Religion is fundamentally divisive. That's not helping!

[Valjean]

I believe the Lord has other plans. Thank God!!! I believe all of existence will end before 2080 and begin again around 1980. However, I still do believe in keeping our planet healthy.

It will be reborn before it ends? That's some interesting physics.

 

[icehorse]

Magical thinking is an insult to my beliefs.

Well that's your choice of course. But I'm still curious to know how you separate the two?

 

[Valjean]

True, but keep one thing in mind: if you eliminated all the religions in the world right now, none of those problems would disappear. The reason for all the issues you listed is not religion. Bad management of resources comes from greed and corruption and the culprits are bad governments and corporations.
It's easy to say "religion is divisive, therefore religion is the problem". But being distracted from problems far greater than religion won't fix anything.

What if the religions have becomes minions of the bad governments and corporations?

 

[icehorse]

What is the better unifying category that we all can belong to (and don’t just say human as this is not a unifying category absent an alien invasion)?

We all need markers of identity, and religions are actually far more inclusive than most of the alternatives.

So what is the better and more inclusive marker of identity?

How about unifying around protecting the fragile environment that supports us?

 

[Valjean]

Right. Pollution began with the industrial revolution.

It began with the advent of civilization, but became a major problem with the assistance of industry and technology.

 

[Valjean]

To me it's sooooo far from magical. It is the truth but anyway as far as advice well, just keep on advancing technology to find other ways of transportation etc.

But how have you decided it's truth? You've admitted before that your opinions are based on gut feeling, rather than evidence. It's short-sighted and unregulated technology that's causing the problem.

Magical thinking is an insult to my beliefs.

From what I can see, magical thinking underlies your beliefs.
What are your beliefs based on, if not magic?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Religion is fundamentally divisive, not inclusive.

Except when and where it isn't.

 

[Augustus]

How about unifying around protecting the fragile environment that supports us?

That’s not how human group psychology seems to work. Environmental protection is just one part of a political ideology and political ideologies are divisive.

So to say religion is divisive, doesn’t make much sense unless there are alternatives than are less divisive.

Unfortunately, there don’t seem to be many.

(Religion is probably the most unifying force in human history, other than perhaps national identity)

 

[Jimmy]

But how have you decided it's truth? You've admitted before that your opinions are based on gut feeling, rather than evidence. It's short-sighted and unregulated technology that's causing the problem.

There’s just some things I know in life.

 

[Jimmy]

It began with the advent of civilization, but became a major problem with the assistance of industry and technology.

The stuff before industrial revolution was manageable

 

[Jimmy]

It will be reborn before it ends? That's some interesting physics.

You got that backwards.

 

[Jimmy]

Well that's your choice of course. But I'm still curious to know how you separate the two?

Not answering your loaded question.

 

[icehorse]

Except when and where it isn't.

Sure, but how does that forward this conversation? Does it all need to be black and white for you?

 

[Valjean]

What is the better unifying category that we all can belong to (and don’t just say human as this is not a unifying category absent an alien invasion)?

We all need markers of identity, and religions are actually far more inclusive than most of the alternatives.

So what is the better and more inclusive marker of identity?

Should our actions, votes or opinions be based on identity, or objective fact?
Are there varying "team facts?"

 

[icehorse]

That’s not how human group psychology seems to work. Environmental protection is just one part of a political ideology and political ideologies are divisive.

So to say religion is divisive, doesn’t make much sense unless there are alternatives than are less divisive.

Unfortunately, there don’t seem to be many.

(Religion is probably the most unifying force in human history, other than perhaps national identity)

I would agree that protecting the environment is often presented as a political ideology, but I think that's a category error, so we should recast it

As for religion being unifying - that was true when the world was bigger. Now that the world is so small, religion usually plays the role of divider.

 

[icehorse]

Not answering your loaded question.

Your beliefs must be on shaky ground if you cannot defend them, no?

Let me zoom out a bit: I'm a secular humanist. I believe that humans can solve their own problems without the need (or possibility), of supernatural intervention. Now I have to admit that that belief of mine is one that I cannot logically defend. I would be okay if you were to label that belief of mine as magical thinking.

 

[Jimmy]

your beliefs must be on shaky ground if you cannot defend them, no?

Nah, I’ve backed em up before.

 

[Jimmy]

your beliefs must be on shaky ground if you cannot defend them, no?

I’ve believed that for 15 years. So shaky? No

 

[icehorse]

I’ve believed that for 15 years. So shaky? No

persistent can be shaky

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Should our actions, votes or opinions be based on identity, or objective fact?
Are there varying "team facts?"

What objective facts are you speaking of?