einstein Rosen Bridge) to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Electromagnetic energy is spewed out of a WHITE HOLE in the trillions and trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to continue on in its eternal process of evolution, and where the light from its previous position in Space would take billions of years to reach its new position.
Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.
Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.
These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.
Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.
Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld. Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.
Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous Big Bounce theory.
I would rather a theory which states that there are many galactic clusters [universes] out there within the eternal and boundless cosmos, each cluster=universe in its own position in Space-time, consisting of billions of Galaxies falling inward toward a Great Abyss, Black Hole, or Bottomless Pit, where it is torn to pieces Molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and reconverted into the electromagnetic energy from which they were created and accelerated along the dark worm hole (Einstein Rosen Bridge) to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that liquid like Electromagnetic energy is spewed out of a WHITE HOLE in the trillions and trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the eternal and boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy a new universe is created, or rather, the old universe is resurrected, to continue on in its eternal process of evolution, and where the light from its previous position in Space would take billions of years to reach its new position.
Clearly you do not understand the Quran however, since you want something to look up (and i am at work and bored) you should look up a video title "Quran on Embryology - Professor Keith L. Moore"
Can start a process
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There is no restriction on one if one quotes such information here please. Right, please?
Regards
Sorry, i do not understand what you mean. Can you please clarify?
gnostic
The Lost One
I am more familiar with the Bible, then with other scriptures from other religions.
Everything in Genesis 1 & 2, 6 to 8, and Job 38 to 41, are not science.
With god ranting how he did everything in Job 38 to 41 - “God did it” - and these passages explain nothing about nature.
Clearly it is made up story (book of Job), but for anyone to believe in any of the passages, will be like accepting silly superstitions.
Everything in Genesis 1 & 2, 6 to 8, and Job 38 to 41, are not science.
With god ranting how he did everything in Job 38 to 41 - “God did it” - and these passages explain nothing about nature.
Clearly it is made up story (book of Job), but for anyone to believe in any of the passages, will be like accepting silly superstitions.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
IMV
Religion deals with the untestable attributes of mankind and reality verified subjectively. Religion deals in objective proofs of such things.
Science requires hard evidence and physical testability.
Evidence should inform religion. Religion has nothing to offer the practice of science currently.
Good religion should provide good ethics and morals. Bad religion is common unfortunately. Some religions are effective.
Science does not often provide any moral or ethical basis for living life. Science is the power of knowledge. Science doesn't tell us how that power should be used.
Currently science and religion have nothing to do with each other. They are totally separate ways of knowing things.
Religion deals with the untestable attributes of mankind and reality verified subjectively. Religion deals in objective proofs of such things.
Science requires hard evidence and physical testability.
Evidence should inform religion. Religion has nothing to offer the practice of science currently.
Good religion should provide good ethics and morals. Bad religion is common unfortunately. Some religions are effective.
Science does not often provide any moral or ethical basis for living life. Science is the power of knowledge. Science doesn't tell us how that power should be used.
Currently science and religion have nothing to do with each other. They are totally separate ways of knowing things.
Augustus
…
That's not what many of them said.
While people just look at scripture and go 'wow! F = MA', science only occurs within a cultural context, and historically most cultural contexts have not been conducive to the development of modern scientific methodologies or 'wasting' scarce resources on acquiring knowledge that (for them) served no practical purpose.
For the Greeks, 'science' (natural philosophy) was linked with ethics and living the good life ('religious' purpose), later in Christian Europe it gained prestige through links to theology.
Religion certainly wasn't irrelevant to scientific progress as it was a significant part of people's worldviews.
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Continued from post #106.
The Great Attractor: what is this thing?
The smallest unit of galaxies out there is our local group, comprising the Milky Way, the Andromeda galaxy and about 50 others. The Local Group is in turn part of the Virgo Supercluster containing some 40,000 members. Beyond all this is an unseen object called the Great Attractor which is pulling the Milky Way and all else towards it at the terrific speed of 14 million mph. What is this thing, how far away is it, and what will happen when we reach it? No one knows.
Detailed observations of the galaxies around us indicate that there is superposed on the Hubble flow a large-scale streaming motion of about 600 km/s in the general direction of the constellation Centaurus.
This mass migration includes the Local Group, the Virgo Cluster, the Hydra--Centaurus Supercluster, and other groups and clusters for a distance of at least 60 Mpc up and downstream from us. It is as if a great river of galaxies (including our own) is flowing with a swift current of 600 km/s toward Centaurus.
Calculations indicate that ~1016 solar masses concentrated 65 Mpc away in the direction of Centaurus would account for this. This mass concentration has been dubbed the Great Attractor. Detailed investigation of that region of the galaxy cluster Abell 3627) finds 10 times too little visible matter to account for this flow, again implying a dominant gravitational role for unseen or dark matter. Thus, the Great Attractor is certainly there (because we see its gravitational influence), but the major portion of the mass that must be there cannot be seen in our telescopes.
Enoch, the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and who was anointed as his successor, was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing, not even the space in which the universe had existed.
In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.
According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a singular Schwarzschild black hole. In the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble theory of gravity, however, it forms a regular Einstein–Rosen bridge.
The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, the gravitational collapse of bigger stars can create a neutron star, or a Black Hole, depending on its mass, but not necessarily a Worm Hole.
A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travellers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.
But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, only the eternal energy, which can not be created and can never be destroyed, perhaps one day new technology may develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done. Wormholes may not only connect two separate regions within the universe, they could also connect two different universes.
The Great Attractor: what is this thing?
The smallest unit of galaxies out there is our local group, comprising the Milky Way, the Andromeda galaxy and about 50 others. The Local Group is in turn part of the Virgo Supercluster containing some 40,000 members. Beyond all this is an unseen object called the Great Attractor which is pulling the Milky Way and all else towards it at the terrific speed of 14 million mph. What is this thing, how far away is it, and what will happen when we reach it? No one knows.
Detailed observations of the galaxies around us indicate that there is superposed on the Hubble flow a large-scale streaming motion of about 600 km/s in the general direction of the constellation Centaurus.
This mass migration includes the Local Group, the Virgo Cluster, the Hydra--Centaurus Supercluster, and other groups and clusters for a distance of at least 60 Mpc up and downstream from us. It is as if a great river of galaxies (including our own) is flowing with a swift current of 600 km/s toward Centaurus.
Calculations indicate that ~1016 solar masses concentrated 65 Mpc away in the direction of Centaurus would account for this. This mass concentration has been dubbed the Great Attractor. Detailed investigation of that region of the galaxy cluster Abell 3627) finds 10 times too little visible matter to account for this flow, again implying a dominant gravitational role for unseen or dark matter. Thus, the Great Attractor is certainly there (because we see its gravitational influence), but the major portion of the mass that must be there cannot be seen in our telescopes.
Enoch, the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and who was anointed as his successor, was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing, not even the space in which the universe had existed.
In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.
According to general relativity, the gravitational collapse of a sufficiently compact mass forms a singular Schwarzschild black hole. In the Einstein–Cartan–Sciama–Kibble theory of gravity, however, it forms a regular Einstein–Rosen bridge.
The gravitational collapse of a single star such as the star of our solar system, can only form a White Dwarf, the gravitational collapse of bigger stars can create a neutron star, or a Black Hole, depending on its mass, but not necessarily a Worm Hole.
A worm Hole could theoretically be used as a method of sending information or travellers through space, unfortunately, physical matter which includes humans journeying through the space tunnels would appear to be an impossibility as there are strong indications that material objects travelling through a worm hole is forbidden by the law of physics.
But now that it has been discovered that Physical matter is but an illusion, and all is, only the eternal energy, which can not be created and can never be destroyed, perhaps one day new technology may develop a way to teleport bodies of energy along light beams and reconstruct them to their original form, with no damage done. Wormholes may not only connect two separate regions within the universe, they could also connect two different universes.
Religion without science and reason degenerates into superstition. Religion needs science and reason to protect it from the ignorant.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
I agree. The scientific method has by far been the most effective means we've found for determining how the universe works. Religions are simply what ignorant people use to pretend like they have answers.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
The Scientific Method fails in Religion, for obvious reasons. Right, please?
Regards
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Because the scientific method deals with REALITY and religions deal with FANTASY.
gnostic
The Lost One
I don’t doubt the historically cultural context play parts of science.
I also don’t deny that some philosophies also play part with science.
But it was still the works of people and not some imaginary gods or spirits in some scriptures or stories.
And most philosophies have nothing to do with natural philosophy, therefore have no values in science.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Yeah, two perspectives. Macro - the perceived, and Micro - the unperceived. I do accept them. Science measures them both, though as yet, not perfectly.I am sure you know what religions say about different realm of existence, it is this realm I am talking about, I know you not beliving in them but they are still there.Just because science can not measure them does not mean they do not exist
Non-physical means realm where living beings do not have or need a physical body like we humans need.
I would probably say the opposite. Use religious means to get a better understanding of science and use scientific means to get a better understanding of religion.
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